I'm paying $2.55 a gallon for premium. I can't complain too much. $35 fill up FTW.
What happened to the low gas prices?
- Thread starter grampi
- Start date
- Status
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
Last edited:
Believe it or not I care about the environment and drive mostly when it's necessary. I wonder how many members here have those Toyota Prius types??
A guy at work asked me to do some modelling as winter has just hit (hard), and his furnace went out.
On today's prices...
Electricity - 6.72c/MJ
Natrual Gas - 3.85c/MJ
RUG - 3.41c/MJ
diesel -3.11c/MJ.
The first two have an additional connection and meter reading fee.
The latter two INCLUDE 40+c/l sin taxes (ends up around 35% sin tax in total cost).
I could heat my house with retail diesel or unleaded for less than my gas bill.
On today's prices...
Electricity - 6.72c/MJ
Natrual Gas - 3.85c/MJ
RUG - 3.41c/MJ
diesel -3.11c/MJ.
The first two have an additional connection and meter reading fee.
The latter two INCLUDE 40+c/l sin taxes (ends up around 35% sin tax in total cost).
I could heat my house with retail diesel or unleaded for less than my gas bill.
Originally Posted By: hatt
I'm curious as to why farming with horses wouldn't feed the USA? If you don't have 8 wheel drive tractors or 18 wheelers you'd farm differently. Most grain is used to produce stuff we shouldn't even be eating anyway. Once you stop growing grain for as far as the eye can see in all directions, a simpler way of farming becomes apparent.
As alluded to already, you'd have to significantly increase the farm population. Whether or not we produce too much grain is another matter; both our countries export grain, as well. A couple hundred acres by horse is a lot of work. 20,000 acres by horse is unthinkable, and hauling grain by horse is not feasible right now. A lot of grain elevators would have to be rebuilt in a heck of a hurry.
qwerty1234: I like to drive, too, and would be inconvenienced greatly without my car. But, one has to make due with what one has, and one can always make choices.
grampi: Practicality is also a matter of perspective. It's not practical for me that my mom isn't cooking all my meals for me since I became an adult, but it's something to which I've had to adapt. If one thinks gas is expensive, one pays it, or one does not. There's no in between. As I said, I'd be inconvenienced without my vehicle. I wouldn't become a shut in or starve to death, either.
The prototypical neighbourhood grocery store has "evolved" into the convenience store, since everyone preferred to get into their vehicles and drive to the big box store. The same has happened to the neighbourhood pharmacy. Financial institutions saw the writing on the wall and consolidated their locations, too. We made things difficult on ourselves. We burned expensive gas to save money to buy things at a location that really wasn't convenient to us in the first place.
I'm curious as to why farming with horses wouldn't feed the USA? If you don't have 8 wheel drive tractors or 18 wheelers you'd farm differently. Most grain is used to produce stuff we shouldn't even be eating anyway. Once you stop growing grain for as far as the eye can see in all directions, a simpler way of farming becomes apparent.
As alluded to already, you'd have to significantly increase the farm population. Whether or not we produce too much grain is another matter; both our countries export grain, as well. A couple hundred acres by horse is a lot of work. 20,000 acres by horse is unthinkable, and hauling grain by horse is not feasible right now. A lot of grain elevators would have to be rebuilt in a heck of a hurry.
qwerty1234: I like to drive, too, and would be inconvenienced greatly without my car. But, one has to make due with what one has, and one can always make choices.
grampi: Practicality is also a matter of perspective. It's not practical for me that my mom isn't cooking all my meals for me since I became an adult, but it's something to which I've had to adapt. If one thinks gas is expensive, one pays it, or one does not. There's no in between. As I said, I'd be inconvenienced without my vehicle. I wouldn't become a shut in or starve to death, either.
The prototypical neighbourhood grocery store has "evolved" into the convenience store, since everyone preferred to get into their vehicles and drive to the big box store. The same has happened to the neighbourhood pharmacy. Financial institutions saw the writing on the wall and consolidated their locations, too. We made things difficult on ourselves. We burned expensive gas to save money to buy things at a location that really wasn't convenient to us in the first place.
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Originally Posted By: grampi
You never answered my question from before. How much public transportation is available to those living in rural areas?
I'm sure there is another alternative for you but you don't look and prefer to complain about rising gas prices. What about carpooling or Uber/Lyft? I don't mind the higher gas prices because I get 30 mpg city and now it's summer I can ride my bike. Hopefully, our friends from "across the pond" can chime in here and give their opinion.
Since you won't answer my question, I'll answer it for you...public transportation isn't available to those living rural areas...you just refuse to admit when you're wrong about something...
Originally Posted By: grampi
You never answered my question from before. How much public transportation is available to those living in rural areas?
I'm sure there is another alternative for you but you don't look and prefer to complain about rising gas prices. What about carpooling or Uber/Lyft? I don't mind the higher gas prices because I get 30 mpg city and now it's summer I can ride my bike. Hopefully, our friends from "across the pond" can chime in here and give their opinion.
Since you won't answer my question, I'll answer it for you...public transportation isn't available to those living rural areas...you just refuse to admit when you're wrong about something...
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas. If gas/diesel got to be $6 or $7 and stayed that high, that wouldn't be just an inconvenience or an impracticality, sustained prices that high would shut down our economy. Our entire society is built around affordable commerce...people wouldn't be able to go to work, semis/trains couldn't afford to haul their goods, airlines would cease operations, marine shipments would stop, etc., so this notion of yours that if gas prices get too high we can just go back to living like we did before we started relying on affordable gas is more of a pipe dream than something that's likely to happen...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
No one is sticking up for the industry. We simply don't wear tin foil hats and blame others for what is going on.
Every industry tries to maximize profits. Every consumer tries to spend the least possible. If there is no profit in a venture, suppliers will leave, or at the very least sit on the sidelines until markets change.
Speculation cannot sustainably change the market. Some speculation is good. Airlines lock in prices so they know their fuel costs as one example.
The price of many products change based on supply and demand. The difference is you don't have the price of milk, eggs, and beef on a big sign at every other corner or freeway off ramp.
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
No one is sticking up for the industry. We simply don't wear tin foil hats and blame others for what is going on.
Every industry tries to maximize profits. Every consumer tries to spend the least possible. If there is no profit in a venture, suppliers will leave, or at the very least sit on the sidelines until markets change.
Speculation cannot sustainably change the market. Some speculation is good. Airlines lock in prices so they know their fuel costs as one example.
The price of many products change based on supply and demand. The difference is you don't have the price of milk, eggs, and beef on a big sign at every other corner or freeway off ramp.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
No one is sticking up for the industry. We simply don't wear tin foil hats and blame others for what is going on.
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
No one is sticking up for the industry. We simply don't wear tin foil hats and blame others for what is going on.
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Originally Posted By: qwerty1234
Believe it or not I care about the environment and drive mostly when it's necessary. I wonder how many members here have those Toyota Prius types??
I don't understand this.
Believe it or not I care about the environment and drive mostly when it's necessary. I wonder how many members here have those Toyota Prius types??
I don't understand this.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas. If gas/diesel got to be $6 or $7 and stayed that high, that wouldn't be just an inconvenience or an impracticality, sustained prices that high would shut down our economy. Our entire society is built around affordable commerce...people wouldn't be able to go to work, semis/trains couldn't afford to haul their goods, airlines would cease operations, marine shipments would stop, etc., so this notion of yours that if gas prices get too high we can just go back to living like we did before we started relying on affordable gas is more of a pipe dream than something that's likely to happen...
Well and whose fault is that?
Who writes zoning laws that say houses and stores or work have to be on the other side of town? Who mandates two acre housing lots (pushing the suburbs out over yet more sprawl) so towns won't be overrun by "poors" who'll clog "our schools"? Who only approves huge houses for new construction that are harder to heat? Who mandates hundreds of pounds of safety gear in cars instead of looking drivers in the eye and telling them they'll have a Euro-style "tough" driving test? Who won't prosecute heavy vehicle vs motor/pedal cycle accidents?
It's not really the Middle East's fault, or Wall St, either.
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas. If gas/diesel got to be $6 or $7 and stayed that high, that wouldn't be just an inconvenience or an impracticality, sustained prices that high would shut down our economy. Our entire society is built around affordable commerce...people wouldn't be able to go to work, semis/trains couldn't afford to haul their goods, airlines would cease operations, marine shipments would stop, etc., so this notion of yours that if gas prices get too high we can just go back to living like we did before we started relying on affordable gas is more of a pipe dream than something that's likely to happen...
Well and whose fault is that?
Who writes zoning laws that say houses and stores or work have to be on the other side of town? Who mandates two acre housing lots (pushing the suburbs out over yet more sprawl) so towns won't be overrun by "poors" who'll clog "our schools"? Who only approves huge houses for new construction that are harder to heat? Who mandates hundreds of pounds of safety gear in cars instead of looking drivers in the eye and telling them they'll have a Euro-style "tough" driving test? Who won't prosecute heavy vehicle vs motor/pedal cycle accidents?
It's not really the Middle East's fault, or Wall St, either.
Originally Posted By: grampi
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Re-read java's post. You are obviously are talking about me.
He said it perfectly.
The fact that you refer to various industries as a singular "industry"..shows your bias.
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Re-read java's post. You are obviously are talking about me.
He said it perfectly.
The fact that you refer to various industries as a singular "industry"..shows your bias.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas. If gas/diesel got to be $6 or $7 and stayed that high, that wouldn't be just an inconvenience or an impracticality, sustained prices that high would shut down our economy. Our entire society is built around affordable commerce...people wouldn't be able to go to work, semis/trains couldn't afford to haul their goods, airlines would cease operations, marine shipments would stop, etc., so this notion of yours that if gas prices get too high we can just go back to living like we did before we started relying on affordable gas is more of a pipe dream than something that's likely to happen...
Well and whose fault is that?
Who writes zoning laws that say houses and stores or work have to be on the other side of town? Who mandates two acre housing lots (pushing the suburbs out over yet more sprawl) so towns won't be overrun by "poors" who'll clog "our schools"? Who only approves huge houses for new construction that are harder to heat? Who mandates hundreds of pounds of safety gear in cars instead of looking drivers in the eye and telling them they'll have a Euro-style "tough" driving test? Who won't prosecute heavy vehicle vs motor/pedal cycle accidents?
It's not really the Middle East's fault, or Wall St, either.
It's certainly not the consumer's fault either, but we are always the ones who pay for it all...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas. If gas/diesel got to be $6 or $7 and stayed that high, that wouldn't be just an inconvenience or an impracticality, sustained prices that high would shut down our economy. Our entire society is built around affordable commerce...people wouldn't be able to go to work, semis/trains couldn't afford to haul their goods, airlines would cease operations, marine shipments would stop, etc., so this notion of yours that if gas prices get too high we can just go back to living like we did before we started relying on affordable gas is more of a pipe dream than something that's likely to happen...
Well and whose fault is that?
Who writes zoning laws that say houses and stores or work have to be on the other side of town? Who mandates two acre housing lots (pushing the suburbs out over yet more sprawl) so towns won't be overrun by "poors" who'll clog "our schools"? Who only approves huge houses for new construction that are harder to heat? Who mandates hundreds of pounds of safety gear in cars instead of looking drivers in the eye and telling them they'll have a Euro-style "tough" driving test? Who won't prosecute heavy vehicle vs motor/pedal cycle accidents?
It's not really the Middle East's fault, or Wall St, either.
It's certainly not the consumer's fault either, but we are always the ones who pay for it all...
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Re-read java's post. You are obviously are talking about me.
He said it perfectly.
The fact that you refer to various industries as a singular "industry"..shows your bias.
How should I refer to them? And you clearly always defend the industry (whomever that may be in your mind) regardless of all of their unethical actions. What does that say about you?
Originally Posted By: grampi
There are several people in this forum who always come to the defense of the industry no matter what they do. So those of us who are pointing out the unethical actions of the industry are wearing tin foil hats, or are you denying that their actions are unethical?
Re-read java's post. You are obviously are talking about me.
He said it perfectly.
The fact that you refer to various industries as a singular "industry"..shows your bias.
How should I refer to them? And you clearly always defend the industry (whomever that may be in your mind) regardless of all of their unethical actions. What does that say about you?
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
Originally Posted By: grampi
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
Who decides the crude oil price ? The producers/sellers or the buyers/users ? If supply is more than demand price goes down, in reverse if demand is more than supply price goes up.
Who decides $60/bbl of crude oil is the maximum ? When crude oil price went down from $100+ to less than $40 why didn't you complain ?
When crude oil was above $60/bbl few years ago oil companies should not buy any and you didn't have any gasoline to fill up your cars, how do you like that ?
The oil companies are very much have no controlling of crude oil price. Whatever the price of gasoline we are paying are the sump of many components: Crude oil price, transportation, refining, taxes, marketing, profits ...
Even when oil companies made record profits for some years they are still no more than 12-15%, compares with 18-25% or higher for many other industries.
Why Apple had more than 30-35% profit and nobody complaint, and Exxon/Mobil made 12-13% profit were result of greed ?
Why we Californian paid a lot more for gasoline and we don't complaint, and you guys paid a lot less but want even less ?
If the oil companies don't have any profit how do they stay in business ? Where do they get money for exploring new oil fields ?
Remember this: there were many investigates about oil companies from Federal and states and local governments, but none ever found any wrong doing from any oil company.
The facts are collusion and speculators are manipulating the market to cause higher prices, NOT demand at all!
Never has been for decades!
Explain why there are tons of oil tankers STILL sitting in the waters off the Gulf Coast with imported oil waiting for there to be room in land based storage facilities?
Also Iran is literally dumping a ton of oil onto the market right now, notice how the media is NOT talking about it? That is because the powers that be want oil prices higher and they too collude with other elites to make it so.
Originally Posted By: grampi
You are correct. It's for these reasons I can't understand why people continue to stick up for the industry even knowing all of the crooked and unethical shenanigans they pull...there's absolutely no reason for crude to ever be priced more than about $60/bbl, or gas to be higher than around $2.50....when they are, it's nothing more than market manipulation for record profits...
Who decides the crude oil price ? The producers/sellers or the buyers/users ? If supply is more than demand price goes down, in reverse if demand is more than supply price goes up.
Who decides $60/bbl of crude oil is the maximum ? When crude oil price went down from $100+ to less than $40 why didn't you complain ?
When crude oil was above $60/bbl few years ago oil companies should not buy any and you didn't have any gasoline to fill up your cars, how do you like that ?
The oil companies are very much have no controlling of crude oil price. Whatever the price of gasoline we are paying are the sump of many components: Crude oil price, transportation, refining, taxes, marketing, profits ...
Even when oil companies made record profits for some years they are still no more than 12-15%, compares with 18-25% or higher for many other industries.
Why Apple had more than 30-35% profit and nobody complaint, and Exxon/Mobil made 12-13% profit were result of greed ?
Why we Californian paid a lot more for gasoline and we don't complaint, and you guys paid a lot less but want even less ?
If the oil companies don't have any profit how do they stay in business ? Where do they get money for exploring new oil fields ?
Remember this: there were many investigates about oil companies from Federal and states and local governments, but none ever found any wrong doing from any oil company.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Who decides the crude oil price ? The producers/sellers or the buyers/users ? If supply is more than demand price goes down, in reverse if demand is more than supply price goes up.
Who decides $60/bbl of crude oil is the maximum ? When crude oil price went down from $100+ to less than $40 why didn't you complain ?
When crude oil was above $60/bbl few years ago oil companies should not buy any and you didn't have any gasoline to fill up your cars, how do you like that ?
The oil companies are very much have no controlling of crude oil price. Whatever the price of gasoline we are paying are the sump of many components: Crude oil price, transportation, refining, taxes, marketing, profits ...
Even when oil companies made record profits for some years they are still no more than 12-15%, compares with 18-25% or higher for many other industries.
Why Apple had more than 30-35% profit and nobody complaint, and Exxon/Mobil made 12-13% profit were result of greed ?
Why we Californian paid a lot more for gasoline and we don't complaint, and you guys paid a lot less but want even less ?
If the oil companies don't have any profit how do they stay in business ? Where do they get money for exploring new oil fields ?
Remember this: there were many investigates about oil companies from Federal and states and local governments, but none ever found any wrong doing from any oil company.
Who decides crude oil prices? Crude producers do by controlling supply, as well as speculators who create strife in the market.
Why would consumers complain when oil goes from $100 to $40? It's good the consumer catches a break once in a while. It doesn't happen very often.
Why do people continue to make irrelevant profit level comparisons with companies that make things that are not a necessity, like Apple. If Apple stops producing products, or charges so much for them that no one can afford them, consumers would buy similar products from some other company. That can't be done with gas/diesel, and if gas becomes priced so high that no one can afford it, our country's economy tanks. Big difference.
No one here is saying the industry shouldn't make profits. Of course everyone knows any business needs to make profits to succeed. What I am saying is there doesn't need to be the manipulation of the market so the industry can make record profits, and it should be illegal.
Who decides the crude oil price ? The producers/sellers or the buyers/users ? If supply is more than demand price goes down, in reverse if demand is more than supply price goes up.
Who decides $60/bbl of crude oil is the maximum ? When crude oil price went down from $100+ to less than $40 why didn't you complain ?
When crude oil was above $60/bbl few years ago oil companies should not buy any and you didn't have any gasoline to fill up your cars, how do you like that ?
The oil companies are very much have no controlling of crude oil price. Whatever the price of gasoline we are paying are the sump of many components: Crude oil price, transportation, refining, taxes, marketing, profits ...
Even when oil companies made record profits for some years they are still no more than 12-15%, compares with 18-25% or higher for many other industries.
Why Apple had more than 30-35% profit and nobody complaint, and Exxon/Mobil made 12-13% profit were result of greed ?
Why we Californian paid a lot more for gasoline and we don't complaint, and you guys paid a lot less but want even less ?
If the oil companies don't have any profit how do they stay in business ? Where do they get money for exploring new oil fields ?
Remember this: there were many investigates about oil companies from Federal and states and local governments, but none ever found any wrong doing from any oil company.
Who decides crude oil prices? Crude producers do by controlling supply, as well as speculators who create strife in the market.
Why would consumers complain when oil goes from $100 to $40? It's good the consumer catches a break once in a while. It doesn't happen very often.
Why do people continue to make irrelevant profit level comparisons with companies that make things that are not a necessity, like Apple. If Apple stops producing products, or charges so much for them that no one can afford them, consumers would buy similar products from some other company. That can't be done with gas/diesel, and if gas becomes priced so high that no one can afford it, our country's economy tanks. Big difference.
No one here is saying the industry shouldn't make profits. Of course everyone knows any business needs to make profits to succeed. What I am saying is there doesn't need to be the manipulation of the market so the industry can make record profits, and it should be illegal.
Originally Posted By: grampi
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas.
The ice man used to be a fairly essential part of the economy, too. And if gas and diesel were selling at $7 a gallon, you could be rest assured that would be a huge driving force for alternative technologies, and the oil companies would also have great incentive to lower prices or get more supply going.
And I've never said we could all turn the clock back 80 years. I would also be truthful when I said no oil company executive ever held a gun to my head and forced my to pay an outrageous price for gasoline. Any time I bought gasoline, I saw the price when I pulled in and willingly filled my vehicle and paid the price.
And yes, the zoning setups we see, and the shuttering of small, local stores decidedly ARE the consumers' fault. When you buy oil at Walmart and filters and tools on Amazon, instead of the local hardware or parts store, or drive across town to Costco instead of the small local grocer, you are voting with your wallet.
Garak - At some point, high gas/diesel prices would be considered a security threat....that's how much our economy relies on affordable gas.
The ice man used to be a fairly essential part of the economy, too. And if gas and diesel were selling at $7 a gallon, you could be rest assured that would be a huge driving force for alternative technologies, and the oil companies would also have great incentive to lower prices or get more supply going.
And I've never said we could all turn the clock back 80 years. I would also be truthful when I said no oil company executive ever held a gun to my head and forced my to pay an outrageous price for gasoline. Any time I bought gasoline, I saw the price when I pulled in and willingly filled my vehicle and paid the price.
And yes, the zoning setups we see, and the shuttering of small, local stores decidedly ARE the consumers' fault. When you buy oil at Walmart and filters and tools on Amazon, instead of the local hardware or parts store, or drive across town to Costco instead of the small local grocer, you are voting with your wallet.
Good post Garak. In the grand scheme of things there are many many more pressing problems than the cost of gasoline. The market will solve the problem.
Mommy will just have to let little Tommy take the bus to school. (the school buses are filled to about 20% capacity) And combine trips instead of making a separate trip to town for a cup of Latte'. (yep..I do it..and I just get a cup of coffee...total travel 9 miles)
Mommy will just have to let little Tommy take the bus to school. (the school buses are filled to about 20% capacity) And combine trips instead of making a separate trip to town for a cup of Latte'. (yep..I do it..and I just get a cup of coffee...total travel 9 miles)
Originally Posted By: Al
Good post Garak. In the grand scheme of things there are many many more pressing problems than the cost of gasoline. The market will solve the problem.
Mommy will just have to let little Tommy take the bus to school. (the school buses are filled to about 20% capacity) And combine trips instead of making a separate trip to town for a cup of Latte'. (yep..I do it..and I just get a cup of coffee...total travel 9 miles)
Alternatives to fossil fuels need to be developed, and we shouldn't wait until fossil fuels become too expensive to buy before it's done...the more sources of energy we have available, the better...
Good post Garak. In the grand scheme of things there are many many more pressing problems than the cost of gasoline. The market will solve the problem.
Mommy will just have to let little Tommy take the bus to school. (the school buses are filled to about 20% capacity) And combine trips instead of making a separate trip to town for a cup of Latte'. (yep..I do it..and I just get a cup of coffee...total travel 9 miles)
Alternatives to fossil fuels need to be developed, and we shouldn't wait until fossil fuels become too expensive to buy before it's done...the more sources of energy we have available, the better...
- Status
Similar threads
