In 8 days, I'm going to be taking a 450 mile round trip in my Jeep, towing my camper. Just the trip itself is going to use 45 gallons of gas. That doesn't include two days of trail riding
What happened to the low gas prices?
- Thread starter grampi
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Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Grampi, how much should gas be in your opinion? 99cents a gallon? It's 2016 and gas is cheaper than last year at this time.
Depends on the price of crude. When crude is $50/bbl, gas shouldn't be $2.69...when it's $100/bbl, then I could see it being that high...
Its priced at what people are willing to pay...Thats the way its always been. Shame on me for defending the free enterprise system.
So you're okay with their unethical practices?
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Grampi, how much should gas be in your opinion? 99cents a gallon? It's 2016 and gas is cheaper than last year at this time.
Depends on the price of crude. When crude is $50/bbl, gas shouldn't be $2.69...when it's $100/bbl, then I could see it being that high...
Its priced at what people are willing to pay...Thats the way its always been. Shame on me for defending the free enterprise system.
So you're okay with their unethical practices?
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If OPEC can control supply they would love to keep it low to get higher price for their crude oil, but they didn't have control of the supply side that why crude oil went from $100+ a barrel to less than $30 few months ago and it is back up a little to about $50.
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
If OPEC can control supply they would love to keep it low to get higher price for their crude oil, but they didn't have control of the supply side that why crude oil went from $100+ a barrel to less than $30 few months ago and it is back up a little to about $50.
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
Gramp, there is so many "unethical" practices nowdays that it's not worth raising the ol blood pressure.I simply drive less and ride my high end bike. When gas gets really high I change my gas consumption.
Grampi, companies, or groups of companies, try to put each other out of business all the time. Sometimes that's by flooding the market. Other times, it's simply dropping the prices, if that's something they're capable of doing all on their own. Walmart didn't get the permeation it has in the States by pricing higher than the competition. They attempted to bankrupt many of their competitors. In fact, they succeeded splendidly.
Hello Garak!!!!
Capitalism is regulated (or not as the case may be in some situations) by laws, not ethics.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Grampi, companies, or groups of companies, try to put each other out of business all the time. Sometimes that's by flooding the market. Other times, it's simply dropping the prices, if that's something they're capable of doing all on their own. Walmart didn't get the permeation it has in the States by pricing higher than the competition. They attempted to bankrupt many of their competitors. In fact, they succeeded splendidly.
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Grampi, companies, or groups of companies, try to put each other out of business all the time. Sometimes that's by flooding the market. Other times, it's simply dropping the prices, if that's something they're capable of doing all on their own. Walmart didn't get the permeation it has in the States by pricing higher than the competition. They attempted to bankrupt many of their competitors. In fact, they succeeded splendidly.
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
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Gramp, this thread can't be helping your high blood pressure!!!
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Gramp, this thread can't be helping your high blood pressure!!!
I think Grampi has a pretty good live...He can worry about issues that don't exist.
Gramp, this thread can't be helping your high blood pressure!!!
I think Grampi has a pretty good live...He can worry about issues that don't exist.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Do you have a reference to "national security issues"?
You answered before that you pay less in health insurance and the like than your peers...who are also exposed to the same fuel prices.
Do you want a special "fuel pension" to go with it ?
That's what it sounds like.
Rural...I'm semi rural in Oz, have no access to public transport to work, BUT pay thousands less per year in not servicing mortgages of places that would get me door to door public transport.
Public transport...is that largely paid by someone else too ?
If enough of my peers were prepared to pay someone to drive us to work, hang around 8 hours, then drive us home we could.
Problem is that fuel's too cheap, and we can't afford to pay that guy, nor his bus.
Re national security, when the push comes to shove, you need to produce your war effort materials, and you can't pick them up at said walmart, so the fact that your military suppliers aren't machining mix-masters in peace time and they plastic ones come in through Walmart IS national security...even if you ignore the fact...and especially IF you claim that gasoline prices ARE national security.
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Do you have a reference to "national security issues"?
You answered before that you pay less in health insurance and the like than your peers...who are also exposed to the same fuel prices.
Do you want a special "fuel pension" to go with it ?
That's what it sounds like.
Rural...I'm semi rural in Oz, have no access to public transport to work, BUT pay thousands less per year in not servicing mortgages of places that would get me door to door public transport.
Public transport...is that largely paid by someone else too ?
If enough of my peers were prepared to pay someone to drive us to work, hang around 8 hours, then drive us home we could.
Problem is that fuel's too cheap, and we can't afford to pay that guy, nor his bus.
Re national security, when the push comes to shove, you need to produce your war effort materials, and you can't pick them up at said walmart, so the fact that your military suppliers aren't machining mix-masters in peace time and they plastic ones come in through Walmart IS national security...even if you ignore the fact...and especially IF you claim that gasoline prices ARE national security.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Sure, it does, in fact just the same way. It's just spun a different way. The entire economy is a national security issue, if you want to spin it that way. If every Walmart shuttered up tomorrow, there would be some pretty uncomfortable consequences, until others took up the slack.
And with fuel prices, the market checks itself; that's the whole point. $7 a gallon fuel right now would be unsustainable; I agree completely. So would $0.50 a gallon fuel. Take a look at a certain jurisdiction in eastern Canada that has fuel pricing controls by the province. The stations have to get permission to raise their prices. If they don't get the permission to raise fuel to where they want, or don't get that permission quickly enough, they simply shut the pumps off altogether. And, even out west here, as I mentioned with the Petro-Canada matter, it's clear they weren't charging enough for gasoline since they ran out, right?
I don't like higher gas prices, either. But, there is only so much I can do, and I either choose to take those actions (drive less, quit driving, drive something more fuel efficient, find a vehicle with alternative fuels), or I don't.
Hey, qwerty! What's gas prices in Chicago? How about at your locale right now, grampi? Here, we're paying over $4 a gallon. It's high, but I'm not fearing a national security disaster. By the way, gasoline is just another commodity. Humanity existed before gasoline. We will exist after gasoline fades into the history books.
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Sure, it does, in fact just the same way. It's just spun a different way. The entire economy is a national security issue, if you want to spin it that way. If every Walmart shuttered up tomorrow, there would be some pretty uncomfortable consequences, until others took up the slack.
And with fuel prices, the market checks itself; that's the whole point. $7 a gallon fuel right now would be unsustainable; I agree completely. So would $0.50 a gallon fuel. Take a look at a certain jurisdiction in eastern Canada that has fuel pricing controls by the province. The stations have to get permission to raise their prices. If they don't get the permission to raise fuel to where they want, or don't get that permission quickly enough, they simply shut the pumps off altogether. And, even out west here, as I mentioned with the Petro-Canada matter, it's clear they weren't charging enough for gasoline since they ran out, right?
I don't like higher gas prices, either. But, there is only so much I can do, and I either choose to take those actions (drive less, quit driving, drive something more fuel efficient, find a vehicle with alternative fuels), or I don't.
Hey, qwerty! What's gas prices in Chicago? How about at your locale right now, grampi? Here, we're paying over $4 a gallon. It's high, but I'm not fearing a national security disaster. By the way, gasoline is just another commodity. Humanity existed before gasoline. We will exist after gasoline fades into the history books.
grampi will never cease being unhappy unless & until he becomes the Hugo Chavez of the USA.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Do you have a reference to "national security issues?
Re national security, when the push comes to shove, you need to produce your war effort materials, and you can't pick them up at said walmart, so the fact that your military suppliers aren't machining mix-masters in peace time and they plastic ones come in through Walmart IS national security...even if you ignore the fact...and especially IF you claim that gasoline prices ARE national security.
I think you are one of the smartest guys here. But you are highly politically motivated for some reason I can't understand. It just blows me away when you come up with stuff like this. And i'm not going to even try to reason with this. Except to say, if you don't have energy, you can't do anything.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Irrelevant comparisons. The success or failure of Walmart, or their competitors has no bearing on our national security. Gas/diesel prices, and its availability does...it's not just another commodity...
Do you have a reference to "national security issues?
Re national security, when the push comes to shove, you need to produce your war effort materials, and you can't pick them up at said walmart, so the fact that your military suppliers aren't machining mix-masters in peace time and they plastic ones come in through Walmart IS national security...even if you ignore the fact...and especially IF you claim that gasoline prices ARE national security.
I think you are one of the smartest guys here. But you are highly politically motivated for some reason I can't understand. It just blows me away when you come up with stuff like this. And i'm not going to even try to reason with this. Except to say, if you don't have energy, you can't do anything.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
If OPEC can control supply they would love to keep it low to get higher price for their crude oil, but they didn't have control of the supply side that why crude oil went from $100+ a barrel to less than $30 few months ago and it is back up a little to about $50.
Originally Posted By: grampi
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
OPEC may flood the market, or they couldn't limit their production the last couple years and coupled with shale oil production in US went up substantial the last few years did flood the market with oil, it is hard to say which way.
But, can you explain why crude oil and gasoline went down substantial in 2008-2009 ? Crude oil was $140 in 2008 and dropped to less than $30 in 1 year, why didn't OPEC control the supply to keep the oil price at $100 or higher ? Do you want I post the oil price chart of the last 15-20 years ?
Some years ago OPEC had some control of oil market, but lately they didn't have any control at all.
If OPEC can control supply they would love to keep it low to get higher price for their crude oil, but they didn't have control of the supply side that why crude oil went from $100+ a barrel to less than $30 few months ago and it is back up a little to about $50.
Originally Posted By: grampi
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
OPEC may flood the market, or they couldn't limit their production the last couple years and coupled with shale oil production in US went up substantial the last few years did flood the market with oil, it is hard to say which way.
But, can you explain why crude oil and gasoline went down substantial in 2008-2009 ? Crude oil was $140 in 2008 and dropped to less than $30 in 1 year, why didn't OPEC control the supply to keep the oil price at $100 or higher ? Do you want I post the oil price chart of the last 15-20 years ?
Some years ago OPEC had some control of oil market, but lately they didn't have any control at all.
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
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I looked back and I don't see anyone believing or promoting what you say. You've done this before, resort to that sort of statement when you have things explained to you but you have no response or you don't wish to believe it.
One of your big hangups is the crack spread and I know many people have attempted to explain that to you too and have produced data to show how it is where it is today.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
One of your big hangups is the crack spread and I know many people have attempted to explain that to you too and have produced data to show how it is where it is today.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
I know what I can and can't control.
I can't control what oil companies do. But I can control what I drive and how much I drive.
So I control what I can control and don't sweat what I cannot control.
If I think a business is making "too much" money, I buy their stock. After all, why not further my financial picture.
If you think big oil is making too much, buy stock and get a share of the profits.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
I can't control what oil companies do. But I can control what I drive and how much I drive.
So I control what I can control and don't sweat what I cannot control.
If I think a business is making "too much" money, I buy their stock. After all, why not further my financial picture.
If you think big oil is making too much, buy stock and get a share of the profits.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
No onever said that gramps. Some mentioned that all industries are motivated by [bPROFIT[/b]. Don't you get that???? That's what FREE WORLD countries do.
Now you were in the military so I assume you don't believe Marx and Engels but I could be wrong.
I hear fuel is very cheap in Russia..maybe you should check it out??
As far as National Security..I will do more than my share (as was done in WWII) I will and can cut my driving to 1/4 of what I am doing now so you can continue to drive to Walmart and keep the Chinese in business.
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
No onever said that gramps. Some mentioned that all industries are motivated by [bPROFIT[/b]. Don't you get that???? That's what FREE WORLD countries do.
Now you were in the military so I assume you don't believe Marx and Engels but I could be wrong.
As far as National Security..I will do more than my share (as was done in WWII) I will and can cut my driving to 1/4 of what I am doing now so you can continue to drive to Walmart and keep the Chinese in business.
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Originally Posted By: javacontour
I know what I can and can't control.
I can't control what oil companies do. But I can control what I drive and how much I drive.
So I control what I can control and don't sweat what I cannot control.
If I think a business is making "too much" money, I buy their stock. After all, why not further my financial picture.
If you think big oil is making too much, buy stock and get a share of the profits.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
To say "they make too much money" down plays and ignores the unethical and criminal element in the industry. Remember that curly headed CEO of BP complaining that he had to give up time on his yaht because of the accident. A sociopath. Running a major corporation.
If there is no national security concern, why does the government store hundreds of millions of barrels of the stuff in empty Louisiana salt mines?
I know what I can and can't control.
I can't control what oil companies do. But I can control what I drive and how much I drive.
So I control what I can control and don't sweat what I cannot control.
If I think a business is making "too much" money, I buy their stock. After all, why not further my financial picture.
If you think big oil is making too much, buy stock and get a share of the profits.
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
To say "they make too much money" down plays and ignores the unethical and criminal element in the industry. Remember that curly headed CEO of BP complaining that he had to give up time on his yaht because of the accident. A sociopath. Running a major corporation.
If there is no national security concern, why does the government store hundreds of millions of barrels of the stuff in empty Louisiana salt mines?
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