What happened to the low gas prices?

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: hatt
grampi, what is YOUR solution?


Get fuels out of the futures market...that would take speculators out of the process altogether, which would stabilize prices...prices would then be completely set by supply and demand...also, instill tighter controls on producers restricting them from either flooding the market with supply, or purposely tightening supplies to raise prices, which would also stabilize prices...


And while they are at it, they should regulate it such that the average joe gets a job closer to home and doesn't waste resources through a personal choice living 5 hours drive from his employment.

I mean if we are regulating stuff, should start with the low hanging fruit, hey?


Wow, you really have a hang-up over my living arrangement, don't you?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: hatt
grampi, what is YOUR solution?


Get fuels out of the futures market...that would take speculators out of the process altogether, which would stabilize prices...prices would then be completely set by supply and demand...also, instill tighter controls on producers restricting them from either flooding the market with supply, or purposely tightening supplies to raise prices, which would also stabilize prices...
How are futures not set by supply and demand? If they were not the second part of your solution wouldn't be needed.

Grampi..you still don't understand (as hatt pointed out) that speculators reflect supply and demand via the spot markets (day to day) and futures contracts weeks or months out set prices long range... And.. you want more "controls" ....by whom?

You make zero sense man. Please read about how futures control the prices..or rather stabilise them. You are lacking knowledge about the system yet criticise it.

So we have eliminated National Security as a reason for price concern. (It hasn't occurred) And you (I guess) like the free market except when it dictated the higher price of gas which has risen less than the cost of inflation since 1960..what do you want?

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel

The fix IS in folks and always is when big money interests control the game...

Yep..that's how Marx and Engels convinced their minions to forsake free enterprise and move to a distorted ideology where Stalin controlled how and when you took a [censored]. And then killed you bc you didn't take a [censored] to his liking.

You sound more and like a Communist every day. Except the Communist Party is more crooked than any CEO in this country could hope to be.


Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...

 

[Prune_Juice]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: grampi

grampi, what is YOUR solution?


Get fuels out of the futures market...that would take speculators out of the process altogether, which would stabilize prices...prices would then be completely set by supply and demand...also, instill tighter controls on producers restricting them from either flooding the market with supply, or purposely tightening supplies to raise prices, which would also stabilize prices...
How are futures not set by supply and demand? If they were not the second part of your solution wouldn't be needed.

Grampi..you still don't understand (as hatt pointed out) that speculators reflect supply and demand via the spot markets (day to day) and futures contracts weeks or months out set prices long range... And.. you want more "controls" ....by whom?

You make zero sense man. Please read about how futures control the prices..or rather stabilise them. You are lacking knowledge about the system yet criticise it.

So we have eliminated National Security as a reason for price concern. (It hasn't occurred) And you (I guess) like the free market except when it dictated the higher price of gas which has risen less than the cost of inflation since 1960..what do you want?

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel

The fix IS in folks and always is when big money interests control the game...

Yep..that's how Marx and Engels convinced their minions to forsake free enterprise and move to a distorted ideology where Stalin controlled how and when you took a [censored]. And then killed you bc you didn't take a [censored] to his liking.

You sound more and like a Communist every day. Except the Communist Party is more crooked than any CEO in this country could hope to be.


Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...

I thought we used the futures market to account for the time it will take fuel to get from whatever its origin is to wherever it actually goes, and priced for, in effect, that future price.

We haven't had any storms that MIGHT happen in awhile, or other guaranteed price spikes.

Though.. $2/gal range is higher than the $1.39/gal range.

I just hope it doesn't go up another dollar. Over $2.50 or $2.74 or so is when gas starts to become expensive.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: hatt

grampi, what is YOUR solution?


Get fuels out of the futures market...that would take speculators out of the process altogether, which would stabilize prices...prices would then be completely set by supply and demand...also, instill tighter controls on producers restricting them from either flooding the market with supply, or purposely tightening supplies to raise prices, which would also stabilize prices...
How are futures not set by supply and demand? If they were not the second part of your solution wouldn't be needed.

Grampi..you still don't understand (as hatt pointed out) that speculators reflect supply and demand via the spot markets (day to day) and futures contracts weeks or months out set prices long range... And.. you want more "controls" ....by whom?

You make zero sense man. Please read about how futures control the prices..or rather stabilise them. You are lacking knowledge about the system yet criticise it.

So we have eliminated National Security as a reason for price concern. (It hasn't occurred) And you (I guess) like the free market except when it dictated the higher price of gas which has risen less than the cost of inflation since 1960..what do you want?

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel

The fix IS in folks and always is when big money interests control the game...

Yep..that's how Marx and Engels convinced their minions to forsake free enterprise and move to a distorted ideology where Stalin controlled how and when you took a [censored]. And then killed you bc you didn't take a [censored] to his liking.

You sound more and like a Communist every day. Except the Communist Party is more crooked than any CEO in this country could hope to be.


Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...

I thought we used the futures market to account for the time it will take fuel to get from whatever its origin is to wherever it actually goes, and priced for, in effect, that future price.

We haven't had any storms that MIGHT happen in awhile, or other guaranteed price spikes.

Though.. $2/gal range is higher than the $1.39/gal range.

I just hope it doesn't go up another dollar. Over $2.50 or $2.74 or so is when gas starts to become expensive.

That's what the futures market is supposed to be used for, but in recent years, speculators seem to think the market is there for them to take advantage of for creating huge price swings (the bigger the swings, the more money they make). Prices here in IL have already increased more than $1 a gallon...at the low point it was $1.69...now it's $2.79...I'm sure $3 and higher will be back soon...

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: hatt
grampi, what is YOUR solution?


Get fuels out of the futures market...that would take speculators out of the process altogether, which would stabilize prices...prices would then be completely set by supply and demand...also, instill tighter controls on producers restricting them from either flooding the market with supply, or purposely tightening supplies to raise prices, which would also stabilize prices...
How are futures not set by supply and demand? If they were not the second part of your solution wouldn't be needed.


The futures market is based on feelings, not actual supply and demand...
So why is oil not selling for over $100/barrel? The oil industry certainly feels better when oil is selling for that level vs the current. Right now they're having to lay off people.

Our current system likely isn't perfect. But it works pretty good. Gas for a typical family is cheaper than their cable bill, or cell phone bill, or electric bill, etc. And it's always available when I want to fill up. Getting more .gov regulations involved is beyond stupid. If people like tiredtrucker, who uses truck loads of fuel, aren't sitting here complaining I don't want to hear anything from some dude with a Corolla arguing about $20/wk who chose to get a job hundreds of miles from his home. I can get you in contact with a REALTOR in your area to get your situation sorted out.

 

[javacontour]

Don't forget payroll taxes. Those are at 7.65%

I get in the 40% marginal tax range on my overtime pay when Federal, FICA and state income taxes are figured and I'm not a rich man/big wig.

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: hatt
For sure there should be a 50% income tax on big wigs with a weekend vacation residence. Only fair.


Top federal tax bracket was 39%. State income tax is what, 5% or so? And sales tax around that? Not too far from 50%. [I come up with 45% effective tax rate, with 39% Fed + 5% state + 5% sales. YMMV depending upon rates and writeoffs.] [/quote]

 

[javacontour]

We've been over this before, speculators cannot SUSTAINABLY raise or lower the price. Ultimately supply and demand catches up and calls their bluff/bet.

If speculators drive up prices on contracts, ultimately they have to deliver. If their options are worthless, no one will buy at that price. If the price is driven too low, they have to supply product at a loss when someone tries to cash in the options they wrote.

It may be sustainable for a short time, but eventually the reality of the market, supply and demand will remove such distortions. Often to the opposite extreme. I.E. if the price was too high, there will be a glut of supply and the price falls too low to be sustained.

Now, prices are generally inelastic in the downward direction, but they do go down as the market realizes the high price is not sustainable.

 

[Prune_Juice]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Prune_Juice
Originally Posted By: grampi


Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...


I thought we used the futures market to account for the time it will take fuel to get from whatever its origin is to wherever it actually goes, and priced for, in effect, that future price.

We haven't had any storms that MIGHT happen in awhile, or other guaranteed price spikes.

Though.. $2/gal range is higher than the $1.39/gal range.

I just hope it doesn't go up another dollar. Over $2.50 or $2.74 or so is when gas starts to become expensive.


That's what the futures market is supposed to be used for, but in recent years, speculators seem to think the market is there for them to take advantage of for creating huge price swings (the bigger the swings, the more money they make). Prices here in IL have already increased more than $1 a gallon...at the low point it was $1.69...now it's $2.79...I'm sure $3 and higher will be back soon...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: hatt
So why is oil not selling for over $100/barrel? The oil industry certainly feels better when oil is selling for that level vs the current. Right now they're having to lay off people.

Our current system likely isn't perfect. But it works pretty good. Gas for a typical family is cheaper than their cable bill, or cell phone bill, or electric bill, etc. And it's always available when I want to fill up. Getting more .gov regulations involved is beyond stupid. If people like tiredtrucker, who uses truck loads of fuel, aren't sitting here complaining I don't want to hear anything from some dude with a Corolla arguing about $20/wk who chose to get a job hundreds of miles from his home. I can get you in contact with a REALTOR in your area to get your situation sorted out.


You know darn well as I do why crude isn't selling for $100...because the industry flooded the market with supply...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Our current system likely isn't perfect. But it works pretty good. Gas for a typical family is cheaper than their cable bill, or cell phone bill, or electric bill, etc. And it's always available when I want to fill up. Getting more .gov regulations involved is beyond stupid. If people like tiredtrucker, who uses truck loads of fuel, aren't sitting here complaining I don't want to hear anything from some dude with a Corolla arguing about $20/wk who chose to get a job hundreds of miles from his home. I can get you in contact with a REALTOR in your area to get your situation sorted out.


My living arrangement has nothing to do with this subject, and if you can't make your point without bringing it up, why don't you just move on...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Don't forget payroll taxes. Those are at 7.65%

I get in the 40% marginal tax range on my overtime pay when Federal, FICA and state income taxes are figured and I'm not a rich man/big wig.

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: hatt
For sure there should be a 50% income tax on big wigs with a weekend vacation residence. Only fair.


Top federal tax bracket was 39%. State income tax is what, 5% or so? And sales tax around that? Not too far from 50%. [I come up with 45% effective tax rate, with 39% Fed + 5% state + 5% sales. YMMV depending upon rates and writeoffs.]
[/quote]

Oh yeah, forgot about the 1.45% Medicare and 6.2% SS, although that 6.2% only applies to the first $118.5k (so "big wigs" would see little hit for that).

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...

1978 to be exact. If things worked so well before then what about 1973? Or do you have selective amnesia?

How do you manage to be on this board 24/7 and have a job?

Originally Posted By: grampi

You know darn well as I do why crude isn't selling for $100...because the industry flooded the market with supply...

So in spite of those evil Speculators and Futures it IS supply and demand. The evil speculators only come out once in a while and raise those prices? Did you realise you sound silly to 99% of folks on this board?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi

Fuels have only been a part of the futures market since the 1970s...before that, prices were much less volatile...we never saw the huge price swings until fuels became part of the futures market...

1978 to be exact. If things worked so well before then what about 1973? Or do you have selective amnesia?

How do you manage to be on this board 24/7 and have a job?

Originally Posted By: grampi

You know darn well as I do why crude isn't selling for $100...because the industry flooded the market with supply...

So in spite of those evil Speculators and Futures it IS supply and demand. The evil speculators only come out once in a while and raise those prices? Did you realise you sound silly to 99% of folks on this board?


What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: grampi
What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...

Nobody like to pay more than $1/gal for gas, we love to get back to 99 cents a gallon of the 80's, but it is only happened in our dream.

Personally I am glad we are not in the position of waiting hours to fill up our gas tanks like we did in early 70's.

As of now a gallon of gas is about a gallon of milk, I think the gas price is very reasonable compares with other things we need to buy daily/weekly.

 

[cptbarkey]

All those people who bought their $35k trucks are certainly going to be hyper sensitive when it takes them $100 to fill up every week. They already struggle to make the monthly $800 payment, so another $400 is gonna have them eating ramen and running to trade in their bling trucks.

I welcome higher gas prices so I can buy your trash truck at discount prices.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: grampi

What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...

As usual your history comes from wishful thinking instead of facts. The gas lines were caused by fixing price on oil (as you propose). That lead to lowered supply and gas lines.

The article explains that the population (and leaders-and you) were (and are) clueless vis-a vis free markets. Had we not imposed prise controls and allowed the free market (that you hate) to function there would have been no gas lines.

You and many others refuse to learn from history bc you have not studied it.

OPEC was not a big player in the U.S. markets in 1973. And Europe was. BC Europe did not enact price controls they did not suffer like us. Even though they were more dependent ON OPEC oil.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/15/20060515-122820-6110r/

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: grampi

What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...

As usual your history comes from wishful thinking instead of facts. The gas lines were caused by fixing price on oil (as you propose). That lead to lowered supply and gas lines.

The article explains that the population (and leaders-and you) were (and are) clueless vis-a vis free markets. Had we not imposed prise controls and allowed the free market (that you hate) to function there would have been no gas lines.

You and many others refuse to learn from history bc you have not studied it.

OPEC was not a big player in the U.S. markets in 1973. And Europe was. BC Europe did not enact price controls they did not suffer like us. Even though they were more dependent ON OPEC oil.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/may/15/20060515-122820-6110r/


Once again, you're making stuff up. I never said anything about price controls...and I would love it if fuels were part of the free market, but they're not...they operate in a cartel...

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: grampi
What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...


For a while you were someone trying to make a point with your arguments, but now you've stopped listening and actually reading responses and instead just keep spewing nonsense.

Troll.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: grampi
What did the oil embargo have to do with fuels being, or not being in the futures market? Of course I sound silly to a bunch of big oil cheerleaders...


For a while you were someone trying to make a point with your arguments, but now you've stopped listening and actually reading responses and instead just keep spewing nonsense.

Troll.


Like you've contributed so much to the discussion

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Once again, you're making stuff up. I never said anything about price controls...and I would love it if fuels were part of the free market, but they're not...they operate in a cartel...

You admitted a while back that prices are low bc the market was flooded...which is admitting that there is a free market.

Yes or no....do you want price controls?

Originally Posted By: kschachn

For a while you were someone trying to make a point with your arguments, but now you've stopped listening and actually reading responses and instead just keep spewing nonsense.
Troll.

lol