What happened to the low gas prices?
- Thread starter grampi
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Motor oil is $2.67 a qt at Wlamart...anywhere else it's $5 a qt...and considering I drive through 3 states on a regular basis, how am I supposed get NG if it's not available at stations like gas is?
I thought that you were for national security a few posts ago...having your favourite (US?) brand strongarmed into buying shelf space is scarcely pro national security.
But as to the latter, you've now gone from price to convenience.
You COULD save money filling at home, nw you want the convenience of being able to fill up every half block.
You've got to pay for that convenience...each one of those locations needs to be paid for and their wages covered.
You don't find a walmart every half block...
Motor oil is $2.67 a qt at Wlamart...anywhere else it's $5 a qt...and considering I drive through 3 states on a regular basis, how am I supposed get NG if it's not available at stations like gas is?
I thought that you were for national security a few posts ago...having your favourite (US?) brand strongarmed into buying shelf space is scarcely pro national security.
But as to the latter, you've now gone from price to convenience.
You COULD save money filling at home, nw you want the convenience of being able to fill up every half block.
You've got to pay for that convenience...each one of those locations needs to be paid for and their wages covered.
You don't find a walmart every half block...
Originally Posted By: finmile
but can do Russia's life miserable indirectly by lowering the crude oil price to a record low levels => So, USA asked a favour from its good friend Saudi Arabia that it will pump as much oil to the market as it can
3) So far this scheme has been successful and within a year from now Russia will be in bankruptcy, and the Ukranian crisis will come to an end
If I'm wrong or right with my theory remains to be seen.
You are wrong. Research how Oil is priced..hint....its priced by Spot prices on future contracts.Gramps doesn't understand this either so don't feel bad.
but can do Russia's life miserable indirectly by lowering the crude oil price to a record low levels => So, USA asked a favour from its good friend Saudi Arabia that it will pump as much oil to the market as it can
3) So far this scheme has been successful and within a year from now Russia will be in bankruptcy, and the Ukranian crisis will come to an end
If I'm wrong or right with my theory remains to be seen.
You are wrong. Research how Oil is priced..hint....its priced by Spot prices on future contracts.Gramps doesn't understand this either so don't feel bad.
Originally Posted By: grampi
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
Originally Posted By: finmile
My theory has been for the last two years that Saudi Arabia has flooded the market with crude oil because USA wants to hit Russia to its knees.
According to this Saudi Arabia oil production chart from 2012 to 2016, there is no flooding of crude oil from Saudi Arabia, it was within 0.5M barrels variation of 9.75M barrels a day, most of the time it was right on 9.75M barrels a day.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/saudi_arabia_crude_oil_production
The world had more supply for 2-3 years because we produced much more shale oil than ever before. We are actually flooded the oil market, Saudi Arabia didn't cut their production therefore the world had more oil than demand.
Don't blame Saudi Arabia for the over supply.
You keep overlooking, or ignoring the fact that OPEC purposely flooded the market with supply to drive down prices attempting to bankrupt U.S. companies. I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge this...maybe because it punches a hole in your argument?
Originally Posted By: finmile
My theory has been for the last two years that Saudi Arabia has flooded the market with crude oil because USA wants to hit Russia to its knees.
According to this Saudi Arabia oil production chart from 2012 to 2016, there is no flooding of crude oil from Saudi Arabia, it was within 0.5M barrels variation of 9.75M barrels a day, most of the time it was right on 9.75M barrels a day.
https://ycharts.com/indicators/saudi_arabia_crude_oil_production
The world had more supply for 2-3 years because we produced much more shale oil than ever before. We are actually flooded the oil market, Saudi Arabia didn't cut their production therefore the world had more oil than demand.
Don't blame Saudi Arabia for the over supply.
Actually, I haven't been blaming Saudi Arabia for anything.
I think that Saudi Arabia is the good guy here providing us the cheap oil. And also (as it seems) all the parties who produce unconventional oil.
So, thanks guys. I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work!
I think that Saudi Arabia is the good guy here providing us the cheap oil. And also (as it seems) all the parties who produce unconventional oil.
So, thanks guys. I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work!
Originally Posted By: finmile
I think that Saudi Arabia is the good guy here providing us the cheap oil.
Since the USA went in and developed it all for them, I'm not sure its that good.
Pretty much every country owes us for something.
I think that Saudi Arabia is the good guy here providing us the cheap oil.
Since the USA went in and developed it all for them, I'm not sure its that good.
Pretty much every country owes us for something.
I know that USA is an ally with Saudi Arabia and tolerate them, because they have oil that you need. I see now that this partnership does indeed include some pain. Maybe it's kind of a forced marriage.
We have another game going on between Finland and Russia. Russia is our unpredictable neighbouring country and a constant military threat. Nothing we can do about it but to monitor what mood they are today and have our own military ready for action all the time.
This low oil price have already pulled down Russia's economy significantly and because of this Finland's economy is struggling also (less trade between the countries). If the Russia's economy will eventually collapse, it will become even more unpredictable and unstable neighbour, and that's bad news for us.
So, low oil price. It's a good thing and a bad thing. Everybody can't win at the same time. But right now I'm just enjoying my short term winnings every time I fill up the gas and don't worry too much about the distant future.
By the way, Finland is one of the few countries in Europe which are not part of the NATO (at least not yet). So, here's one country that is not exploiting you guys to the max. We try to manage with our own troops, even though it's a bit tricky situation. Like the story of David and Goliath.
We have another game going on between Finland and Russia. Russia is our unpredictable neighbouring country and a constant military threat. Nothing we can do about it but to monitor what mood they are today and have our own military ready for action all the time.
This low oil price have already pulled down Russia's economy significantly and because of this Finland's economy is struggling also (less trade between the countries). If the Russia's economy will eventually collapse, it will become even more unpredictable and unstable neighbour, and that's bad news for us.
So, low oil price. It's a good thing and a bad thing. Everybody can't win at the same time. But right now I'm just enjoying my short term winnings every time I fill up the gas and don't worry too much about the distant future.
By the way, Finland is one of the few countries in Europe which are not part of the NATO (at least not yet). So, here's one country that is not exploiting you guys to the max. We try to manage with our own troops, even though it's a bit tricky situation. Like the story of David and Goliath.
Originally Posted By: finmile
Non taken. I'm here to learn as much as spreading my best possible understanding on how things work.
It was a nice theory, though. I really liked it. Too bad if it's faulty...
Very unusual and refreshing for someone on this board to actually admit they might be wrong.
Originally Posted By: finmile
I know that USA is an ally with Saudi Arabia and tolerate them, because they have oil that you need. I see now that this partnership does indeed include some pain. Maybe it's kind of a forced marriage.
We have another game going on between Finland and Russia. Russia is our unpredictable neighbouring country and a constant military threat. Nothing we can do about it but to monitor what mood they are today and have our own military ready for action all the time.
This low oil price have already pulled down Russia's economy significantly and because of this Finland's economy is struggling also (less trade between the countries). If the Russia's economy will eventually collapse, it will become even more unpredictable and unstable neighbour, and that's bad news for us.
So, low oil price. It's a good thing and a bad thing. Everybody can't win at the same time. But right now I'm just enjoying my short term winnings every time I fill up the gas and don't worry too much about the distant future.
By the way, Finland is one of the few countries in Europe which are not part of the NATO (at least not yet). So, here's one country that is not exploiting you guys to the max. We try to manage with our own troops, even though it's a bit tricky situation. Like the story of David and Goliath.
Thanks for the perspective. Insightful, and from outside the U.S. that seems to be unbiased. Out news here is biased at times CNN it ultra liberal and Faux has gravitated from News you can trust to downright unreliable in many areas. I have learned to ignore their biases.
Thanks!
Non taken. I'm here to learn as much as spreading my best possible understanding on how things work.
It was a nice theory, though. I really liked it. Too bad if it's faulty...
Very unusual and refreshing for someone on this board to actually admit they might be wrong.
Originally Posted By: finmile
I know that USA is an ally with Saudi Arabia and tolerate them, because they have oil that you need. I see now that this partnership does indeed include some pain. Maybe it's kind of a forced marriage.
We have another game going on between Finland and Russia. Russia is our unpredictable neighbouring country and a constant military threat. Nothing we can do about it but to monitor what mood they are today and have our own military ready for action all the time.
This low oil price have already pulled down Russia's economy significantly and because of this Finland's economy is struggling also (less trade between the countries). If the Russia's economy will eventually collapse, it will become even more unpredictable and unstable neighbour, and that's bad news for us.
So, low oil price. It's a good thing and a bad thing. Everybody can't win at the same time. But right now I'm just enjoying my short term winnings every time I fill up the gas and don't worry too much about the distant future.
By the way, Finland is one of the few countries in Europe which are not part of the NATO (at least not yet). So, here's one country that is not exploiting you guys to the max. We try to manage with our own troops, even though it's a bit tricky situation. Like the story of David and Goliath.
Thanks for the perspective. Insightful, and from outside the U.S. that seems to be unbiased. Out news here is biased at times CNN it ultra liberal and Faux has gravitated from News you can trust to downright unreliable in many areas. I have learned to ignore their biases.
Thanks!
Originally Posted By: grampi
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
No one said that, grampi. They're just not any more devilish than those companies in the insurance, banking, retail, manufacturing, telecommunications, or investment sectors, or whatever other sector I might have missed.
Also, you won't see fuel being sold 50% cheaper at one station over another because that station will be selling it at a loss, and that won't be sustainable for long. That doesn't mean there's no competition. You want to know where the pricing is a problem? I've brought it up here before. If I buy oil at Walmart or Canadian Tire, their sale price is routinely 45% to 50% off regular. I can buy oil directly from the distributor for cheaper still, and I know that Walmart and CT are buying oil for less than I am, still. But, if I buy fuel from Imperial Oil, I'm not getting it for half the price that I do from the Canadian Tire gas bar. Nor does Canadian Tire routinely offer 50% off fuel.
If you see something 50% off at one store for the exact same product, you know it's either clearance or there is something fishy with the pricing, such as motor oil up here. If I could open a gas station here and sell fuel for half the price of everyone else in the city and still make a profit, I'd be turning the sod this morning.
By the way, the Petro-Canada stations in this city still have no gasoline. They must just be raking in the dough selling none of this supposed overpriced product.
It just blows my mind that so many of you either believe the oil industry is this squeaky clean enterprise that never does anything crooked and/or you know they're crooked and you just don't care. I guess I should stop caring too...
No one said that, grampi. They're just not any more devilish than those companies in the insurance, banking, retail, manufacturing, telecommunications, or investment sectors, or whatever other sector I might have missed.
Also, you won't see fuel being sold 50% cheaper at one station over another because that station will be selling it at a loss, and that won't be sustainable for long. That doesn't mean there's no competition. You want to know where the pricing is a problem? I've brought it up here before. If I buy oil at Walmart or Canadian Tire, their sale price is routinely 45% to 50% off regular. I can buy oil directly from the distributor for cheaper still, and I know that Walmart and CT are buying oil for less than I am, still. But, if I buy fuel from Imperial Oil, I'm not getting it for half the price that I do from the Canadian Tire gas bar. Nor does Canadian Tire routinely offer 50% off fuel.
If you see something 50% off at one store for the exact same product, you know it's either clearance or there is something fishy with the pricing, such as motor oil up here. If I could open a gas station here and sell fuel for half the price of everyone else in the city and still make a profit, I'd be turning the sod this morning.
By the way, the Petro-Canada stations in this city still have no gasoline. They must just be raking in the dough selling none of this supposed overpriced product.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
Motor oil is $2.67 a qt at Wlamart...anywhere else it's $5 a qt...and considering I drive through 3 states on a regular basis, how am I supposed get NG if it's not available at stations like gas is?
I thought that you were for national security a few posts ago...having your favourite (US?) brand strongarmed into buying shelf space is scarcely pro national security.
But as to the latter, you've now gone from price to convenience.
You COULD save money filling at home, nw you want the convenience of being able to fill up every half block.
You've got to pay for that convenience...each one of those locations needs to be paid for and their wages covered.
You don't find a walmart every half block...
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Originally Posted By: grampi
Motor oil is $2.67 a qt at Wlamart...anywhere else it's $5 a qt...and considering I drive through 3 states on a regular basis, how am I supposed get NG if it's not available at stations like gas is?
I thought that you were for national security a few posts ago...having your favourite (US?) brand strongarmed into buying shelf space is scarcely pro national security.
But as to the latter, you've now gone from price to convenience.
You COULD save money filling at home, nw you want the convenience of being able to fill up every half block.
You've got to pay for that convenience...each one of those locations needs to be paid for and their wages covered.
You don't find a walmart every half block...
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: finmile
but can do Russia's life miserable indirectly by lowering the crude oil price to a record low levels => So, USA asked a favour from its good friend Saudi Arabia that it will pump as much oil to the market as it can
3) So far this scheme has been successful and within a year from now Russia will be in bankruptcy, and the Ukranian crisis will come to an end
If I'm wrong or right with my theory remains to be seen.
You are wrong. Research how Oil is priced..hint....its priced by Spot prices on future contracts.Gramps doesn't understand this either so don't feel bad.
Crude products should not be part of the futures market...
Originally Posted By: finmile
but can do Russia's life miserable indirectly by lowering the crude oil price to a record low levels => So, USA asked a favour from its good friend Saudi Arabia that it will pump as much oil to the market as it can
3) So far this scheme has been successful and within a year from now Russia will be in bankruptcy, and the Ukranian crisis will come to an end
If I'm wrong or right with my theory remains to be seen.
You are wrong. Research how Oil is priced..hint....its priced by Spot prices on future contracts.Gramps doesn't understand this either so don't feel bad.
Crude products should not be part of the futures market...
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Oh, I do...you rely on other people to provide a service to "do the things you need to do"...whatever they may be, and whatever the utility to society as a whole or "national security" may be.
And you want someone else to pay for it.
Whether it be the people digging it up, the people refining and transporting it, or the people owning, staffing, and responsible for the operating costs associated with the fueling stations that you need for your level of convenience.
You want the convenience, but don't want to pay for it.
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Oh, I do...you rely on other people to provide a service to "do the things you need to do"...whatever they may be, and whatever the utility to society as a whole or "national security" may be.
And you want someone else to pay for it.
Whether it be the people digging it up, the people refining and transporting it, or the people owning, staffing, and responsible for the operating costs associated with the fueling stations that you need for your level of convenience.
You want the convenience, but don't want to pay for it.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Oh, I do...you rely on other people to provide a service to "do the things you need to do"...whatever they may be, and whatever the utility to society as a whole or "national security" may be.
And you want someone else to pay for it.
Whether it be the people digging it up, the people refining and transporting it, or the people owning, staffing, and responsible for the operating costs associated with the fueling stations that you need for your level of convenience.
You want the convenience, but don't want to pay for it.
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
Originally Posted By: grampi
I don't think you understand my travel arrangements. There's no way I could fill up on NG at home, drive 5 hours to my apartment, drive back and forth from my apartment to work all week, then drive 5 hours back home, all on one tank of NG...it's not about convenience, it simply can't be done...
Oh, I do...you rely on other people to provide a service to "do the things you need to do"...whatever they may be, and whatever the utility to society as a whole or "national security" may be.
And you want someone else to pay for it.
Whether it be the people digging it up, the people refining and transporting it, or the people owning, staffing, and responsible for the operating costs associated with the fueling stations that you need for your level of convenience.
You want the convenience, but don't want to pay for it.
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
Originally Posted By: grampi
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
You want to have your home, drive to your apartment, back and forth, back and forth, all for your convenience...it's certainly not national security, which you've cited as an issue, or you'd have a gas card or something for the taxpayer to pay for the fuel.
You need a gas station at certain locations to meet those needs, which are your needs...your home, your apartment, and your job.
And another person has to provide that gas station, people to work in that gas station, so that you can do the things that you "need" to do...again, they are YOUR needs/wants, not national security, as you'd have a gas card to cover that, and not bother with $10/gal.
So you CHOOSE to have a house, apartment, and other activities that require a certain amount of mileage, and aren't prepared to pay the going rate.
You aren't prepared to change your choices, but expect the rest of the world to give it to you for nothing...
That's my point...
And you made me sound like PopRivet because you are being so obtuse in your argument.
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
You want to have your home, drive to your apartment, back and forth, back and forth, all for your convenience...it's certainly not national security, which you've cited as an issue, or you'd have a gas card or something for the taxpayer to pay for the fuel.
You need a gas station at certain locations to meet those needs, which are your needs...your home, your apartment, and your job.
And another person has to provide that gas station, people to work in that gas station, so that you can do the things that you "need" to do...again, they are YOUR needs/wants, not national security, as you'd have a gas card to cover that, and not bother with $10/gal.
So you CHOOSE to have a house, apartment, and other activities that require a certain amount of mileage, and aren't prepared to pay the going rate.
You aren't prepared to change your choices, but expect the rest of the world to give it to you for nothing...
That's my point...
And you made me sound like PopRivet because you are being so obtuse in your argument.
You've stumbled into why electric cars have "range anxiety" and while CNG city busses are a success because they only go 80 miles a day... and the cumbersome tanks are hidden in a "false roof".
Liquid fuel is an excellent, dense, transportable source. I use #2 fuel oil to heat my house. Firewood's cheaper* (*not this year) but horribly inconvenient. I am poised however to switch back and forth depending on pricing, helping keep price shocks from hitting me. Economics theory puts this on a curve, it's pretty interesting.
Ultimately you need to decide why you "need" to drive 5 hours every week. It seems you chose this lifestyle on some pricing assumptions, which have turned out to be wrong, and you're too stubborn to see it.
Liquid fuel is an excellent, dense, transportable source. I use #2 fuel oil to heat my house. Firewood's cheaper* (*not this year) but horribly inconvenient. I am poised however to switch back and forth depending on pricing, helping keep price shocks from hitting me. Economics theory puts this on a curve, it's pretty interesting.
Ultimately you need to decide why you "need" to drive 5 hours every week. It seems you chose this lifestyle on some pricing assumptions, which have turned out to be wrong, and you're too stubborn to see it.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Ultimately you need to decide why you "need" to drive 5 hours every week. It seems you chose this lifestyle on some pricing assumptions, which have turned out to be wrong, and you're too stubborn to see it.
You nailed it...
Ultimately you need to decide why you "need" to drive 5 hours every week. It seems you chose this lifestyle on some pricing assumptions, which have turned out to be wrong, and you're too stubborn to see it.
You nailed it...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
You want to have your home, drive to your apartment, back and forth, back and forth, all for your convenience...it's certainly not national security, which you've cited as an issue, or you'd have a gas card or something for the taxpayer to pay for the fuel.
You need a gas station at certain locations to meet those needs, which are your needs...your home, your apartment, and your job.
And another person has to provide that gas station, people to work in that gas station, so that you can do the things that you "need" to do...again, they are YOUR needs/wants, not national security, as you'd have a gas card to cover that, and not bother with $10/gal.
So you CHOOSE to have a house, apartment, and other activities that require a certain amount of mileage, and aren't prepared to pay the going rate.
You aren't prepared to change your choices, but expect the rest of the world to give it to you for nothing...
That's my point...
And you made me sound like PopRivet because you are being so obtuse in your argument.
Who paid for all of the gas stations? It's called a business. If CNG was made available by the companies that sell it like gas was made available, why wouldn't they pay for the means to do so? It's their business, not mine. I don't know why you think that's something consumers should flit the bill for...and don't you think if CNG was as readily available as gas is that many other people would use it too?
Originally Posted By: grampi
I guess you've gone off the deep end because I don't have a clue what you're talking about...where did I say anything about wanting others to pay for anything?
You want to have your home, drive to your apartment, back and forth, back and forth, all for your convenience...it's certainly not national security, which you've cited as an issue, or you'd have a gas card or something for the taxpayer to pay for the fuel.
You need a gas station at certain locations to meet those needs, which are your needs...your home, your apartment, and your job.
And another person has to provide that gas station, people to work in that gas station, so that you can do the things that you "need" to do...again, they are YOUR needs/wants, not national security, as you'd have a gas card to cover that, and not bother with $10/gal.
So you CHOOSE to have a house, apartment, and other activities that require a certain amount of mileage, and aren't prepared to pay the going rate.
You aren't prepared to change your choices, but expect the rest of the world to give it to you for nothing...
That's my point...
And you made me sound like PopRivet because you are being so obtuse in your argument.
Who paid for all of the gas stations? It's called a business. If CNG was made available by the companies that sell it like gas was made available, why wouldn't they pay for the means to do so? It's their business, not mine. I don't know why you think that's something consumers should flit the bill for...and don't you think if CNG was as readily available as gas is that many other people would use it too?
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There are more high mpg cars available now than at any other previous time. You can find them cheap too, if you're a good shopper.
Anyone complaining about gas prices, should blame their own choices. Did you really think gas was cheap and would stay cheap when you bought that guzzler?
If you 'need' a truck for work, then you should be able to write it off as business expense. If not, you're doing it wrong.
Anyone complaining about gas prices, should blame their own choices. Did you really think gas was cheap and would stay cheap when you bought that guzzler?
If you 'need' a truck for work, then you should be able to write it off as business expense. If not, you're doing it wrong.
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