When will "He has a smart phone, he is financially irresponsible" be over?

[Garak]

Originally Posted by PandaBear
Wow, still not locked yet?

No reason to lock it, at least not yet. Politics has been avoided. Alarmguy is simply cheerleading for Huawei and I'm simply slamming every cell phone company on the planet.

He's happy with competition, and that's not relevant for me since it's a product in which I have no interest to buy, irrespective of brand. All I know is I had to go down another tech support rabbit hole today for someone who is a "user" of cell phones and is supposedly of the "technically proficient" generation and clean up a needless mess, simply because they have no concept of what they're doing with their devices much less understand why certain security protocols are in place.

No wonder no one robs banks any longer. All you have to do is send out enough emails and people will give you their banking information.

 

[alarmguy]

I enjoyed this thread, it was civil and respectful of other viewpoints.

I saved an article on google and privacy, eye opening. Will post the link next week.
Really amazes me that people dont care about placing microphones in their homes, for googles computers to listen in, track what they do, watch and say to each other in the entire family, even their childrens actions, then sell it off to companies who bid on the information, blows my mind. all in the name of free...

Simply amazes me, this story details it all...

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
I enjoyed this thread, it was civil and respectful of other viewpoints.

I saved an article on google and privacy, eye opening. Will post the link next week.
Really amazes me that people dont care about placing microphones in their homes, for googles computers to listen in, track what they do, watch and say to each other in the entire family, even their childrens actions, then sell it off to companies who bid on the information, blows my mind. all in the name of free...

Simply amazes me, this story details it all...



You do realize it's not actually recording right? It's just listening for keywords to trigger it. There was a murder once where there was a device like that in the home and the police were going to try and subpoena the recordings, but they've all said that they don't actually have any recordings so there's nothing to subpoena. Now it's possible that someone in the future may hack into your system and be able to capture that microphone and redirect it, but that's probably not something a normal person would need to worry about. Plus do you realize how many terrabytes of storage it would take to record all those people all the time?

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
I enjoyed this thread, it was civil and respectful of other viewpoints.

I saved an article on google and privacy, eye opening. Will post the link next week.
Really amazes me that people dont care about placing microphones in their homes, for googles computers to listen in, track what they do, watch and say to each other in the entire family, even their childrens actions, then sell it off to companies who bid on the information, blows my mind. all in the name of free...

Simply amazes me, this story details it all...



You do realize it's not actually recording right? It's just listening for keywords to trigger it. There was a murder once where there was a device like that in the home and the police were going to try and subpoena the recordings, but they've all said that they don't actually have any recordings so there's nothing to subpoena. Now it's possible that someone in the future may hack into your system and be able to capture that microphone and redirect it, but that's probably not something a normal person would need to worry about. Plus do you realize how many terrabytes of storage it would take to record all those people all the time?

The Amazon Alexa does record audio, and saves it. You can go to the app and listen to it.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201602040

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
I enjoyed this thread, it was civil and respectful of other viewpoints.

I saved an article on google and privacy, eye opening. Will post the link next week.
Really amazes me that people dont care about placing microphones in their homes, for googles computers to listen in, track what they do, watch and say to each other in the entire family, even their childrens actions, then sell it off to companies who bid on the information, blows my mind. all in the name of free...

Simply amazes me, this story details it all...



You do realize it's not actually recording right? It's just listening for keywords to trigger it. There was a murder once where there was a device like that in the home and the police were going to try and subpoena the recordings, but they've all said that they don't actually have any recordings so there's nothing to subpoena. Now it's possible that someone in the future may hack into your system and be able to capture that microphone and redirect it, but that's probably not something a normal person would need to worry about. Plus do you realize how many terrabytes of storage it would take to record all those people all the time?

The Amazon Alexa does record audio, and saves it. You can go to the app and listen to it.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201602040


You do realize that even though it records your interactions with it, it doesn't actually record everything you're saying. It's only listening for trigger words and then it records your interactions afterwards. You can also order it to record something. But it's not listening and saving everything you're saying. It would take up too much space. When I worked in IT, we had an explicit policy where we would destroy our data backups after a year with our tape backup rotations so that if there was ever a subpoena, you can't subpoena what doesn't exist. The point is the same, you can have a murder in your home and Alexa/Google home won't have a recording of it unless you explicitly activate it. There's a difference between listening and recording.

 

[hatt]

I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


It never recording everything which was the original claim. Otherwise it's duh, of course it's recording your commands, Voice recognition still requires training and it needs a sample in order to get it right, the larger the sample size, the more accurate it is.

Some people just don't get technology.

 

[hatt]

People get technology just fine. It will be abused. Information companies have an information gathering device in your house. They're going to get the most out of it. It's no different than the DNA collecting businesses. The have a valuable database and decided to start selling info to the government. As the tech advances they'll be selling it to whomever can use it and will pay. The big telecoms do the same thing. You have to be an idiot to think companies built to gather information on you aren't going to collect it to use.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by hatt
People get technology just fine. It will be abused. Information companies have an information gathering device in your house. They're going to get the most out of it. It's no different than the DNA collecting businesses. The have a valuable database and decided to start selling info to the government. As the tech advances they'll be selling it to whomever can use it and will pay. The big telecoms do the same thing. You have to be an idiot to think companies built to gather information on you aren't going to collect it to use.


And the sky is blue. What makes you think people don't already know that and agree it to it by buying it? That's their choice and they're fine with it. They don't fear the abuse part in a free country. Maybe if you lived in China, there'd be more of a cause for concern.

 

[hatt]

Wow.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


Your paranoia is justified. Bet the first (next?) step would be talking about someone's health problems then getting all sorts of specific targeted prescription drug ads all over. This already happens with doing internet searches.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


Your paranoia is justified. Bet the first (next?) step would be talking about someone's health problems then getting all sorts of specific targeted prescription drug ads all over. This already happens with doing internet searches.

Your life and health insurance company will be glad to have that info. Creditors too. The potential revenue streams are endless.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


Your paranoia is justified. Bet the first (next?) step would be talking about someone's health problems then getting all sorts of specific targeted prescription drug ads all over. This already happens with doing internet searches.


Do the people who are paranoid and delusional know that they are?

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/paranoia-and-delusional-disorders

 

[hatt]

Bless your heart.

 

[SZR48207]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


Your paranoia is justified. Bet the first (next?) step would be talking about someone's health problems then getting all sorts of specific targeted prescription drug ads all over. This already happens with doing internet searches.


Do the people who are paranoid and delusional know that they are?

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/paranoia-and-delusional-disorders



I pray you'll eat crow some day. Humans are not as benevolent as you may want to believe, so that you can sleep comfortably at night.

Also: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/samsung-smart-tv-spying/

(whether the device be a Google Home, Alexa device, or Samsung TV -- it's all one and the same for the sake of intelligence gathering)

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Reddy45
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by eljefino
Originally Posted by hatt
I see we're making progress. At first it didn't record, now it just doesn't record everything. Next will be the secret trigger words and the file you can't see.


Your paranoia is justified. Bet the first (next?) step would be talking about someone's health problems then getting all sorts of specific targeted prescription drug ads all over. This already happens with doing internet searches.


Do the people who are paranoid and delusional know that they are?

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/conditions/paranoia-and-delusional-disorders



I pray you'll eat crow some day. Humans are not as benevolent as you may want to believe, so that you can sleep comfortably at night.

Also: https://www.cnet.com/how-to/samsung-smart-tv-spying/

(whether the device be a Google Home, Alexa device, or Samsung TV -- it's all one and the same for the sake of intelligence gathering)


How would that make any sense? You actually want it to happen? People cry about the sky falling all the time. And they prep for the Zombie apocalypse. Do you really expect that to happen? You're more likely to get killed in a car crash, crossing the street or just from regular cancer and heart attacks.

The paranoid and delusional tend to be the most outspoken. You actually want to silence the voice of reason?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Wolf359
And the sky is blue. What makes you think people don't already know that and agree it to it by buying it? That's their choice and they're fine with it. They don't fear the abuse part in a free country. Maybe if you lived in China, there'd be more of a cause for concern.

It isn't just government one has to fear with respect to privacy. The technology providers are the real problem, not to mention the hackers. None of these devices offer me the slightest incentive to even consider taking those minute risks. Run it open source, then we might talk. Until then, not a chance.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by Wolf359
And the sky is blue. What makes you think people don't already know that and agree it to it by buying it? That's their choice and they're fine with it. They don't fear the abuse part in a free country. Maybe if you lived in China, there'd be more of a cause for concern.

It isn't just government one has to fear with respect to privacy. The technology providers are the real problem, not to mention the hackers. None of these devices offer me the slightest incentive to even consider taking those minute risks. Run it open source, then we might talk. Until then, not a chance.


Some people live their whole lives in fear. Others don't.

 

[Garak]

It's not about fear. It's about managing risk, and, more than fear, about absolutely despising a certain business model. A product has to do something that I want to have done, before I'll even consider it. For instance, I've never seen the need in yelling at a crappy little speaker in an effort to hear the weather or a song I like. That's not fear. That's disdain. The risks are only the icing on the cake.

Give me an open source cell phone where I have control over how I compute, and we'll talk. Neither Apple nor Google get to decide how I use technology or media.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by Garak
It's not about fear. It's about managing risk, and, more than fear, about absolutely despising a certain business model. A product has to do something that I want to have done, before I'll even consider it. For instance, I've never seen the need in yelling at a crappy little speaker in an effort to hear the weather or a song I like. That's not fear. That's disdain. The risks are only the icing on the cake.

Give me an open source cell phone where I have control over how I compute, and we'll talk. Neither Apple nor Google get to decide how I use technology or media.

People long ago decided to be the product instead of just using the products.