Who Makes Extended Drain Oils And Filters?
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I bought my F150 from the original owner in 2003 with 182k miles. He was good about changing the oil at the Castrol quick lube. Plain Castrol 10w-30 and whatever filter they used. Now I'm at 255k miles on Mobil1 (yearly changes) and no problems. Who knows but I think it's maintenance more than oil.
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
I agree demarpaint.
How the vehicle is run matters a WHOLE lot.
Originally Posted by StevieC
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
I agree demarpaint.
How the vehicle is run matters a WHOLE lot.
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I have it all. Frequent short trips in between customers, multiple restarts in the day without running up to proper temperature before being shut-off again, highway, tons and tons of stop-go of city traffic. If there was ever a case to be made I have them all covered.
Originally Posted by StevieC
I have it all. Frequent short trips in between customers, multiple restarts in the day without running up to proper temperature before being shut-off again, highway, tons and tons of stop-go of city traffic. If there was ever a case to be made I have them all covered.
I have it all. Frequent short trips in between customers, multiple restarts in the day without running up to proper temperature before being shut-off again, highway, tons and tons of stop-go of city traffic. If there was ever a case to be made I have them all covered.
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
I agree demarpaint.
How the vehicle is run matters a WHOLE lot.
More than most people want to believe. My buddy's car that I was referring to is a perfect example, he travels hours on end at 60-75mph, boring in fact. His UOA reflected that. Now to say that 4ppm of iron vs. 12 ppm of iron matters. LOL We'd have to know how much iron was contained when the engine was assembled, I haven't seen that data yet. I haven't seen any data reflecting how much iron is in a virgin engine, and I'll bet even two engines off the same assembly line are different. Sounds ridiculous? About as ridiculous as fighting over 8 ppm of iron.
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by StevieC
With a UOA like mine it shows that the engine is wearing at an extremely low rate. There are other 2.4L Chrysler engine UOA's here that don't contain all 0's and don't have 4ppm of Iron so they are wearing at a higher rate.
Yes this might amount to nothing in the long run because even 12ppm is nothing to worry about, however it depends on how long folks decide to keep the vehicle. For folks like me that want to squeeze as many possible miles out of the engine as possible it makes sense. Especially when off the shelf oil is about the same cost as Amsoil is here.
This is also a forum where everyone likes to obsess about the lowest wear rates possible and the absolute best engine protection. Well my UOA and my real world experience with my Santa Fe which was a high mile engine, is good evidence that choosing Amsoil would offer that if that is what you are looking for. What the OP has to decide is if the extra cost in the U.S. versus the insanely good deals for off the shelf oil warrants it in his opinion.
For you to come out and say to skip the boutique oils because there is no proof is not warranted. We can only go based on the evidence we have which is a trend in this case because no long term study was done with an off the shelf oil and Amsoil for example, to see which one yielded more miles. Both M1 and Amsoil have their million mile engines to claim but what I would like to see is a head to head comparison of the same engine under the same conditions with Amsoil, RP, M1, Castrol, Pennzoil to really put this to rest.
Until then we use UOA's and real world experiences and I have provided both and you have provided your opinion.
I think how the vehicle is driven has a lot to do with it too. Case in point, my buddy drives for his job, 60K miles or more a year. All highway driving under some of the best conditions. We discussed his UOA with Mobil 1, I recall his wear numbers were as good as they get. While the boutique oils are quite good, I think how the vehicle is used makes more of a difference than a boutique oil ever will. Keep in mind the difference from 4ppm to 12ppm in the grand scheme of things is nothing. When you can get two identical vehicles driven under identical test conditions, in every single regard, for several OCI's then maybe it would be worth arguing over, if there's much of a difference. I doubt that will ever happen. This reminds me of blanket statements often tossed out here, Dino oil can go X miles, and Synthetic can go Y miles, yet driving conditions are often left out of the equation.
With regard to how long a person keeps a vehicle, my van is 31 years old now, it had a boutique oil in it for one of those 31 years. I was curious.
I agree demarpaint.
How the vehicle is run matters a WHOLE lot.
More than most people want to believe. My buddy's car that I was referring to is a perfect example, he travels hours on end at 60-75mph, boring in fact. His UOA reflected that. Now to say that 4ppm of iron vs. 12 ppm of iron matters. LOL We'd have to know how much iron was contained when the engine was assembled, I haven't seen that data yet. I haven't seen any data reflecting how much iron is in a virgin engine, and I'll bet even two engines off the same assembly line are different. Sounds ridiculous? About as ridiculous as fighting over 8 ppm of iron.
I agree that for shorter OCI, brand usually does not matter. But it can...when I get to my computer I'll post up a set of UOAs from a previous vehicle, using different oils at ~5k mile interval.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. People need to see that.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. People need to see that.
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Yeah if I were to do a UOA. . It would very likely be boring. 90% of my driving is open highway speeds 63-79 mph. It is very easy on the motor and transmission. At 242k miles it has done very well. But that is due in large part to how I have run her.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
Exactly. Manufacturer recommendations are for the Sheeple. Here at BITOG as we all should know, a UOA tells when a vehicle's oil needs to be changed; not a calendar or other counter.
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
Originally Posted by JLTD
I agree that for shorter OCI, brand usually does not matter. But it can...when I get to my computer I'll post up a set of UOAs from a previous vehicle, using different oils at ~5k mile interval.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. Haters need to see that.
Thank you. And I tell you what I will do for the folks here... Once the Toyota is all broken in and I have my baseline Amsoil UOA's I will run a comparative run of some other brand 0w20 and see how it stacks up. My driving patterns are about the same from week to week and I will time the UOA when the temperatures are stable and not likely to affect the sample.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
Exactly. Manufacturer recommendations are for the Sheeple. Here at BITOG as we all should know, a UOA tells when a vehicle's oil needs to be changed; not a calendar or other counter.
I take what the maximum allowable limit is on a UOA and then add a buffer to that and use that as my UOA. Then sample periodically from there forward to keep a check on how the engine is doing and if any problems are developing like coolant in the oil.
I agree that for shorter OCI, brand usually does not matter. But it can...when I get to my computer I'll post up a set of UOAs from a previous vehicle, using different oils at ~5k mile interval.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. Haters need to see that.
Thank you. And I tell you what I will do for the folks here... Once the Toyota is all broken in and I have my baseline Amsoil UOA's I will run a comparative run of some other brand 0w20 and see how it stacks up. My driving patterns are about the same from week to week and I will time the UOA when the temperatures are stable and not likely to affect the sample.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
For me I throw the manufacturer recommended OCI and the oil manufacturer OCI out the window and let my UOA determine what is best.
No blanket statements, only what my driving pattern, fuel, and oil/filter choice dictate.
I take what the maximum allowable limit is on a UOA and then add a buffer to that and use that as my UOA. Then sample periodically from there forward to keep a check on how the engine is doing and if any problems are developing like coolant in the oil.
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Originally Posted by JLTD
I agree that for shorter OCI, brand usually does not matter. But it can...when I get to my computer I'll post up a set of UOAs from a previous vehicle, using different oils at ~5k mile interval.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. Haters need to see that.
^^^^^^^^
Very good post.
Especially about running the Amsoil for long, long runs. And the price is well worth it has well for StevieC has well.
Amsoil is a great oil. Zero doubt in my mind. Funny in a way yet true.. I can get Amsoil for about the same price as M1 AP. For that price... I'd go with the Amsoil.
I agree that for shorter OCI, brand usually does not matter. But it can...when I get to my computer I'll post up a set of UOAs from a previous vehicle, using different oils at ~5k mile interval.
I think Stevie's point is that the value of Amsoil is in extending the OCI. Using it for 5K miles is a waste, as is using most any modern synthetic for that short of an OCI.
BUT you cannot argue with his UOA results - they are fantastic. Perhaps a run on something non Amsoil would show the difference....or maybe the haters would then say there's not enough samples to be valid, [plus more statistical gobbledygook]
Stevie drives a lot of miles, uses an oil designed for long drains, AND lives in Canada where, he has stated numerous times, Amsoil is the same or cheaper than off the shelf brands. The oil he has chosen offers fantastic UOAs and saves him money since it is extended drain capable. If someone had the same usage pattern and results with another oil that was more "popular", they would be applauded. Haters need to see that.
^^^^^^^^
Very good post.
Especially about running the Amsoil for long, long runs. And the price is well worth it has well for StevieC has well.
Amsoil is a great oil. Zero doubt in my mind. Funny in a way yet true.. I can get Amsoil for about the same price as M1 AP. For that price... I'd go with the Amsoil.
Welcome, and thank you -- it will be interesting to see any differences. Are you waiting for out-of-warranty to extend intervals or will you do so earlier?
Originally Posted by JLTD
Welcome, and thank you -- it will be interesting to see any differences. Are you waiting for out-of-warranty to extend intervals or will you do so earlier?
They call for 16,000km (10K miles) under normal driving circumstances and 8,000km (5K miles) under severe duty so I expect the oil to handle longer OCI's no problem. I will see what the UOA says. There is no OLM in this vehicle. My Journey OLM would go off at 13,000km and my UOA trend looked like I could go as far as 20,000km (12K miles) but I never was able to get that far in my UOA's before the accident.
I usually keep it conservative until the first UOA and during the break-in period so as to flush out all the break-in wear out of there and protect me should something go wrong on such a new engine. Then once the UOA is done and a couple others to establish a trend I start pushing the envelope on OCI.
So for now 8,000km (5K miles) for a couple of changes and then push it out from there. Some might ask why I don't use a cheaper oil in the meantime. Because honestly the price difference isn't enough to change to something else and then change to Amsoil later and I might as well take advantage of the add-pack in Amsoil in the meantime. Especially in a Direct Injection engine.
As for using a non-licensed API oil during the warranty period I'm not sure they would bark at spotlessly clean engine internals if something were to happen. It's typically the ones showing heavy varnish and sludging that tips them off to the fact that maintenance wasn't performed. At least from what I hear from my dealer friends here.
This is the Toyota oil statement in my manual which leaves grey area.
Engine Oil Selection: (Page 654 of the Highlander Manual)
Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use Toyota approved "Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity.
Oil grade: ILSAC GF-5 multigrade engine oil viscosity: SAE 0W-20
SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.
So the "or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity" makes no mention of it needing to be API licensed.
Welcome, and thank you -- it will be interesting to see any differences. Are you waiting for out-of-warranty to extend intervals or will you do so earlier?
They call for 16,000km (10K miles) under normal driving circumstances and 8,000km (5K miles) under severe duty so I expect the oil to handle longer OCI's no problem. I will see what the UOA says. There is no OLM in this vehicle. My Journey OLM would go off at 13,000km and my UOA trend looked like I could go as far as 20,000km (12K miles) but I never was able to get that far in my UOA's before the accident.
I usually keep it conservative until the first UOA and during the break-in period so as to flush out all the break-in wear out of there and protect me should something go wrong on such a new engine. Then once the UOA is done and a couple others to establish a trend I start pushing the envelope on OCI.
So for now 8,000km (5K miles) for a couple of changes and then push it out from there. Some might ask why I don't use a cheaper oil in the meantime. Because honestly the price difference isn't enough to change to something else and then change to Amsoil later and I might as well take advantage of the add-pack in Amsoil in the meantime. Especially in a Direct Injection engine.
As for using a non-licensed API oil during the warranty period I'm not sure they would bark at spotlessly clean engine internals if something were to happen. It's typically the ones showing heavy varnish and sludging that tips them off to the fact that maintenance wasn't performed. At least from what I hear from my dealer friends here.
This is the Toyota oil statement in my manual which leaves grey area.
Engine Oil Selection: (Page 654 of the Highlander Manual)
Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use Toyota approved "Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity.
Oil grade: ILSAC GF-5 multigrade engine oil viscosity: SAE 0W-20
SAE 0W-20 is the best choice for good fuel economy and good starting in cold weather.
If SAE 0W-20 is not available, SAE 5W-20 oil may be used. However, it must be replaced with SAE 0W-20 at the next oil change.
So the "or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity" makes no mention of it needing to be API licensed.
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What's with the namecalling?. Completely uncalled for. I linked to Pennzoil company's own Q&A section in this very forum, BITOG. Are you going to call them liars too? Pennzoil said they do not stand behind anything longer a standard oil change interval that recommended by the mfr. The topic of this post is "Extended drain oils". Extended drain means beyond what the mfr recommends, and Pennzoil says they don't. Castrol Edge does, Mobil 1 does, Amsoil does, vecause they are extended drain oils: Pennzoil does not. They even claim their benefit is other stuff "rather than extending the drain interval". QED
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by wdn
Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology are extremely robust formulations, but lubricant marketers do not set oil drain intervals. Drain interval recommendations are made by engine manufacturers.
That does not say what you claim it says. It does not say that the oil is not suitable for extended intervals. Stop spreading lies.
Yes, and that is the common sense definition of extended oil interval. Several other companies do make a mileage statement so it was funny for Pennzoil to say that oil marketers do not set intervals because other do set intervals, like 15,000 miles or 20,000 and guarantee it. One of the question in the Pennzoil Q&A is do you have a product that goes beyond manufacturer's recommendation for oil change, and their answer is No.
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
Originally Posted by zrxkawboy
IMHO an extended drain interval would be one that is longer than mfr-recommended
Patman
Staff member
I don't think what I said to you is uncalled for at all. You are twisting Pennzoil's words to satisfy your own agenda against them, and therefore you are in fact a liar. If you don't like it, stop spreading lies in the first place.
Half a dozen of one, six of the other. The ball was in Pennzoil's court and it seems they just don't want to play.
.
.
Sorry it took a bit, life intruded on BITOG
Here's the series of analyses I was talking about. The column headers are lined up properly on my screen, hopefully that translates to other platforms. The Amsoil was all Signature Series.
As you may note, all the oils are pretty similar at ~5000 mile/8000km interval. Also of note, M1 produced a LOT more iron and I recall it did the same on other samples I took from this engine. These were from a Jeep 4.0, known for putting out a lot of iron, but serves to illustrate that things are pretty close statistically at 5000 miles.
..................................................... AMS 5w30................ST Syn 5w30...VWB 5w30...M1 0w30...AMS 10w30..AMS10w30
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Lq053og.png "[Linked Image]")
How about some analysis:
Oil...................................Iron ppm per 1000 miles.........Aluminum per 1000 miles
AMS 5w30.................................3.84........................................0.80
ST Syn 5w30.............................3.42........................................0.76
VWB(now Daily Protection).......4.27........................................0.40
M1.............................................10.42......................................0.63
AMS 10w30...............................6.08 (at 10k)...........................0.39
AMS 10w30...............................5.875 (at 8k)...........................0.37
Hmmm out of these oils it looks like maybe I should have been using ST Syn in this engine. It was giving the least wear ppm and still had good TBN (3.8) at over 5000 miles so could have made it probably 7500. But since I was driving about 30,000 miles / 48,000km per year it made sense to try and use an extended drain oil...this was very early on in my OCI extension/testing phase so the distances were pretty conservative.
Again I'm just posting this to back up my assertion that at a short distance just about any oil will give decent results and that the value of Amsoil is going much longer distances. I didn't even scratch the potential of the Amsoil 10w30 - at 10k miles and still at 2.7 TBN it could probably have gone the distance all the way to 15k+ miles, especially since TBN depletion isn't linear. The M1 could easily have gone 10k, and the other oils 7500 miles, even the dino VWB.
As you may note, all the oils are pretty similar at ~5000 mile/8000km interval. Also of note, M1 produced a LOT more iron and I recall it did the same on other samples I took from this engine. These were from a Jeep 4.0, known for putting out a lot of iron, but serves to illustrate that things are pretty close statistically at 5000 miles.
..................................................... AMS 5w30................ST Syn 5w30...VWB 5w30...M1 0w30...AMS 10w30..AMS10w30
How about some analysis:
Oil...................................Iron ppm per 1000 miles.........Aluminum per 1000 miles
AMS 5w30.................................3.84........................................0.80
ST Syn 5w30.............................3.42........................................0.76
VWB(now Daily Protection).......4.27........................................0.40
M1.............................................10.42......................................0.63
AMS 10w30...............................6.08 (at 10k)...........................0.39
AMS 10w30...............................5.875 (at 8k)...........................0.37
Hmmm out of these oils it looks like maybe I should have been using ST Syn in this engine. It was giving the least wear ppm and still had good TBN (3.8) at over 5000 miles so could have made it probably 7500. But since I was driving about 30,000 miles / 48,000km per year it made sense to try and use an extended drain oil...this was very early on in my OCI extension/testing phase so the distances were pretty conservative.
Again I'm just posting this to back up my assertion that at a short distance just about any oil will give decent results and that the value of Amsoil is going much longer distances. I didn't even scratch the potential of the Amsoil 10w30 - at 10k miles and still at 2.7 TBN it could probably have gone the distance all the way to 15k+ miles, especially since TBN depletion isn't linear. The M1 could easily have gone 10k, and the other oils 7500 miles, even the dino VWB.
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