the best carry guy is the one that goes bang everytime. a mouse gun that goes bang is better than a .50gi that goes click...
What's the best all-around carry handgun?
- Thread starter TheLoneRanger
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: Nephets
the best carry guy is the one that goes bang everytime. a mouse gun that goes bang is better than a .50gi that goes click...
That's one main reason I like .357 mag revolvers for home defense purposes.
i've thought about a wheelie in .357 as a bug for my everyday carry. leos would love me when i pull over, two guns, one folder and one fixed blade... yay!
Originally Posted By: Nephets
the best carry guy is the one that goes bang everytime. a mouse gun that goes bang is better than a .50gi that goes click...
That's one main reason I like .357 mag revolvers for home defense purposes.
i've thought about a wheelie in .357 as a bug for my everyday carry. leos would love me when i pull over, two guns, one folder and one fixed blade... yay!
40 or a 10mm if size is not a issue
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Glock 19
What he said.
Glock 19
What he said.
Originally Posted By: Pete591
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Ah the myth of the all mighty .45ACP
It all boils down to this equation when it comes to caliber stopping power and shear force which is all about penetration and HP expansion.
Kinetic Energy (Brutal Impact Force) = 1/2 MV squared
KE is expressed in Joules and one Joule is what it takes to launch a tennis ball to the speed of 20 mph. So one Joule is a lot!
- A Buffalo Bore +P .45 ACP has a KE of 165 million Joules of Energy and this is the max. for this caliber for all practical purposes under SAMI loading specs.
- FBI says that "fast and light" 155 gr .40 S&W rounds traveling 1,150 ft/sec are most effective in this caliber and also at the SAMI max for this caliber. That's 102 MIllion Joules of Energy.
-9 mm 124 +P+ at 1,250 ft/sec will give 97 Million Joules of Energy and this would be a SAMI max with the +P+ as well for this caliber.
In summary:
- .45 ACP 230 gr +P = 165 Million Joules
-.40 S&W 155 gr = 102 MIllion Joules
-9 mm 124 gr +P+ = 97 MIllion Joules
So Winchester Lawman 124 gr +P+ is just as capable (powerful as in KE and field performance with this round) as the .40 S&W 155 gr rounds used by LE and available commercially as well. It even expands to about the same wound channel too. Glocks etc will not maybe like a "steady diet" of +P+ but they are designed to take it. I have used this myself and it is not much hotter in feel than a +p.
The .45 ACP is a big jump from both the SAMI max's and KE of the 9mm and the .40 S&W. (Also now called the "short and wimpy" by some LE guys these days. The .45 ACP has 60% more energy and that means it has the potential to penetrate better (FBI says lack of penetration is what gets you killed the fastest)/expand better (so you get max penetration and wound channel without shooting through) and all this finally translates into stopping
a perp. on drugs who dosen't feel pain and is not in shock of being shot.
Just the facts! It's why the military just ordered thousands of 1911's to replace Beretta's and .40 Sigs and so did the FBI Elite Forces. It's a learning curve through everyday experience I would imagine.
Just my .02
Your equation for Kinetic Energy (KE) is correct (i.e., KE = 1/2 M*V^2), however your numbers for the kinetic energy of various rounds are all wrong. NO handgun fires a projectile with a muzzle energy in the MJ (Mega Joule, i.e millions of Joules) range. If you fired a handgun with a muzzle energy of a hundred Mega Joules (MJ), the gun would be vaporized, the recoil would blast you backwards a mile or two and you'd either be vaporized yourself in the process or reduced to a pile of bloody goo.
A .45 ACP will generally have a muzzle energy around 440 Joules (give or take). A 9mm will have a muzzle energy around 460 Joules (also give or take). That said, kinetic energy isn't the last word, there are several different other variables in play. For one, the muzzle energy isn't as important as how much energy is delivered into the target. For instance, if you shoot someone with a 9mm Luger with a FMJ round there is a decent chance that the lighter/faster FMJ bullet will over penetrate and go out the backside of the bad guy. In this case you might only deliver 60% of the available kinetic energy into the target. The other thing to consider is how the delivered kinetic energy translates into tissue damage.
In general, the larger slower rounds like the .45 ACP do seem to have a *slight* advantage in translating delivered kinetic energy into wound trauma (when talking about rounds with roughly similar kinetic energy at the target), though the difference is less that most .45 ACP aficionados would like to admit. Early on, the 9mm got something of a bad reputation in this country since in the early days most people were shooting either FMJ or JHP rounds that were not specifically designed for the 9mm's projectile weight and velocity (and consequently expanded very poorly or just fragmented into many little pieces). Now that excellent 9mm JHP is readily available these early problems have been by and large resolved.
Given correct ammo for a 9mm Luger, I think that they can perform in the same league as the .45 ACP and they do have some advantages in ease of carry/concealment and recoil, while on the other hand I would give the edge to the .45 ACP in terms of sheer "intimidation factor". I personally would not feel under armed with either class of weapon and I sure as heck wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either gun.
BTW, for future reference it is most common in the U.S. to see muzzle energy given in ft*lbs (foot pounds). The conversion factor for ft*lbs to Joules is 1:1.356, i.e. 1 ft*lb equals 1.356 Joules.
-Scott
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Ah the myth of the all mighty .45ACP
It all boils down to this equation when it comes to caliber stopping power and shear force which is all about penetration and HP expansion.
Kinetic Energy (Brutal Impact Force) = 1/2 MV squared
KE is expressed in Joules and one Joule is what it takes to launch a tennis ball to the speed of 20 mph. So one Joule is a lot!
- A Buffalo Bore +P .45 ACP has a KE of 165 million Joules of Energy and this is the max. for this caliber for all practical purposes under SAMI loading specs.
- FBI says that "fast and light" 155 gr .40 S&W rounds traveling 1,150 ft/sec are most effective in this caliber and also at the SAMI max for this caliber. That's 102 MIllion Joules of Energy.
-9 mm 124 +P+ at 1,250 ft/sec will give 97 Million Joules of Energy and this would be a SAMI max with the +P+ as well for this caliber.
In summary:
- .45 ACP 230 gr +P = 165 Million Joules
-.40 S&W 155 gr = 102 MIllion Joules
-9 mm 124 gr +P+ = 97 MIllion Joules
So Winchester Lawman 124 gr +P+ is just as capable (powerful as in KE and field performance with this round) as the .40 S&W 155 gr rounds used by LE and available commercially as well. It even expands to about the same wound channel too. Glocks etc will not maybe like a "steady diet" of +P+ but they are designed to take it. I have used this myself and it is not much hotter in feel than a +p.
The .45 ACP is a big jump from both the SAMI max's and KE of the 9mm and the .40 S&W. (Also now called the "short and wimpy" by some LE guys these days. The .45 ACP has 60% more energy and that means it has the potential to penetrate better (FBI says lack of penetration is what gets you killed the fastest)/expand better (so you get max penetration and wound channel without shooting through) and all this finally translates into stopping
a perp. on drugs who dosen't feel pain and is not in shock of being shot.
Just the facts! It's why the military just ordered thousands of 1911's to replace Beretta's and .40 Sigs and so did the FBI Elite Forces. It's a learning curve through everyday experience I would imagine.
Just my .02
Your equation for Kinetic Energy (KE) is correct (i.e., KE = 1/2 M*V^2), however your numbers for the kinetic energy of various rounds are all wrong. NO handgun fires a projectile with a muzzle energy in the MJ (Mega Joule, i.e millions of Joules) range. If you fired a handgun with a muzzle energy of a hundred Mega Joules (MJ), the gun would be vaporized, the recoil would blast you backwards a mile or two and you'd either be vaporized yourself in the process or reduced to a pile of bloody goo.
A .45 ACP will generally have a muzzle energy around 440 Joules (give or take). A 9mm will have a muzzle energy around 460 Joules (also give or take). That said, kinetic energy isn't the last word, there are several different other variables in play. For one, the muzzle energy isn't as important as how much energy is delivered into the target. For instance, if you shoot someone with a 9mm Luger with a FMJ round there is a decent chance that the lighter/faster FMJ bullet will over penetrate and go out the backside of the bad guy. In this case you might only deliver 60% of the available kinetic energy into the target. The other thing to consider is how the delivered kinetic energy translates into tissue damage.
In general, the larger slower rounds like the .45 ACP do seem to have a *slight* advantage in translating delivered kinetic energy into wound trauma (when talking about rounds with roughly similar kinetic energy at the target), though the difference is less that most .45 ACP aficionados would like to admit. Early on, the 9mm got something of a bad reputation in this country since in the early days most people were shooting either FMJ or JHP rounds that were not specifically designed for the 9mm's projectile weight and velocity (and consequently expanded very poorly or just fragmented into many little pieces). Now that excellent 9mm JHP is readily available these early problems have been by and large resolved.
Given correct ammo for a 9mm Luger, I think that they can perform in the same league as the .45 ACP and they do have some advantages in ease of carry/concealment and recoil, while on the other hand I would give the edge to the .45 ACP in terms of sheer "intimidation factor". I personally would not feel under armed with either class of weapon and I sure as heck wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either gun.
BTW, for future reference it is most common in the U.S. to see muzzle energy given in ft*lbs (foot pounds). The conversion factor for ft*lbs to Joules is 1:1.356, i.e. 1 ft*lb equals 1.356 Joules.
-Scott
Last edited:
I would love to have one of those haha.. Is it just the lighting or is that 2nd from last round missing a primer? I thought for a good while on getting a 4" 627 Tracker, but even .38 special is enough more expensive than 9mm for target practice.
I'm carrying an SR9 right now, but if I'd thought it through more I probably would have gone with a G19. Would have been a little lighter, easier to conceal and more accurate.
Been looking into the P11 as mentioned earlier in this thread. I like that it accepts S&W 59 series 15 round mags. There are even 20 and 30 round 59 series extended mags. Not sure how well those would work, but I've read a positive review of a 20 round extended mag used in a P11.
I never noticed that before, It must be the lighting because I fired those rounds some time ago.
I don't currently carry, but when I did it was a snub nose .357.
I guess now a days, anything that you shoot well and can comfortably carry is a good option.
I'm liking some of the newer 9mm models like the Kahr PM9.
I guess now a days, anything that you shoot well and can comfortably carry is a good option.
I'm liking some of the newer 9mm models like the Kahr PM9.
Digital2k2,
A G19 is no more accurate then it's competition. Actually mine was less accurate until I put a Hogue grip sleeve on it.
A G19 is no more accurate then it's competition. Actually mine was less accurate until I put a Hogue grip sleeve on it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
454 Casull, Those are my own handloads, 360gr WLNGC over 24 grains of IMR 4227. I actually do carry it when visiting my brother in Montana, he lives in Grizzly country
I'm Canadian, I haven't even HEARD of that calibre! LMAO!
I have, its actually been out for quite along time. Freedom Arms makes some very fine single action revolvers in this caliber.
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
454 Casull, Those are my own handloads, 360gr WLNGC over 24 grains of IMR 4227. I actually do carry it when visiting my brother in Montana, he lives in Grizzly country
I'm Canadian, I haven't even HEARD of that calibre! LMAO!
I have, its actually been out for quite along time. Freedom Arms makes some very fine single action revolvers in this caliber.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
I dont know how so many of you like the composite Glocks and their knock offs. They feel like I'm holding a gyroscope in my hand.
I like the S&W .40 Cal for most people in most situations as far as caliber goes.
I think I like them because I started off shooting my dad's G17
back in 1988. Everyone not in the "GLOCK Camp" complains about the grip angle being unnatural, and uncomfortable, but I find the opposite is true. I find the grip angle of a 1911 very uncomfortable. To each their own I guess.
I dont know how so many of you like the composite Glocks and their knock offs. They feel like I'm holding a gyroscope in my hand.
I like the S&W .40 Cal for most people in most situations as far as caliber goes.
I think I like them because I started off shooting my dad's G17
back in 1988. Everyone not in the "GLOCK Camp" complains about the grip angle being unnatural, and uncomfortable, but I find the opposite is true. I find the grip angle of a 1911 very uncomfortable. To each their own I guess.
Originally Posted By: oil_spaz
Also back to the OPs question:
There is no wrong answer. Totally an individual decision. The important thing is that you are comfortable and confident with your weapon.
I am carrying a Ruger LCR now. It suits me.
+1
Also back to the OPs question:
There is no wrong answer. Totally an individual decision. The important thing is that you are comfortable and confident with your weapon.
I am carrying a Ruger LCR now. It suits me.
+1
I have one as my "All the time gun" I have a Kel-Tec P-3AT.
I put in a pocket holster, and in my pocket it goes.
It's so small and light I forget that I'm carrying it.
Here is a link to what it looks like:
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/p3at.htm
It's what I carry when I can't, or don't want to bring one of my Glocks.
I'll post pics of my guns soon.
Justin
I put in a pocket holster, and in my pocket it goes.
It's so small and light I forget that I'm carrying it.
Here is a link to what it looks like:
http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/p3at.htm
It's what I carry when I can't, or don't want to bring one of my Glocks.
I'll post pics of my guns soon.
Justin
I think it's because of the way the safety works and people are not use to using it. My dad tried it once and shot great and fell in love with it, but others that have no real trigger control or experience could have a problem. Also when one holds the handgun on the meatier part of their hands it IMO provides a more stable platform and performance on target is tighter.
It's already been mentioned, the best carry gun is the one that you will carry. I'd start off with a lower cost pistol (380,9mm,38) and get a good feel for what you are willing to carry all the time. I found for all the time carry that small is good and a big gun like a 1911 can be stuffed between the seat and console.
- Status
