Was I the bad guy? incident at my YMCA

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Wow! Thank the Lord most people don’t have handicapped children. This post breaks my heart. My heart breaks for “some” of you as well
frown.gif
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
...I am considering that for next Monday, if the Dad and son are attending, I will apologise for my outburst. Maybe ask the kid to pull my finger?

What would you do?


I'm glad to hear you will apologize. It shows you have compassion. We all become frustrated with situations, it is only human nature. As has been pointed out, the parents have been dealing with his special needs for decades, and will have to deal with the his needs for the rest of their lives.

Try to use the kindest words.
Peace be with you.
 
Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
...I am considering that for next Monday, if the Dad and son are attending, I will apologise for my outburst. Maybe ask the kid to pull my finger?

What would you do?


I'm glad to hear you will apologize. It shows you have compassion. We all become frustrated with situations, it is only human nature. As has been pointed out, the parents have been dealing with his special needs for decades, and will have to deal with the his needs for the rest of their lives.

Try to use the kindest words.
Peace be with you.


He'll do that, then go pee in the cowl
grin2.gif
 
Solution: pass gas louder and smellier

Assert your dominance in this situation. Show them ur the alpha male and a force to be reckoned with
cool.gif
 
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The grand irony here is how society would have us "treat" anyone with a disability. I'm going to take the long way around the block to get to my point, so bare with me.

- On the one hand, we're told that normal people should accept those whom are disadvantaged (mental or physical) as one of the same; part of the group; make them feel included and welcome.
- OTOH, we make all manner of special considerations for those who are disadvantaged (special entry points and bathrooms, parking places, easier access to all manner of things).

Frankly, one of my greatest pet-peeves is human hypocrisy.

If the disabled want to be treated equally (and I'm not saying that's wrong), then it should apply to ALL MANNER OF INTERATCTIONS WITH THE BULK OF HUMANITY.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then cut in line in front of me with your wheelchair, at the movie theater line.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get a special parking place because your time and daily events are somehow more important than mine
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get tax breaks for expenditures regarding conditions that I didn't impose upon you; life is just unfair sometimes and I should not have to pay for your misfortune
- etc, etc, etc ...

If you (or your loved one) is "Special Needs", then fine by me, act that way. But along with that comes the burden of knowing you're not "normal" and won't fit in well everywhere.
If you (or your loved one) wants to "fit in" and be considered normal, that's perfectly OK with me, too. But ACT ACCORDINGLY. Don't demand/utilize special privileges.

Comedian Carlos Mencia (fame has come and gone) had a great bit where he made fun of the mental/physically disabled. His mantra was that if you want to be part of the "in" crowd, you take the bad with the good. You don't demand to be treated as an equal, and then act all butt-hurt when someone pokes fun at you in a playful way. And believe it or not, every single event he played at always had a group of "special needs" people that WILLINGLY ATTENDED, not in protest, but in solidarity of his comedic approach. They appreciated the fact that he DIDN'T treat them differently, and he made fun of them just as he made fun of other ethnic groups (including his own), nationalities, social groups, etc. His point was that if you want to belong to the norm, you don't ask for special considerations; you suck it up and overcome with extra efforts. True respect isn't given away in pity; it's earned despite your disadvantage.

In regards to this thread, the adult parent is the real problem here. He wants to "fit in" and play along with society by joining in a "normal" spin-class, and yet bring along his son whom presumably cannot conform to traditional values. This is no different than bringing a crying baby into a movie theater, and then expecting all the other paying patrons to "deal with it". How is the rudeness any different if instead of a crying infant, it's a loud, smelly 20 year old with a disorder? The CHILD is not being rude here; the PARENTS are being rude by expecting others to give up their comforts. Why should my movie or dining experience be tainted by your misfortune? While I am saddened for you, should the entire theater or restaurant suffer because you want a night out?




I'm a big believer in peaceful protests; civil disobedience if you will. (Not riots or destruction). Perhaps the OP can get several other class members whom feel the same as he, and go to management. Tell them that if they don't address the issue, they will take their memberships elsewhere. Nothing gets attention like a lack of revenue! Perhaps the answer is to approach and work WITH, rather than against, the family. Get with the admin staff at the Y and ask if they can put together one or two nights a week for "special needs family night" where two things are known:
1) anyone with a special needs family issues can come to the Y and be among others as a support group; swimming, spinning, raquet ball, etc
2) anyone that does NOT want to deal with those issues, can just not head to the gym on that evening(s) each week



Human hypocrisy. Can't live with it; can't make fun of it.



PS - before you go all Postal on me and tell me I'm a heinous person, just know that I dated a girl for quite some time, whom had an Autistic younger brother living with her, and we included him in many, many activities. But we were also cognizant of the challenges that caused others. Outbursts in movies and restaurants, etc. I would not allow my own healthy children to disrupt the lives of others in a socially unacceptable manner; why should I accept that from anyone else?
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The grand irony here is how society would have us "treat" anyone with a disability. I'm going to take the long way around the block to get to my point, so bare with me.

- On the one hand, we're told that normal people should accept those whom are disadvantaged (mental or physical) as one of the same; part of the group; make them feel included and welcome.
- OTOH, we make all manner of special considerations for those who are disadvantaged (special entry points and bathrooms, parking places, easier access to all manner of things).

Frankly, one of my greatest pet-peeves is human hypocrisy.

If the disabled want to be treated equally (and I'm not saying that's wrong), then it should apply to ALL MANNER OF INTERATCTIONS WITH THE BULK OF HUMANITY.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then cut in line in front of me with your wheelchair, at the movie theater line.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get a special parking place because your time and daily events are somehow more important than mine
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get tax breaks for expenditures regarding conditions that I didn't impose upon you; life is just unfair sometimes and I should not have to pay for your misfortune
- etc, etc, etc ...

If you (or your loved one) is "Special Needs", then fine by me, act that way. But along with that comes the burden of knowing you're not "normal" and won't fit in well everywhere.
If you (or your loved one) wants to "fit in" and be considered normal, that's perfectly OK with me, too. But ACT ACCORDINGLY. Don't demand/utilize special privileges.

Comedian Carlos Mencia (fame has come and gone) had a great bit where he made fun of the mental/physically disabled. His mantra was that if you want to be part of the "in" crowd, you take the bad with the good. You don't demand to be treated as an equal, and then act all butt-hurt when someone pokes fun at you in a playful way. And believe it or not, every single event he played at always had a group of "special needs" people that WILLINGLY ATTENDED, not in protest, but in solidarity of his comedic approach. They appreciated the fact that he DIDN'T treat them differently, and he made fun of them just as he made fun of other ethnic groups (including his own), nationalities, social groups, etc. His point was that if you want to belong to the norm, you don't ask for special considerations; you suck it up and overcome with extra efforts. True respect isn't given away in pity; it's earned despite your disadvantage.


In regards to this thread, the adult parent is the real problem here. He wants to "fit in" and play along with society by joining in a "normal" spin-class, and yet bring along his son whom presumably cannot conform to traditional values.

I'm a big believer in peaceful protests; civil disobedience if you will. (Not riots or destruction). Perhaps the OP can get several other class members whom feel the same as he, and go to management. Tell them that if they don't address the issue, they will take their memberships elsewhere. Nothing gets attention like a lack of revenue!



Human hypocrisy. Can't live with it; can't make fun of it.



PS - before you go all Postal on me and tell me I'm a heinous person, just know that I dated a girl for quite some time, whom had an Autistic younger brother living with her, and we included him in many, many activities. But we were also cognizant of the challenges that caused others. Outbursts in movies and restaurants, etc. I would not allow my own healthy children to disrupt the lives of others in a rude manner; why should I accept that from anyone else?


Am SOOO glad I didn't press the BITOG donate button this afternoon, as always, DNewton steps up to the plate.

my sister needs one of those special privileged parking spaces.

Make EVERY space big enough for the wheelchair hoist to lower the chair...see how many spaces you lose.

If you are going to make a handfull of wheelchairs spaces, you may as well put them together, close to the service, so that you don't end up with ignorant [censored]'s driving behind them honking their horns that they should get out of their way.

seeing as we are editing...an ignorant [censored] who probably smells bad too...
 
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And allow me to counter ...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
... so that you don't end up with ignorant [censored]'s driving behind them honking their horns that they should get out of their way.


If you're "in the way" of someone, why is that? Your own words imply the problem here. To be honked at, you were impeding the flow of traffic. Just because you or loved one is in a wheel chair, does not give you a "right" to block the aisle of a driving lane. Maybe you're getting honked at because you're IN THE WAY.

I will note that this isn't limited to just disabled folks; I've seen many times where a family of 5 is walking through a parking lot, all side-by-side (five abreast) so that no one can get past them. Arrogant parents teaching the next generation.
 
The problem with your diatribe is that you are trying too hard. If that is the hill you want to die on so be it.
It is right there on the line of implying that the biggest problems of your life is due to someone else getting special treatment, with the twist that those specially treated are afforded that due to undeserved social norms.

Perhaps your life needs some self reflection why this is what gets mad and you that you can't afford special treatment to others. Why does this bevcome the straw that you snap at. It seems so petty that you cannot give the consessions, if you have a fulfilled life. Would you want to trade places even with the perk? Do you think a rich person or a trust fund baby would spend this much mental energy getting worked up on this?
Plus if you are really are railing against unfairness, there are far greater undeserved inequalities.
Think about the people you would want to trade places with, who are perhaps undeserving.
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The grand irony here is how society would have us "treat" anyone with a disability. I'm going to take the long way around the block to get to my point, so bare with me.

- On the one hand, we're told that normal people should accept those whom are disadvantaged (mental or physical) as one of the same; part of the group; make them feel included and welcome.
- OTOH, we make all manner of special considerations for those who are disadvantaged (special entry points and bathrooms, parking places, easier access to all manner of things).

Frankly, one of my greatest pet-peeves is human hypocrisy.

If the disabled want to be treated equally (and I'm not saying that's wrong), then it should apply to ALL MANNER OF INTERATCTIONS WITH THE BULK OF HUMANITY.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then cut in line in front of me with your wheelchair, at the movie theater line.
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get a special parking place because your time and daily events are somehow more important than mine
- Don't tell me you're my equal, but then get tax breaks for expenditures regarding conditions that I didn't impose upon you; life is just unfair sometimes and I should not have to pay for your misfortune
- etc, etc, etc ...

If you (or your loved one) is "Special Needs", then fine by me, act that way. But along with that comes the burden of knowing you're not "normal" and won't fit in well everywhere.
If you (or your loved one) wants to "fit in" and be considered normal, that's perfectly OK with me, too. But ACT ACCORDINGLY. Don't demand/utilize special privileges.

Comedian Carlos Mencia (fame has come and gone) had a great bit where he made fun of the mental/physically disabled. His mantra was that if you want to be part of the "in" crowd, you take the bad with the good. You don't demand to be treated as an equal, and then act all butt-hurt when someone pokes fun at you in a playful way. And believe it or not, every single event he played at always had a group of "special needs" people that WILLINGLY ATTENDED, not in protest, but in solidarity of his comedic approach. They appreciated the fact that he DIDN'T treat them differently, and he made fun of them just as he made fun of other ethnic groups (including his own), nationalities, social groups, etc. His point was that if you want to belong to the norm, you don't ask for special considerations; you suck it up and overcome with extra efforts. True respect isn't given away in pity; it's earned despite your disadvantage.

In regards to this thread, the adult parent is the real problem here. He wants to "fit in" and play along with society by joining in a "normal" spin-class, and yet bring along his son whom presumably cannot conform to traditional values. This is no different than bringing a crying baby into a movie theater, and then expecting all the other paying patrons to "deal with it". How is the rudeness any different if instead of a crying infant, it's a loud, smelly 20 year old with a disorder? The CHILD is not being rude here; the PARENTS are being rude by expecting others to give up their comforts. Why should my movie or dining experience be tainted by your misfortune? While I am saddened for you, should the entire theater or restaurant suffer because you want a night out?




I'm a big believer in peaceful protests; civil disobedience if you will. (Not riots or destruction). Perhaps the OP can get several other class members whom feel the same as he, and go to management. Tell them that if they don't address the issue, they will take their memberships elsewhere. Nothing gets attention like a lack of revenue! Perhaps the answer is to approach and work WITH, rather than against, the family. Get with the admin staff at the Y and ask if they can put together one or two nights a week for "special needs family night" where two things are known:
1) anyone with a special needs family issues can come to the Y and be among others as a support group; swimming, spinning, raquet ball, etc
2) anyone that does NOT want to deal with those issues, can just not head to the gym on that evening(s) each week



Human hypocrisy. Can't live with it; can't make fun of it.



PS - before you go all Postal on me and tell me I'm a heinous person, just know that I dated a girl for quite some time, whom had an Autistic younger brother living with her, and we included him in many, many activities. But we were also cognizant of the challenges that caused others. Outbursts in movies and restaurants, etc. I would not allow my own healthy children to disrupt the lives of others in a socially unacceptable manner; why should I accept that from anyone else?


dnewton3:

It sounds like you would be the type of guy who would demand service from a "normal" person. This is my son. Sorry he annoys you.

Scott

http://www.ksby.com/story/35436861/atascadero-man-a-lesson-in-joy-resilience
 
I remember my comments getting deleted in some puppy/dog thread where the dog died and I said something to the effect "buy another one and get over it". Lots of people in that thread were all so sorry for such a big loss, some even admitted they cried.

Yup, but you try to show some compassion to another human being and all of the sudden you're a spineless bleeding heart type.

I'm fortunate to have all of my children perfectly healthy and it's still so much work around them. I cannot even imagine having a disabled child, dealing with all the day to day chores/problems and on top of that jerks like in this thread.

Show some compassion jerks!
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
..... the adult parent is the real problem here. He wants to "fit in" and play along with society by joining in a "normal" spin-class, and yet bring along his son whom presumably cannot conform to traditional values. .....


Yeah, that Dad .... what a despicable piece of trash he must be ..... the unmitigated gall of wanting to provide a disadvantaged child some vestige of a normal existence .... and the imposition of flatulence on somebody's sensitive sniffer ... what a terrible cross that must be to have to bear. I can't even imagine having to deal with that kind of agony to ride a bicycle that doesn't even go anywhere.

I've complained a lot about the ADA. I'll complain about it in the future. It's cost me real money. When I see people enjoy something that they might not otherwise because an elevator was installed that would have not been there, or the relief of using a real bathroom instead of having to wear an adult diaper ... you know what, it's just money. In this example, it's just flatulence for the love of Pete. It's gone in a few minutes. Light a darn match. It's hard for me to imagine someone not being able to handle THAT.

People complain about the "me" mindset. It's here on display.
 
This is the best advice you have received. This Y and the instructor are not going to do anything about it, so you have to decide which bothers you more, the flatulent kid or a different time slot and make you plans accordingly.

I have to wonder how small is the room?

If enough people stop attending that class, if it's anything like my Y, they will cancel the class.

I spin 2-3x/week and find the 05:30AM class works for me.

But when I'm on-call, I do find that mid morning classes have the most 30 something soccer moms. The early and late classes are full of us 50 somethings....

Originally Posted By: dogememe
forget about it or go to a different class
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
...

Find a new gym. You have an easy solution. The parents do not.


End of thread. Spot on my friend.
 
I have an autistic brother(I wouldn't be surprised if I had a few of those genes myself) and I had my moments where I lost control over things I have no control over. He's improved dramatically as an adult but I worry about the future as my parents aren't going to be around forever. I want to start a family eventually and as much as I don't want to worry about him, something needs to be done and there ain't enough resources/funding to support people on the autism spectrum especially when there's an organization that demonizes them - which higher functioning ones take offense to. It's a spectrum, someone with autism or asperger's can be a total clean freak and even more fastidious than a cat when it comes to personal hygiene or someone who needs to be bathed by an caretaker. Autistics are known for a higher rate than usual for GI issues, autism is a sensory disorder and the feel/taste of certain foods is enough for one to go into a tailspin. My brother doesn't like eating his veggies or salads, he loves processed cheese. My parents have to give him a fiber supplement.

The only advice I have is talk to the dad and apologize, maybe over coffee or a beer. Eventually you will have to make the decision to either stay at that class, go to a different one or spend $30ish a session at Soulcycle. Empathy and understanding is really what you have at this moment. It's not your job to tell him how to parent, the kid's dad can figure that out or hire someone.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
And allow me to counter ...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
... so that you don't end up with ignorant [censored]'s driving behind them honking their horns that they should get out of their way.


If you're "in the way" of someone, why is that? Your own words imply the problem here. To be honked at, you were impeding the flow of traffic. Just because you or loved one is in a wheel chair, does not give you a "right" to block the aisle of a driving lane. Maybe you're getting honked at because you're IN THE WAY.


No, each and every one has has a right to free passage...it's simple isn't it ?

Carparks are shared spaces...by design.

If there's a person in a wheelchair going one way, and a car coming the other, and YOU just happen to be travelling in the same direction of travel as the person in the chair, and get "stuck" behind them, then blowing your horn is the act of an ignorant [censored].

And trying to justify it in the manner here just ices that cake.

They CAN'T get out of your way ? they don't fit between the parked cars so that you can save that 6 seconds of your mmiserable lot.

remember...carparks are shared spaces...you are acting as though they are riding down the middle of your lane on the interstate, which is entirely different.

Here's an example of what people such as yourself DO to prove a point to thise priviliged minority in wheelchairs.

One night my sis finished a shift as a volunteer social worker at lifeline. Came out to the carpark at 2AM, and some sacnctimoneous tool had parked a motorbike right next to her door, in the disables space...after all, why SHOULD she have access to big spaces, per your rant.

Rang the cops, not their gig, it's parking.

So she opened the hatchback, and crawled in, pulled the chair in after herself, and crawled trough the back of the car towards the front. Got stuck negotiating over gearshift and handbrake, and snapped her femur.

Drove herself to the hospital, in quite a bit of pain, the pulled up to ER and started wailing on the the horn for attention.

Sanctimonious guy on the motorbike never got to enjoy the fruits of his efforts, for proving his point to the priviliged disables.
 
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Wow! Thank the Lord most people don’t have handicapped children. This post breaks my heart. My heart breaks for “some” of you as well
frown.gif



Give you an example...Sis was born in 1970 with Spina Bifida.
Docters at the time suggested the viking method of dealing with it. Stop food and water and make it quick, or do everything LEGALLY necessary (food) and have it drag on. Parents opted to do everything medially possible (48 years on, she's still here, and a productive member of society).
School age - there's no room for disaabled kids in schools in this state, put her in an institution with "others like her", and you ccan visit on the weekends.

So we moved to another state, parents without any jobs to go to (Dad become a Janitor/night watchman for a couple of years, allowing him to be a stayathome dad, while mum went teaching.

Long story short, she got a Psychology degree, was quite successful at work, buying and (in the process of) paying off a house.

Wanted a change, so took a separation payment from her employer, and took a year to get her masters of Psychology (they learned NLP, which is a story for another day).

An example of the privilige that these people find themselves in.
* due to her paralysis, her kidneys are diverted to a "stoma", and drain into a bag. This was done and revised on the taxpayer $ as part of our national health stuff.
* 5 years ago it wasn't working right, and leakage was causing her to have to go home for a clean-up (they have disabled toilets in offices, not disabled showers like the cyclinsts get)...so she needed a revision.
* Wasn't a health issue according to medicare, as she wasn't at risk. Private health said it waas pre-existing.
* $10k out of her own pocket, she was back at work, not having leaks, and being productive again.

Note, at no stage has she EVER considered staying hom on disability, as her "peers" have elected to do.
 
Originally Posted By: KGMtech
So last Monday evening, we are 15 minutes into a 45 minute class and this kid has released 3 loud bombs, stinking up the room. I blurted out:
"Really xxxxx, 3 times already? !!" The kid doesn't know I was talking to him, he's totally un-aware of people talking to him - aside from his family members.

At the end of the class, I ask the father to do something about this issue. The father explains to me that he can't do anything and the kid can't control his body. I reacted by saying "so this is now my problem?" father just shakes his head and retreats, I asked him if they could get him to have a bowel movement before class, or feed him dinner after class, not before. No response from the father.

The kid is harmless, he's never going to be independent and his only infraction is 4 years of stink bombs. Yes, I am not going to win any awards for empathy, compassion, but in defence of myself - it did take 4 years for me to blow up on this issue. I feel for the parents, this is a hard cross to bear, I didn't make it any lighter.

I don't know much about autistic spectrum, other than we have a niece who is on that spectrum, but she is no where near this poor kid.

I am considering that for next Monday, if the Dad and son are attending, I will apologise for my outburst. Maybe ask the kid to pull my finger?

What would you do?


If you feel bad, make the peace.

Kids with autism are many times more likely than you and I to have stomach issues. (Some see that as a cause, others as a side issue, not comment from me on either).

Maybe do a little research yourself, download a few articles, and in making the peace offer that you've read and understand a little better that this is a common issue with these kids, and maybe probiotics, charcoal tabs, or
whatever can help that little bit for everyone.
 
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