What happened to the low gas prices?

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: SeaJay
I've seen a poster or three essentially post that the facts are that collusion and speculators are the cause of high oil prices.

If these are facts, it should not be too difficult for those to provide us with evidence of those facts.


OPEC is collusion.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi


Alternatives to fossil fuels need to be developed, and we shouldn't wait until fossil fuels become too expensive to buy before it's done...the more sources of energy we have available, the better...

I agree but there are no options except nuclear, wind, tidal, and solar. None of them are happening to any reasonable degree for a long time.


In the meantime we could be using CNG as there seems to be an abundance of that, but making it available for use in motor vehicles seems to be about as slow of a process as is the development of the other alternatives...


Al,
Palo Verde, in 2015 produced as much energy as all of California's solar, wind and hydro, on a tiny footprint.


Don't worry about the footprint. It's the cost. Nuclear is so dang expensive, renewables will get some foothold no matter what. What does a nuke go for these days? About 10 billion for 1000mw? That's 10,000 per mw. Wind turbines are around 2000 per mw.

I'm a nuclear fan too. But reality is reality.

 

[HTSS_TR]

OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.


Is OPEC collusion? Yes or no? Don't fret, many here sound like they're public information spokmen for big oil. Lots of opinions and baloney and short on technical expertise and logic.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
grampi...

how much do you spend every day in gas versus medical and health insurance ?

Just a question.

I mentioned the gas equivalent cost of NG powering your vehicle a little while ago, how are you working on that?


My healthcare premium is about $45 a month (retired military) and my dental runs me about $80 or $90 a month. I spend $200 to $400 a month on gas, depending on if it's $2 or $4 a gallon. I would use CNG if it was available at stations like gas is, but it isn't...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.


Is OPEC collusion? Yes or no? Don't fret, many here sound like they're public information spokmen for big oil. Lots of opinions and baloney and short on technical expertise and logic.



I still haven't gotten an answer to my question as to why these guys are so adamant about defending the oil industry...NOBODY is that defensive about something like this UNLESS THEY'RE GETTING PAID TO DO IT...especially considering how crooked the industry is...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
If the oil companies controlled the price then I don't think they would have let it drop so precipitously lately such that the fracking towns have gone bust.

Why would they have put all that money into those wells just to let it languish now?


Do you live under a bridge or something? Have you not heard anything about OPEC refusing to cut crude production for the purpose of driving U.S. companies out of business? The industry did this to themselves...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.

Is OPEC collusion? Yes or no? Don't fret, many here sound like they're public information spokesmen for big oil. Lots of opinions and baloney and short on technical expertise and logic.

What is your definition of "OPEC collusion" ?

We all know that OPEC openly tried and success in controlling supply for many decades, but they didn't success the last few years. They didn't try to control oil supply in secret, the had meeting regularly to set the production quota for each member.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.


Oil supply is not is not all over the wall...we've been swimming in supply for over a year now...it's sitting in barges in ports with nowhere to go because there's so much of it...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Disclosure: I have no relationship with oil industry(oil companies or retailers or distributors), the only thing I do every week like everybody is buying gas. I don't own stock of any oil company directly, I do own some mutual funds and they may have some oil related stocks.

Is OPEC collusion? Yes or no? Don't fret, many here sound like they're public information spokesmen for big oil. Lots of opinions and baloney and short on technical expertise and logic.

What is your definition of "OPEC collusion" ?

We all know that OPEC openly tried and success in controlling supply for many decades, but they didn't success the last few years. They didn't try to control oil supply in secret, the had meeting regularly to set the production quota for each member.


Being open about flooding the market with supply to try and drive U.S. companies out of business is no less unethical just because they're open about it...

 

[qwerty1234]

Grampi, how much should gas be in your opinion? 99cents a gallon? It's 2016 and gas is cheaper than last year at this time.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Grampi, how much should gas be in your opinion? 99cents a gallon? It's 2016 and gas is cheaper than last year at this time.


Depends on the price of crude. When crude is $50/bbl, gas shouldn't be $2.69...when it's $100/bbl, then I could see it being that high...

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Grampi, how much should gas be in your opinion? 99cents a gallon? It's 2016 and gas is cheaper than last year at this time.


Depends on the price of crude. When crude is $50/bbl, gas shouldn't be $2.69...when it's $100/bbl, then I could see it being that high...

Its priced at what people are willing to pay...Thats the way its always been. Shame on me for defending the free enterprise system.

 

[dave1251]

grampi the government should run the petro industry. Look at the discounts government controlled gasoline costs.

The only problem with that is most of the government controlled gasoline cost more vs American price per gallon.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Don't worry about the footprint. It's the cost. Nuclear is so dang expensive, renewables will get some foothold no matter what. What does a nuke go for these days? About 10 billion for 1000mw? That's 10,000 per mw. Wind turbines are around 2000 per mw.

I'm a nuclear fan too. But reality is reality.


And Reality is that wind farms are advertised at 35% cap factor, and are lucky to get 25...so you need to install 3-5 times the nameplate capacity of wind to get the same annual power output.

That brings them to par.

Then there's who pays for the storage, and the frequency and load regulation.

You should only see what all this cheap wind has done to the wholesale price in Oz...

edit, and just to head off the obvious...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OPEC had some controlling of oil supply the last several decades but they hadn't the last several years. The oil supply is all over the wall, some months it went up some months it went down.

Is OPEC collusion? Yes or no? Don't fret, many here sound like they're public information spokesmen for big oil. Lots of opinions and baloney and short on technical expertise and logic.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
What is your definition of "OPEC collusion" ?

We all know that OPEC openly tried and success in controlling supply for many decades, but they didn't success the last few years. They didn't try to control oil supply in secret, the had meeting regularly to set the production quota for each member.

Originally Posted By: grampi
Being open about flooding the market with supply to try and drive U.S. companies out of business is no less unethical just because they're open about it...

If you look at crude oil and gasoline price of the last 15 years you will see that they are all over the place.

Price went up substantial from 2002 to 2008, then dropped like fly in 1 year from more than $4/gal to about $1.50/gal. Then went up again then down.

This clearly tells me nobody is controlling anything just market driven, supply higher than demand price goes down, demand higher price goes up.

If OPEC can control supply they would love to keep it low to get higher price for their crude oil, but they didn't have control of the supply side that why crude oil went from $100+ a barrel to less than $30 few months ago and it is back up a little to about $50.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: grampi
The experts said prices would stay low for a couple of years, (beginning when the prices bottomed out), but I've noticed they keep creeping up. They're up $1 a gallon since they're lowest price...we were seeing $1.69, now they're $2.69...they just can't keep prices reasonable, can they? Soon they'll be back up to $3.50 or more...they just gotta keep pushing for those record profits, don't they?


1. Pump prices are still about 10% below what they were at this time last year.
2. There is a reason that the phrase "summer driving season" exists. Demand for refined product is higher.
3. The warmer months bring the regulatory requirement for more costly to produce lower RVP fuel.
4. Floods throughout the Gulf region as well as parts of the mid-Atlantic region have brought refinery closures.
5. It isn't just the supply and pricing of crude. Refinery capacity matters and refinery capacity doesn't come cheap. Just as a thought experiment, imagine that crude were free and fuel supplies were limited only by the capacity of refineries to process it. Think that fuel prices rationed by demand would be much lower? There is such an experiment in place at the RDS GTL plant in Qatar. You think that it's output is free or even particularly cheap given the free feedstocks it runs?

Me? Well we filled the '12 Accord and the old BMW yesterday with a total of 31.1 gallons between them for $2.299/gal. The old Beemer had done 512 miles and took 15.5 gals while the Accord had done 472 miles and took 15.6. So, nearly a thousand miles between the two for around $72.00.
I can live with that.

 

[qwerty1234]

Gramp, I hope you don't have high blood pressure. You seem to be getting riled up and the truth is that gas prices are still reasonable!

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

That brings them to par.

Then there's who pays for the storage, and the frequency and load regulation.

Who pays to deal with nuke waste and decommissioning. What is the cost of accidents?

Its not as clear cut as you keep saying.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I never said there was gouging...what the industry does isn't legally considered gouging, which is how they get away with what they do. They manipulate the market to maximize profits...the results are the same, but done the way they do it it's also legal...unethical, but legal...what I don't understand is why guys like you, AL, and HTSS_TR are always so quick to defend the industry. Are you guys paid for this?

I was actually directing that to someone else, but the point still stands. Part of making a profit IS manipulating the market if one is able to do so.

As I said already, Petro-Canada stations ran out of gas here and throughout western Canada this weekend. Obviously, they didn't raise their price enough, because demand outstripped their supply.

So, if CNG isn't available at every station, then it's not worth the hassle for you. Obviously, then, gasoline prices aren't as big of a concern to you as you make them out to be. I used to run LPG. It wasn't sold at every gas station. I adjusted.

And no, I'm not paid to defend the oil companies. I like cars, gasoline, diesel, oil, motorsports, and oil companies. I admit it. What I don't understand is why people rush to the store to pay more for bottled water than they do for gasoline. You want a scam? There's one.