Who Makes Extended Drain Oils And Filters?
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Amsoil. I'm using their Signature Series extended drain oil and their long life filters. You can order from their website and save 25% as a preferred customer. (Cheap yearly membership)
Shipped right to your door for free if your order is over $100.
Shipped right to your door for free if your order is over $100.
Just keep going with what you're already doing. M1 EP at Walmart is as inexpensive as you are going to get.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Just keep going with what you're already doing. M1 EP at Walmart is as inexpensive as you are going to get.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Yeah my Santa Fe going 535,000km on Amsoil is not proof enough that "Boutique" oils like Amsoil are good stuff. Oh yeah there is also my superb UOA's on my Journey.
![[Linked Image]](https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2017/12/full-22880-16874-report_2a.png "[Linked Image]")
Just keep going with what you're already doing. M1 EP at Walmart is as inexpensive as you are going to get.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Yeah my Santa Fe going 535,000km on Amsoil is not proof enough that "Boutique" oils like Amsoil are good stuff. Oh yeah there is also my superb UOA's on my Journey.
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You have nothing to compare it against, how do you know you wouldn't have gotten the exact same longevity after having used another brand of oil? This subject of discussion was what led to your previous meltdown and (temporary) exit from the forum, wasn't it?
There is no statistically relevant proof to show that a boutique oil gives extended longevity.
There is no statistically relevant proof to show that a boutique oil gives extended longevity.
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Hard to say … the site UOA expert just mentioned the 5.3L GM shows somewhat high iron on several types of oil and OCI … and yet it was not the BiL's 400k 5.3L (just Mobil bulk dino) on the way out … trans was …
You responded to a million mile member like he has nothing to show?
You responded to a million mile member like he has nothing to show?
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He was arguing that there is no proof that a boutique oil had any benefits and I provided what evidence I have that I think there is. Where is his proof showing otherwise?
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Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Ultra (12K?) not specified
Pennzoil Ultra is specified by Pennzoil not to be used for extended oil change intervals. So it does not belong on the list.
Show me exactly where on this link below that it says that. I'll be waiting...
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-ultra-platinum.html
16. Is Pennzoil Platinum® with PurePlus™ Technology for normal 10k miles OCI and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology for extended OCI up to 15k miles?
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Ultra is specified by Pennzoil not to be used for extended oil change intervals. So it does not belong on the list.
Show me exactly where on this link below that it says that. I'll be waiting...
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-ultra-platinum.html
16. Is Pennzoil Platinum® with PurePlus™ Technology for normal 10k miles OCI and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology for extended OCI up to 15k miles?
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/
Originally Posted by StevieC
He was arguing that there is no proof that a boutique oil had any benefits and I provided what evidence I have that I think there is. Where is his proof showing otherwise?
Correct, there isn't any. My many miles on mostly Mobil 1 aren't proof that M1 is superior to other oils in that regard, similar to you I may have gotten the same results using Supertech oil.
You've twisted the question around. The proof I was asking for was to show that Amsoil was responsible for your results. In that regard there isn't any.
He was arguing that there is no proof that a boutique oil had any benefits and I provided what evidence I have that I think there is. Where is his proof showing otherwise?
Correct, there isn't any. My many miles on mostly Mobil 1 aren't proof that M1 is superior to other oils in that regard, similar to you I may have gotten the same results using Supertech oil.
You've twisted the question around. The proof I was asking for was to show that Amsoil was responsible for your results. In that regard there isn't any.
Making a mileage statement would constitute a warranty and apparently Pennzoil is not willing to do so, for whatever reason.
Originally Posted by StevieC
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
I provided my UOA. You show me a UOA that has better numbers with a shelf-oil. I explained how I justified the UOA and that there is no long term tests so we have to wait and see if lower wear number makes a difference in the long run. You have to admit 4ppm of Iron and 0ppm of any other metal is excellent for 9K for any oil. That would speak to the quality of their products and that "should" lead to longer engine life.
I will tell you my Santa Fe was really hard on the oil and Hyundai wasn't what they are today in 2006 and I still manged to get a very good mileage out of that engine when many others failed long before that. The M1 didn't fare as well as the Amsoil did in terms of TAN and Nitration when I ran UOA's then which is why I made the switch.
535,000km with no oil consumption between changes is excellent for any engine let alone a Hyundai of that vintage.
Not sure how else I can prove it to you with all the evidence above this line. But one thing is clear you can't dismiss Amsoil as being "not worth the extra cost" because you have no proof yourself.
I will tell you my Santa Fe was really hard on the oil and Hyundai wasn't what they are today in 2006 and I still manged to get a very good mileage out of that engine when many others failed long before that. The M1 didn't fare as well as the Amsoil did in terms of TAN and Nitration when I ran UOA's then which is why I made the switch.
535,000km with no oil consumption between changes is excellent for any engine let alone a Hyundai of that vintage.
Not sure how else I can prove it to you with all the evidence above this line. But one thing is clear you can't dismiss Amsoil as being "not worth the extra cost" because you have no proof yourself.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
I provided my UOA. You show me a UOA that has better numbers with a shelf-oil. I explained how I justified the UOA and that there is no long term tests so we have to wait and see if lower wear number makes a difference in the long run. You have to admit 4ppm of Iron and 0ppm of any other metal is excellent for 9K for any oil. That would speak to the quality of their products and that "should" lead to longer engine life.
I will tell you my Santa Fe was really hard on the oil and Hyundai wasn't what they are today in 2006 and I still manged to get a very good mileage out of that engine when many others failed long before that. The M1 didn't fare as well as the Amsoil did in terms of TAN and Nitration when I ran UOA's then which is why I made the switch.
535,000km with no oil consumption between changes is excellent for any engine let alone a Hyundai of that vintage.
Not sure how else I can prove it to you with all the evidence above this line. But one thing is clear you can't dismiss Amsoil as being "not worth the extra cost" because you have no proof yourself.
That is pretty amazing, Stevie! I don't believe I have ever seen a better looking UOA than that one with around 9k on it. (is that kms or miles? Sorry if I missed it.)
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Ultra (12K?) not specified
Pennzoil Ultra is specified by Pennzoil not to be used for extended oil change intervals. So it does not belong on the list.
Show me exactly where on this link below that it says that. I'll be waiting...
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-ultra-platinum.html
... and ...
9. Are there any products suitable for extended drain in excess of manufacturer recommendation once outside of warranty e.g. 15,000 mile performance guaranteed like one of your competitors?
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain interval recommendations - these recommendations are made by engine manufacturers. So, if your engine manufacturer recommends 15,000 mile ODI, then we stand behind the 15,000 mile ODI. A potential advantage of using a high quality synthetic is to take better care of your engine and reduce deposit formation, which over time may reduce power, performance, and fuel economy -rather than extending the drain interval.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Ultra is specified by Pennzoil not to be used for extended oil change intervals. So it does not belong on the list.
Show me exactly where on this link below that it says that. I'll be waiting...
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_ca/products/full-synthetic-motor-oils/pennzoil-ultra-platinum.html
... and ...
9. Are there any products suitable for extended drain in excess of manufacturer recommendation once outside of warranty e.g. 15,000 mile performance guaranteed like one of your competitors?
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain interval recommendations - these recommendations are made by engine manufacturers. So, if your engine manufacturer recommends 15,000 mile ODI, then we stand behind the 15,000 mile ODI. A potential advantage of using a high quality synthetic is to take better care of your engine and reduce deposit formation, which over time may reduce power, performance, and fuel economy -rather than extending the drain interval.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/
This was kilometers. I did a sample. The lab marked it as "New Oil" as though I changed it. The reason I did it at this mileage was because Terry and I were trying to pinpoint the moisture reading in the KF water test his lab does. (To establish a trend)
Still 4ppm over 6K miles is exceptional with that high of a TBN still remaining.
I was about to do a 3rd UOA and it ended up totaled.
Still 4ppm over 6K miles is exceptional with that high of a TBN still remaining.
I was about to do a 3rd UOA and it ended up totaled.
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In reality there is no practical difference between boutique oils and major brand synthetics because both protect engines for the life of the vehicle. Internal engine wear is a not a common reason to retire a high mileage car. My last car had 270Kmi (435K km) and the rear air conditioning, hoses, brake lines, cruise control, exhaust manifold and rear wiper had all failed or would fail soon- and this from a major Japanese brand 12 year old car. The engine worked great, it still ran, but I wanted something functional and reliable.
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by kschachn
Just keep going with what you're already doing. M1 EP at Walmart is as inexpensive as you are going to get.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Yeah my Santa Fe going 535,000km on Amsoil is not proof enough that "Boutique" oils like Amsoil are good stuff. Oh yeah there is also my superb UOA's on my Journey.
There's a Toyota Tundra, a 2007 model I believe, that went 1 million miles on bulk TGMO from the dealer. Probably regular 5W-20 and OEM filter. The key to longevity is routine maintenance and care. There's plenty of Class 8 trucks that go millions of miles on plain old 15W-40 dino, and those engines are working harder than any passenger car engine could ever dream of!
Originally Posted by kschachn
Just keep going with what you're already doing. M1 EP at Walmart is as inexpensive as you are going to get.
Especially skip the boutique oils and their filters, there's zero proof you will get any more longevity out of your engine by using them.
Yeah my Santa Fe going 535,000km on Amsoil is not proof enough that "Boutique" oils like Amsoil are good stuff. Oh yeah there is also my superb UOA's on my Journey.
There's a Toyota Tundra, a 2007 model I believe, that went 1 million miles on bulk TGMO from the dealer. Probably regular 5W-20 and OEM filter. The key to longevity is routine maintenance and care. There's plenty of Class 8 trucks that go millions of miles on plain old 15W-40 dino, and those engines are working harder than any passenger car engine could ever dream of!
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Originally Posted by Patman
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Correct, in fact they are saying it is suitable as long as the manufacturer is making the recommendation. Pennzoil just does not wish to warrant the oil independently of the manufacturer for extended drains.
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Correct, in fact they are saying it is suitable as long as the manufacturer is making the recommendation. Pennzoil just does not wish to warrant the oil independently of the manufacturer for extended drains.
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