When will "He has a smart phone, he is financially irresponsible" be over?

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... trade secrets, blah, blah blah, do whatever makes one happy.

All I am saying is you all buy stuff from China, so buy the stuff you want and dont buy the stuff you dont want, but lets not play like we are taking a higher ground for the good of our country by not getting a China Company made phone because that is all B.S.

Your typing on made in China computers, going to your made in china refrigerator, watching your made in China TV, doing your [censored], every component in your car is made in China too and chances are every electric and electronic device in your home is too, even if they are America, Korean or Japanese companies.

The whole nation sold out to China a long time ago, I DO THINK IT SHOULD STOP, just dont single out one phone company and pretend you are doing anything to stop China from taking over the world, thats a laugh, more so when you permit American companies to produce their products in China and resell them to you!

The day your ready to cut out all China products and the companies that manufacture their products in China, then come talk to me and I will gladly join all of you.
But to think for a second, Huawei is alone in stealing our technology is laughable, they all are. But we allow it to happen.

Anyway, Ill enjoy my $229. Mate SE which looks, acts better then any phone on the market at almost any price and performs almost as good as any phone costing hundreds of dollars more for a non "power" user.
While using my unlimited EVERYTHING ATT phone service, less then $53 for 2 lines including all taxes. :eek:)

Im all for, cutting trade with China but until you stop buying American products made in China, Ill go directly to the source and bypass the American companies.
Huawei is the second largest cell phone maker in the world in case you dont know, only Samsung sells more phones.
 
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My real point was why do you give Huawei a free pass for doing what Google does, plus more? This isn't even about country of origin. They're all made over there. I get that. I don't care if Apple or Huawei or Google or Samsung or Motorola or Blackberry opens a factory tomorrow on the border between Saskatchewan and North Dakota and sources their telephones entirely of domestic products and feeds their workforce with North Dakota cattle and Saskatchewan bread. I'm not going to buy it unless the cell phone business model changes. I won't use it if they give it to me for free. Similarly, if Huawei comes out with a telephone with free and open software and operating system tomorrow, I'd consider buying it.

Incidentally, cost isn't that much of an issue. I could easily have one of my businesses pay for a cell phone for me. I'm not interested.

If you're concerned about privacy, Huawei won't help you. They'll do worse than Google. Apple is just as bad as Google. I have friends and business colleagues who are getting a little upset because I put my foot down on them over issues of proprietary software. It's gotten to the point where I simply refuse to tinker with data I present to them because they need it in a proprietary format or because their phone doesn't have an "app" for that. If they can't handle the technology and prefer to be trained chimps rather than real users, I'm not going to cater to that.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy
... trade secrets, blah, blah blah, do whatever makes one happy.

All I am saying is you all buy stuff from China, so buy the stuff you want and dont buy the stuff you dont want, but lets not play like we are taking a higher ground for the good of our country by not getting a China Company made phone because that is all B.S.

Your typing on made in China computers, going to your made in china refrigerator, watching your made in China TV, doing your [censored], every component in your car is made in China too and chances are every electric and electronic device in your home is too, even if they are America, Korean or Japanese companies.


Well the China made computers aren't running Chinese OS or have Chinese firmware. The refrigerator, the car or whatever isn't wired to the internet. Basically it's Chinese spying by a communist government. Because they censor their internet, by law all Chinese companies are required to cooperate with the government, no taking it up with the supreme court over privacy.

It's always funny watching hackers connected to classified systems in the movies, those systems aren't connected to the internet.

But yeah, I get it, everyone else does it and it's cheaper. .
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
... trade secrets, blah, blah blah, do whatever makes one happy.

All I am saying is you all buy stuff from China, so buy the stuff you want and dont buy the stuff you dont want, but lets not play like we are taking a higher ground for the good of our country by not getting a China Company made phone because that is all B.S.

Your typing on made in China computers, going to your made in china refrigerator, watching your made in China TV, doing your [censored], every component in your car is made in China too and chances are every electric and electronic device in your home is too, even if they are America, Korean or Japanese companies.


Well the China made computers aren't running Chinese OS or have Chinese firmware. The refrigerator, the car or whatever isn't wired to the internet. Basically it's Chinese spying by a communist government. Because they censor their internet, by law all Chinese companies are required to cooperate with the government, no taking it up with the supreme court over privacy.

It's always funny watching hackers connected to classified systems in the movies, those systems aren't connected to the internet.

But yeah, I get it, everyone else does it and it's cheaper. .


Yeah, pretty much everything is wired to the Internet and made in China, routers, modems, even refrigerators, every home video camera, every home doorbell camera, never mind the endless supply of China made NVRs and DVRs in businesses and homes.

There are privacy laws in the USA, not half as strong as Europe's but maybe we will get there one day.
and ...
Lets be careful about fake news, spying ect. Its EASY to throw accusations out there, lets see the proof in court.
I mean, even Apple and Google devices have recordings stored on their servers of your family in everyday conversation. This information is used.

BTW = just talking here, not in anyway arguing, quite honestly, China is a huge Evil Empire building up its military with the money we give them, MY GOD, stupid, but every corporation in the USA builds their stuff there and turns around and sells it to you. THe heck with that, until things change Ill buy directly from them.

and ... google is just as and more evil then ANY China company, using your family information to generate profits off you and your kids, including skewing search results based on profiles of your family. Everyone on your block can google a specifc topic using the exact same words, lets say something really important for our country, you will all get back results google will think is best for you instead of straight information, its censored for your family.
Why duckduckgo.com will open your eyes to other results.

What if companies in China had a complete, history of date and time for the entire life of your Android phone of everyplace you have ever been to with it?
Plus it will map it out for you! Every place you ever went. Well, google has that information and its for everyone who has your gmail password to see.

How about every conversation in your home with your "smart" speaker? Google has it and you cant actually request the files.

ANyway, just having fun here, there is no privacy unless you turn off all this crap and American companies collect far more on you then any China Device.
 
Originally Posted by Garak
My real point was why do you give Huawei a free pass for doing what Google does, plus more? This isn't even about country of origin. They're all made over there. I get that. I don't care if Apple or Huawei or Google or Samsung or Motorola or Blackberry opens a factory tomorrow on the border between Saskatchewan and North Dakota and sources their telephones entirely of domestic products and feeds their workforce with North Dakota cattle and Saskatchewan bread. I'm not going to buy it unless the cell phone business model changes. I won't use it if they give it to me for free. Similarly, if Huawei comes out with a telephone with free and open software and operating system tomorrow, I'd consider buying it.

Incidentally, cost isn't that much of an issue. I could easily have one of my businesses pay for a cell phone for me. I'm not interested.

If you're concerned about privacy, Huawei won't help you. They'll do worse than Google. Apple is just as bad as Google. I have friends and business colleagues who are getting a little upset because I put my foot down on them over issues of proprietary software. It's gotten to the point where I simply refuse to tinker with data I present to them because they need it in a proprietary format or because their phone doesn't have an "app" for that. If they can't handle the technology and prefer to be trained chimps rather than real users, I'm not going to cater to that.


Again, Im just having fun talking here, no way a nasty conversation which is hard to convey sometimes in a forum.

Your post is what I refer to as fake news and that is the problem with forums, someone will read you post and start to believe it.
Where on earth did you form the opinion that Huawei invades your privacy more then google? Competely, completely, completely false, not even close! No such thing.

"If you're concerned about privacy, Huawei won't help you. They'll do worse than Google." = Again, completely false.

Google is the information king gate keeper, this whole Huawei as bad a google is laughable, not a shred of proof Huawei tracks, stores every place you go with your phone, every conversation in your home like google does.

Its scary when people start believing things based on nothing. But for google, its all right in front of everyone, no one cares.
Yet, it can be stopped, people too lazy, first thing is stop using googles "free" products. Gee, thats easy to do, might even open peoples eyes has to how much they have on you, for gods sake, its their business and profit model, they wouldnt make money if they didnt sell your information!

Huawei and Apple MAKE PRODUCTS for profit, google gives you stuff that spies on you/your family and they sell your information for profit. Now they even SKEW your search results!

Just having fun here! But, again, LAUGHABLE to make a false statement about Huawei being as evil as google, NO ONE IS as evil as google and there is ZERO proof against Huawei spying on American families, yet google even knows when you are having sex with your wife..
 
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Remember that Huawei phones and other Huawei products (they do far more than cell phones) can gather all that information Google does as well. They can sell it for a profit, too. The way Huawei wants to integrate themselves into cell networks right now, they would be able to get at as much information as Google can.

Again, I don't rely on or trust Apple, Google, Huawei, Samsung, Motorola, or any of them. My statement about evil isn't false. It's an opinion. Evil is in the eye of the beholder. I'm not satisfied with the actions of any of these companies, so simply don't support them. I don't want Huawei's spying hardware. I don't want them selling their hardware to our utilities. I don't want Apple's proprietary software model for music, telephones, or computers. I don't want Google's spyware or search engine.

Also note that just because Google sells your information because they have to to make a profit doesn't mean that others don't do the same thing. It's been going on since before Google existed.

Irrespective of company, no open source, no buy from me.
 
Originally Posted by oldmaninsc
I myself like to go to restaurants that do NOT have several tvs mounted on the wall ( IHOP, Soup Plantation, etc.)


The same reason airlines give you free movies to watch: they don't need to spend money with staffing dealing with customers requesting things ALL THE TIME.

Distract them, so they stay still and behave, pocket the savings.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Wolf359
As for the panhandler with a phone, it's pretty surprising how cheap a smartphone and plan are these days.
month.


Probably a few panhandlers sitting at the end of the interstate off ramp with a cardboard sign saying "Need money for an iPhone XS Max".


Most pan handlers these days have cars. CARS! to live in.

I know a janitor working 2 full time jobs (day and night), and nap between them in a Cadillac Escalade, because it is cheaper than housing. He lives in Stockton and work in Cupertino, so he only goes home during the weekend. I was originally thinking that he was wasteful, but after hearing his story I think he is probably one of the few people on earth that "need" a nice SUV.
 
Originally Posted by alarmguy

Again, Im just having fun talking here, no way a nasty conversation which is hard to convey sometimes in a forum.

Your post is what I refer to as fake news and that is the problem with forums, someone will read you post and start to believe it.
Where on earth did you form the opinion that Huawei invades your privacy more then google? Competely, completely, completely false, not even close! No such thing.

"If you're concerned about privacy, Huawei won't help you. They'll do worse than Google." = Again, completely false.

Google is the information king gate keeper, this whole Huawei as bad a google is laughable, not a shred of proof Huawei tracks, stores every place you go with your phone, every conversation in your home like google does.

Its scary when people start believing things based on nothing. But for google, its all right in front of everyone, no one cares.
Yet, it can be stopped, people too lazy, first thing is stop using googles "free" products. Gee, thats easy to do, might even open peoples eyes has to how much they have on you, for gods sake, its their business and profit model, they wouldnt make money if they didnt sell your information!

Huawei and Apple MAKE PRODUCTS for profit, google gives you stuff that spies on you/your family and they sell your information for profit. Now they even SKEW your search results!

Just having fun here! But, again, LAUGHABLE to make a false statement about Huawei being as evil as google, NO ONE IS as evil as google and there is ZERO proof against Huawei spying on American families, yet google even knows when you are having sex with your wife..


It's not Huawei that's evil, it's the communist government that controls things in China. They have a thing called censorship and they're well know to spy and steal secrets from other countries. Try actually reading the wiki instead of making baseless claims.

I can't decide if you're just a troll, russian troll or chinese troll. .

Here's the link to the wiki again and feel free to read the other 293 articles linked for reference on them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huawei

And here's the link about how Cisco settled out of court with them and how they had blatantly copied their source code.

https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2216692/cisco-upbraids-huawei-over-source-code-copying-claims
 
Yup, Huawei is screwed in the commercial sector of the USA/Canada, they will change their ways or just ignore this part of the world, being they are the second largest manufacturer or smart phones in the world without the USA and Canada it just means they can clean up their act and become the largest or stay second in the world and ignore us.

Bottom line, they are the same and any company in China, stealing our trade secrets, infringing on patents, doesnt matter, its the wild west to them and they can get away with it so they do it, much like any large American company does when they can get away with it as history has proven.

Good news for me and other smart people, we get KILLER PHONES at awesome prices that blow away anything on the market for HUNDREDS and hundreds of dollars less then the competition.... :eek:)

Latest Huawei News - however it has nothing to do with the consumer of their phones

Just the typical stealing of corporate secrets ya da ya da, they all do it if they can get away with it. As far as China, Americans are fools for thinking they are a friendly country, they are here to steal everything they can from us and build up their military to one day threaten us. But Ill still buy their products as long as Apple and EVERY freaking company in the USA builds stuff there and resells it to Americans at GROSSLY high markups, I rather buy it from a company in China then at a cost of 1/4 of the American labeled product.
 
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Originally Posted by alarmguy
Just the typical stealing of corporate secrets ya da ya da, they all do it if they can get away with it. As far as China, Americans are fools for thinking they are a friendly country, they are here to steal everything they can from us and build up their military to one day threaten us. But Ill still buy their products as long as Apple and EVERY freaking company in the USA builds stuff there and resells it to Americans at GROSSLY high markups, I rather buy it from a company in China then at a cost of 1/4 of the American labeled product.


Do you realize that you sound like a guy that buys stolen goods and complains that Walmart is ripping you off because they don't sell it for the same stolen price?

The reasons that their markups are high is because they actually have to pay someone to create their software and technology instead of stealing it from another company.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Just the typical stealing of corporate secrets ya da ya da, they all do it if they can get away with it. As far as China, Americans are fools for thinking they are a friendly country, they are here to steal everything they can from us and build up their military to one day threaten us. But Ill still buy their products as long as Apple and EVERY freaking company in the USA builds stuff there and resells it to Americans at GROSSLY high markups, I rather buy it from a company in China then at a cost of 1/4 of the American labeled product.


Do you realize that you sound like a guy that buys stolen goods and complains that Walmart is ripping you off because they don't sell it for the same stolen price?

The reasons that their markups are high is because they actually have to pay someone to create their software and technology instead of stealing it from another company.


Apple has 250 billion dollars in cash. Huawei has 70 billion in cash. Huawei also holds the highest amount of patents for 5G technology and within the next year will be the number one producer of cell phones in the world.

I'm in no way defending them so you perception of what I'm posting is wrong. All I am saying is I'm using that product because to me it's just a superior as an iPhone at four times the cost.

I'm also a person who buys American when I can but let's not be ignorant to the fact that these cell phone companies such as Apple are producing their products in China and making a massive profit off of them by selling the product back to US citizens.

As far as I'm concerned we should not be producing anything in China because they using our money to build their military into a superpower which we will have to deal with one day.
 
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Ownership of a cellphone is no longer and has not been for a long time been a status symbol or a sign of belonging to the middle class. Most homeless have cell phones. Since you have worked in cellphone development, can you tell me why grammar and spell check features have been poorly implemented on these devices? I'd like to appear smarter than I am.

Originally Posted by PandaBear
So yes, I am working in tech and I've done some smart phone development, so I'm biased and probably living the upper middle class lives.

But still, this is 2018 and you can buy a cheap used smart phone for $100, or $50 if you don't care about brand and will sign on the carrier's plan, and the cheapest unlimited data plan at throttled speed is around $20 in a family plan.

So why are we still calling people with an iPhone or whatever cheapest smart phone "financially well off and whinning"? It is much cheaper than the cheapest home internet (i.e. DSL) that starts at $40. It is like complaining about people spending money on water and electricity and gas and trash bill every month just because you can also play games on it (nobody complains about people using Blackberry or Palm Pilot back in the days).

Complaining about new car lease, I can understand, but new car is very different from a phone.

p.s. please don't pull in political discussion here, I'm just ranting about these ranting and anti-ranting on phones?
 
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Huawei is going to have more problems than just Canada and the States. They've been excluded from Australian upgrades, as well, and other countries. Now, this isn't all about cell phones. Huawei wants to upgrade infrastructure as a contractor.
 
Wow, still not locked yet?

Anyways, Huawei made most of their sales in their own, India, and Africa in the equipment market, they were never selling into the developed world to begin with. So they didn't really lose much. Also they are a lot cheaper (i.e. at least 50% less), so if the "fair trade" happens, be careful what you wish for, because many companies selling overpriced equipment will be out of business. (i.e. Cisco)

On the cell phone front, they are not trying to grab the loss leader market, and they are not spending the money in marketing like Samsung and Apple are. They are good phones but not the best or the cheapest, and they decided early on they probably won't win the US consumers anyways so they just didn't bother entering. ZTE and Motorola did much better but still aren't making money selling phones like Apple and Samsung are.

India's market have switched from Samsung to Huawei and Xiaomi, and that gave Samsung a huge headache.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Ownership of a cellphone is no longer and has not been for a long time been a status symbol or a sign of belonging to the middle class. Most homeless have cell phones. Since you have worked in cellphone development, can you tell me why grammar and spell check features have been poorly implemented on these devices? I'd like to appear smarter than I am.


I don't know, I wrote firmware so that's not really something I know.

My guess would be it is a statistic thing and teens love to type in their grammar and spelling. We are just too old to understand that's the norm now.
 
Originally Posted by PandaBear
Wow, still not locked yet?

Anyways, Huawei made most of their sales in their own, India, and Africa in the equipment market, they were never selling into the developed world to begin with. So they didn't really lose much. Also they are a lot cheaper (i.e. at least 50% less), so if the "fair trade" happens, be careful what you wish for, because many companies selling overpriced equipment will be out of business. (i.e. Cisco)

On the cell phone front, they are not trying to grab the loss leader market, and they are not spending the money in marketing like Samsung and Apple are. They are good phones but not the best or the cheapest, and they decided early on they probably won't win the US consumers anyways so they just didn't bother entering. ZTE and Motorola did much better but still aren't making money selling phones like Apple and Samsung are.

India's market have switched from Samsung to Huawei and Xiaomi, and that gave Samsung a huge headache.


Good post and I am am not rooting for any corporation from ANY country. Competition is good and that is what I want ... bottom line is, however Huawei did it, it may force lower prices from Samsung and Apple one day. For gods sake who the heck takes out loans for a telephone? $1000 for a device you can leave behind on a counter in a store someplace, or drop into the road or pool. People are nuts. Huawei does make some expensive phones too but their low priced phones are also truly amazing in looks and performance.

Depends on what these companies want, 2 years ago I didnt even know the name Huawei, now they are the second biggest seller of phones in the world and hold many 5g technology patents, nothing to sneeze at. Predictions are, in the coming year they will also overtake Samsung and become the largest producer of phones in the world.
Sooner or later we will all have to deal with China, that is the sad part, at the same time, big corporations get greedy, its their job, to produce huge profits for their stock holders, I think we are at the point with Apple that the decline has started, too expensive, too greedy and people are realizing, its just a phone.
 
Without getting into the geopolitical side of things, here's some of the industry / market news I've seen (many are "censored" in the US so you don't see it).

Samsung and TSMC got big not just by hard work, they do get help from some major banks' connection. One I saw in Taiwan's new is this bank call "World Bank", for something in the single digit billions.

Equipment market is always geopolitical influenced, like power plants and aircraft purchases, it is never about price performance alone. There is a reason why Japanese airlines are flying ONLY BOEING.

Many technologies and companies start with military then converts to civilians, some start with civilians with governments supports. When they get big they will form this connection and becomes too big to fail, it is the same no matter which country.

One of the companies that everyone hates to sponsor due to monopoly is Qualcomm, so in a way many nations want to play Qualcomm / Samsung / Huawei / others as multiple sources to avoid gouging.


This is as non political as I can say, hope this doesn't offend anyone.
 
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