kids/childrens' sports / thoughts

[John105]

My son started ice hockey this fall, I guess you could say at a later age, 10. He has buddies that have been playing 5-6 years already (not on the same team or league). Personally, I don't think it's too late to learn as long as there are kids of the same ability, and the child has a sincere interest.

As I mentioned, my son only learned to ride a bike this year. He also achieved his junior black belt. I feel timing is part of it, and it's like a crime: means motive opportunity.

I once had a coworker who got hot just talking about baseball, he told me there are parents out their who start their kids at 9, and expect him (coach) to give them a chance to play. He criticized the parents and made it sound like the kids have no business attempting baseball at such a late age lol I get it, they are around that age at the Little League World Series, but not everyone has to play at that level.

What dawns on me are a few things that I knew already....the cost, and the time parents spend. We only have 1 so it's manageable in both regards. But parents who have 3+ kids they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and sports, both fees and equipment is expensive. I'd almost say more than what a middle class family can afford. I made a joke, it's not even the equipment that's huge for ice hockey, it's the $100k Suburban you need to go along with it.

I tell coworkers I always wanted to complain about having to drive my kid at crazy hours, and the cost of equipment. Now I officially can. And they laughed.

We got so much hand me down gear that I was only out $370, including a sweet roller bag. But we faced our first setback--son complained 2 weeks in a row that the hand me down helmet hurts his head (it is expired and someone told me that might be one thing to consider going new). Since the hand me down has a full visor and he's used to it, I spec'd that on the replacement, and I got the 2nd to the bottom of the line. Unfortunately the helmet is $197 shipped, they don't have it locally ($17 shipping). I may not always spend $197 on myself, but for some reason, I feel happy doing it for my son.

Lastly, my buddy said he played soccer from 1st grade through 12th, on varsity HS and travel, and when he looks back, it's amazing that with all that time put in, he was a solid player, but admittedly, in the middle of the pack (not say a DIV I type candidate). What's it all for, why do we sometimes place such a high priority on sports....enjoyment? College apps? It's a very normal part of our parental lives imho...

 

[GSCJR]

My son is now 17, he's been playing soccer since he was four. He played at the highest level, a traveling team, that represented our town. Being Canadians, we felt he and his older sister should learn to skate, which they did. A couple of years later at the age of 8, most start at 5 or 6 here, he started playing organized hockey and he was just okay at it. None the less, a choice in sport had to be made due to scheduling conflicts and soccer was the one he chose. He's still playing but no longer at the top. Just to give you and idea of his skill, when he was 10 he was selected to represent his school over other students that were 13 and 14, he's currently in his fourth season on his senior high school team and still plays for our town. Soccer has kept him busy and out of trouble, period. He has as gone as far as also getting his refereeing qualifications and works as a soccer referee, but also volunteers as a ref for his high school. On the weekends, he plays in a men's league, games are at 7:30AM. He's been playing in that league since he was 14, all on his accord, I just drive him there. We were up at 6:30AM this morning, he never complains, even after all these years, so clearly he still enjoys it and I do too.

 

[ATex7239]

Sports and martial arts help to instill the values of discipline, work ethic, teamwork, and physical fitness. It is also suppose to teach athletes how to properly deal with stress, struggle, failure and success. It’s more about the life skills than anything.

Only 1% or so of athletes will play at the college level and even less than 1% of those will go pro. Many overbearing coaches and parents forget this fact or are somewhat delusional in thinking theirs are always the exception.

I have coached soccer and BJJ. The parents are the worst part about it most times. I would not tolerate overbearing parents making things difficult for my players and students. Soccer was harder to regulate as most of the individual who were “way too involved” let’s call it also played before. BJJ was very easy to regulate… Well, Mr/Mrs Crazy, Loud *** Parent, the adult class is right after the kids class. We have Gi’s you can borrow and the first class is free. If you don’t understand why your kid is struggling and think it’s so easy then come on the mat and get you some. Show ‘em how it’s done.

Kid sports are tough man. Money, time, injuries, personalities, all of it.

Oh, and $45K minivan > $100K SUV for people and gear hauling. Dropping six figures on a truck then poor mouthing on a couple hundred for gear is silly.

 

[dkryan]

 

[dkryan]

Sports and martial arts help to instill the values of discipline, work ethic, teamwork, and physical fitness. It is also suppose to teach athletes how to properly deal with stress, struggle, failure and success. It’s more about the life skills than anything.

Only 1% or so of athletes will play at the college level and even less than 1% of those will go pro. Many overbearing coaches and parents forget this fact or are somewhat delusional in thinking theirs are always the exception.

I have coached soccer and BJJ. The parents are the worst part about it most times. I would not tolerate overbearing parents making things difficult for my players and students. Soccer was harder to regulate as most of the individual who were “way too involved” let’s call it also played before. BJJ was very easy to regulate… Well, Mr/Mrs Crazy, Loud *** Parent, the adult class is right after the kids class. We have Gi’s you can borrow and the first class is free. If you don’t understand why your kid is struggling and think it’s so easy then come on the mat and get you some. Show ‘em how it’s done.

Kid sports are tough man. Money, time, injuries, personalities, all of it.

Oh, and $45K minivan > $100K SUV for people and gear hauling. Dropping six figures on a truck then poor mouthing on a couple hundred for gear is silly.

 

[edyvw]

I came to the US on an athletic scholarship as an assistant coach to 7-time national champion team. During my studies, I was given tennis lessons as I was a poor student, and the money was good.
I did not play tennis 14yrs because of trauma caused by parents of the kids I was giving lessons.

 

[SevenBizzos]

We're a baseball family. My wife and I both played softball every weekend into our 40s and then passed the torch to our son. When every thing (equipment, travel, food, fuel, etc.) is added up it likely costs us over $10k a year. And it's worth every penny of it.

 

[John105]

Sports and martial arts help to instill the values of discipline, work ethic, teamwork, and physical fitness. It is also suppose to teach athletes how to properly deal with stress, struggle, failure and success. It’s more about the life skills than anything.

Only 1% or so of athletes will play at the college level and even less than 1% of those will go pro. Many overbearing coaches and parents forget this fact or are somewhat delusional in thinking theirs are always the exception.

I have coached soccer and BJJ. The parents are the worst part about it most times. I would not tolerate overbearing parents making things difficult for my players and students. Soccer was harder to regulate as most of the individual who were “way too involved” let’s call it also played before. BJJ was very easy to regulate… Well, Mr/Mrs Crazy, Loud *** Parent, the adult class is right after the kids class. We have Gi’s you can borrow and the first class is free. If you don’t understand why your kid is struggling and think it’s so easy then come on the mat and get you some. Show ‘em how it’s done.

Kid sports are tough man. Money, time, injuries, personalities, all of it.

Oh, and $45K minivan > $100K SUV for people and gear hauling. Dropping six figures on a truck then poor mouthing on a couple hundred for gear is silly.

It’s funny I’ve read the comments about HOAs etc. Anyway, my wife’s coworker said her husband is on “the board” of the hockey league. So I simply followed my instructions via text, signed him up, no tryouts, and come first practice, kids have 2-3 years experience, not zero. So my kid was clearly out of place but he practiced. Every time he put the puck in the net during drills, all the team members tapped their sticks.

So along the lines of what you said, now my kid is on the wrong team, how is this gonna get fixed? I think the people were worried what if I got upset and insisted my son stay on the team? But it didn’t go that way which I think reflected well on me, and even more so, the league. I mean he is just learning.

But the flaw was the fact that my wife’s coworker’s husband is on the board and he contacted the president. I know that shouldn’t have happened but it wasn’t my idea

Also I’ve seen the light. As soon as they open tomorrow, I’m telling the Cadillac dealer I changed my mind on the Platinum Sport ESV with the 275 speaker sound system

Ps by age 10 I know I would have been self conscious and likely not wanted to try something new. I’m really happy my son likes ice hockey.

 

[BrianF]

I have friends who's kids started playing hockey well before ten years old. Some play some high level now. WHL and NHL. Hockey is big here but I never really cared for it. I'm not a sports guy.

In these parts, if your kids do not start early, don't bother, it's nearly impossible to catch up. Same as the dance cult.

I used to criticize these people for pushing their kids hard very early on. Then I see my kids, who we introduced early on to horses and riding. My 15 year old is a very competitive dressage rider who places well against western Canadians and US riders, some who have been riding almost as long as I've been alive. This is from my wife and her training and lesson programs. My 14 year old is less experienced but actually a better rider and more teachable. She hates dressage but is going to do it because she is awesome. She also is good at landing when getting bucked or tossed off while jumping. Only minor injuries compared to my oldest who's had several broken bones.

This would not be possible if we did not introduce them early on and push them.

Cost? Because we we do a majority of the work ourselves, kept the horses on our acreage, etc, it's been affordable. I could not afford this for my kids if we had to board elsewhere and pay for lessons, it would be a no go. I also do not have the work flexibility to drive my kids all over the place every week at whatever hour foe hockey.

 

[ATex7239]

Also I’ve seen the light. As soon as they open tomorrow, I’m telling the Cadillac dealer I changed my mind on the Platinum Sport ESV with the 275 speaker sound system

Don’t forget to bellyache when gas goes up 10 cents or oil costs more than $2 a quart.

 

[GSCJR]

Only 1% or so of athletes will play at the college level and even less than 1% of those will go pro. Many overbearing coaches and parents forget this fact or are somewhat delusional in thinking theirs are always the exception.

+1

My son already decided he will not play next year in university, despite his coach telling him he's capable. If he was going to go pro, that should have happened a long time ago.

 

[John105]

I’m

I have friends who's kids started playing hockey well before ten years old. Some play some high level now. WHL and NHL. Hockey is big here but I never really cared for it. I'm not a sports guy.

In these parts, if your kids do not start early, don't bother, it's nearly impossible to catch up. Same as the dance cult.

I used to criticize these people for pushing their kids hard very early on. Then I see my kids, who we introduced early on to horses and riding. My 15 year old is a very competitive dressage rider who places well against western Canadians and US riders, some who have been riding almost as long as I've been alive. This is from my wife and her training and lesson programs. My 14 year old is less experienced but actually a better rider and more teachable. She hates dressage but is going to do it because she is awesome. She also is good at landing when getting bucked or tossed off while jumping. Only minor injuries compared to my oldest who's had several broken bones.

This would not be possible if we did not introduce them early on and push them.

Cost? Because we we do a majority of the work ourselves, kept the horses on our acreage, etc, it's been affordable. I could not afford this for my kids if we had to board elsewhere and pay for lessons, it would be a no go. I also do not have the work flexibility to drive my kids all over the place every week at whatever hour foe hockey.

I was told in Toronto, by a vendor, that every parent thinks their kid is headed to the NHL, they're the next Stamkos or PK Subban, which couldn't be further from the truth. Then, I found a stat that .002 (2/10 of 1%) would ever play in a single NHL game, and even less than that would be in the league. To top that off, surprisingly, the avg. NHL career is six years. Talk about a for the most part unrealistic goal? It's easier to get into an elite college, which runs under 4% these days for acceptance, unlike in my time, 19% was the most competitive and 39% was the easiest (elite colleges).

Now with the above odds, wouldn't you know the Stanley Cup came to my hometown because of a kid who graduated a prep school in 2006. A 4th liner with the Blackhawks. The town next to where I grew up, also has a prep school that 5 NHL'ers went to. But being private schools, that means kids sought them out, they didn't just happen to grow up in these two towns.

The good thing about it imho from my perspective, is it's not really all about the competition for me as a parent. It's more about getting involved and not shutting the door and playing video games or doing YouTube all day and night...

 

[benjamming]

I have two boys (4 years apart in age) that play hockey in north Alabama. Both started at age 4. House league only. Anything more is too much money but especially too much time committment as it takes too much away from more important things. House league here is pretty good about getting all players on the ice an almost equal time since they do shifts. Of course, some coaches are better at this than others to resist the urge to go for the win at all costs. I imagine this changes with travel but whatever.

But wow the vicarious living folks do coupled with inevitable pressure they put on their kids if only implicitly (many times it's explicit). Sad that this is the pinnancle of their life priorities. So much more to life but is dressed up under the guise of how many life's lessons they learn! Granted, there are indeed many disciplines that can be taught but many times it's just a cover for them.

Oh & beware buying some of the gear online as sizing is wonky at least for hockey pants & shoulder pads! Pro shop at the rink, here anyway, has same pricing as new online unless on clearance but you get to try on all the stuff first. We've started heat molding their skates now (actually bought some that could be done!) & that's a nice touch with no extra cost when bought at the pro shop.

We have a lot of fun with it & both boys really enjoy it. My daughter has even learned how to ice skate (at age 10) so she can go out with her brothers at a public stick & puck & end of year team parties.

We are all excited about the season starting Saturday, 10/12! But to maintain that balance...

 

[John105]

I have two boys (4 years apart in age) that play hockey in north Alabama. Both started at age 4. House league only. Anything more is too much money but especially too much time committment as it takes too much away from more important things. House league here is pretty good about getting all players on the ice an almost equal time since they do shifts. Of course, some coaches are better at this than others to resist the urge to go for the win at all costs. I imagine this changes with travel but whatever.

But wow the vicarious living folks do coupled with inevitable pressure they put on their kids if only implicitly (many times it's explicit). Sad that this is the pinnancle of their life priorities. So much more to life but is dressed up under the guise of how many life's lessons they learn! Granted, there are indeed many disciplines that can be taught but many times it's just a cover for them.

Oh & beware buying some of the gear online as sizing is wonky at least for hockey pants & shoulder pads! Pro shop at the rink, here anyway, has same pricing as new online unless on clearance but you get to try on all the stuff first. We've started heat molding their skates now (actually bought some that could be done!) & that's a nice touch with no extra cost when bought at the pro shop.

We have a lot of fun with it & both boys really enjoy it. My daughter has even learned how to ice skate (at age 10) so she can go out with her brothers at a public stick & puck & end of year team parties.

We are all excited about the season starting Saturday, 10/12! But to maintain that balance...

The vicarious living, am I guilty? Probably. There’s no pressure, son wanted to do it. He had elementary school buddies who all play. Again difference with me is I likely would not want to learn when my friends are already really good.

As I got older I felt this didnt matter.

My dad told me you will go to Yale and become a doctor. End of story. Was he living vicariously? I think so. As he was an engineer.

As a 9th grader I still remember Butch Jones’ dad screaming at his son for blowing the game as QB. Butch was crying and I wanted to say Mr Jones, he did ok. But Butch was supposed to go to West Point and I guess crying at 14 didn’t cut it. But in front of his gf was particularly mean imho.

Again I think it’s all in fun and just getting out and doing things. But real life is means motive opportunity. My order of making it happen would go opportunity, means, and motive. Motive is more of an intangible. Why play violin and not xylophone? My son chose the latter.

On Saturday at the township day my wife inquired about Boy Scouts. The leader explained how it works and then said 5th grade would be Cub Scouts. Again if my son became a great scout, who knows if I would be living vicariously, just seems like positive values to be learned.

There is “something” to helping a little old lady cross the street. Today, I cannot tell you how many times I get in an elevator, and say “good morning,” and hear crickets. It’s 2024, most don’t do that anymore. Nor how many times a person in front of me lets the door close rather than holding it. Just wasn’t raised that way.

P.s. I heard the University now has an ice hockey team…Roll Tide!

 

[RhondaHonda]

I just want my kids to do something active and not spend the day in front of the tv or computer. Between the 3, we have them in a variety of things: Volleyball, basketball, softball, soccer, swimming and horses. The oldest really likes volleyball and now plays on a club team. It’s almost year round at this point for her so I don’t love that things are sos specialized at age 10 but it’s her favorite sport and she likes it. She tried out for basketball but made a mature decision and opted not to play at that level this season as she realized it wouldn’t work with volleyball.

The nice thing is they can start out at really any age on a CYC (Catholic) or local community team here to try a sport. It’s minimal cost / time commitment and if it’s something they want to get more involved with, there are options at the club/travel team levels. I don’t have any illusions about my kids playing Division I sports. If they are good enough and want to, I’ll support them but this is really just supporting them being active and part of a team.

 

[Pablo]

Sports are great for kids.

Too bad idiot parents are usually the cause of most all strife/problems in yude sports.

Too many zombie indoor kids these days. Get you axsse off that screen and go play ball. Fatties and future Type II's here we come. Psychos are up too. Kids need to to be active, learn to be active and stay active! Burn off all the junk!!!!!!

 

[doitmyself]

The vicarious living, am I guilty? Probably. There’s no pressure, son wanted to do it. He had elementary school buddies who all play. Again difference with me is I likely would not want to learn when my friends are already really good.

As I got older I felt this didnt matter.

My dad told me you will go to Yale and become a doctor. End of story. Was he living vicariously? I think so. As he was an engineer.

As a 9th grader I still remember Butch Jones’ dad screaming at his son for blowing the game as QB. Butch was crying and I wanted to say Mr Jones, he did ok. But Butch was supposed to go to West Point and I guess crying at 14 didn’t cut it. But in front of his gf was particularly mean imho.

Again I think it’s all in fun and just getting out and doing things. But real life is means motive opportunity. My order of making it happen would go opportunity, means, and motive. Motive is more of an intangible. Why play violin and not xylophone? My son chose the latter.

On Saturday at the township day my wife inquired about Boy Scouts. The leader explained how it works and then said 5th grade would be Cub Scouts. Again if my son became a great scout, who knows if I would be living vicariously, just seems like positive values to be learned.

There is “something” to helping a little old lady cross the street. Today, I cannot tell you how many times I get in an elevator, and say “good morning,” and hear crickets. It’s 2024, most don’t do that anymore. Nor how many times a person in front of me lets the door close rather than holding it. Just wasn’t raised that way.

P.s. I heard the University now has an ice hockey team…Roll Tide!

John105, you are coming across just a tiny bit defensive, which is fine. Pablo sums it up well. A balance between couch potato teen and vicarious parent pushed over-stressed teen is in order. I've seen and have been a part of both the positive and negative aspects of child rearing. In our case, 4-H competition got a bit out of hand. Yes, showing pigs (any livestock) can be ultra competitive. My adult daughter shared with me the mental scars she incurred. Sigh, if only parenting came with a rule book.

Now, my young adult grand daughter rides competitively at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala Florida. Go Figure.
Horse people - ugh! LOL. Grand parenting rules - spoil them and send them back to the parents!

 

[John105]

John105, you are coming across just a tiny bit defensive, which is fine. Pablo sums it up well. A balance between couch potato teen and vicarious parent pushed over-stressed teen is in order. I've seen and have been a part of both the positive and negative aspects of child rearing. In our case, 4-H competition got a bit out of hand. Yes, showing pigs (any livestock) can be ultra competitive. My adult daughter shared with me the mental scars she incurred. Sigh, if only parenting came with a rule book.

Now, my young adult grand daughter rides competitively at the World Equestrian Center in Ocala Florida. Go Figure.
Horse people - ugh! LOL. Grand parenting rules - spoil them and send them back to the parents!
View attachment 244131

If I’m coming across as defensive, don’t mean to be. What I’m trying to get across is I’m not looking for my son to be 16U AAA nor does he have to wear the C, nor even be as good as other 5th graders. I’m a huge hockey fan and so really glad my son decided to take up the sport. Honestly? If he wanted figure skating, I’d support it, but in that case no, I would not living vicariously at all.

That’s about it. There is really nothing to read that is in between the lines.

I did have my kid on skates at 1 1/2. Even my buddy who coaches in CO said that is not necessary. As a matter of fact he can start at 6-7. 4 is not necessary either.

The other point I was trying to make is when I was a kid, things were different. I got the living daylights kicked out of me in 6th grade by greg Kirk. He was 6’. The elementary (my school was 7th and 8th for middle school) cheered. It was a different era. I learned to use my fists by 7th grade and back then, the instigator and bullied both got the same punishment, so risk v reward was there for bullies.

Seriously, it comes down to opportunity, means, and lastly motive.

My upbringing was different. My parents were not my friends, nor did they accept going to a non elite college. Need to be all AP and SATs better be nearly perfect on your own. Today kids are tutored I hear.

I don’t have that expectation of my son. Honestly I’m learning too, from the responses on this thread. It’s all good. At the end of the day I’d love that my kid is normal, respects others, and has friends.

 

[IndyIan]

I think sports has a few pathways to being worthwhile, but the drive to specialize so much into one sport early is a bit short sighted for almost all the athletes. It only really benefits the few who are exceptional natural athletes and lucky enough enough to be a sport that their talents are suited too.
I think the Norway model is probably the best combination of overall benefit to society and producing the highest level of athletes, as up to age 13 kids can do a variety of sports, and develop all body movement skills, and then they can see what they like, and for the few exceptional athletes, they can match their skills to a sport that they like and will be successful at. https://projectplay.org/world-sport-systems/norway

Last year was our first year at Rep baseball at 12U and it was an interesting experience, more competitive but still coached by parents which kind of skews playing time and positions a bit. More time consuming for sure and they like to pick expensive hotels! He is playing again next year though, and still going to miss a few games and practices to do other things. It's becoming more apparent that being a good overall athlete is starting to make a bigger difference, not being lazy, understanding the plays available, and being a fraction quicker allows more steals, more caught hits, etc, as the games are getting tighter and tighter
.
One of the Dad's is professional hockey coach and did coach the team at U11, but doesn't have the time now that he's head coach. He made it as high as the AHL as enforcer type player and he is always interesting to listen to, the stories, and his perspective on youth sports today. His perspective there's too many average athletes getting exceptional expensive training to make teams when they are young, and then spending all their time practicing one sport they won't make high level team at when they are older... They won't make high level at any sport, so don't sacrifice other non-sports opportunities for their whole childhood.

 

[mk378]

I understand that playing to win is an important philosophy, but there is no joy in being a bench warmer. Third-string pro athletes do it because they are being paid, and they don't need to play in actual games to build fitness and game skills since the team has a gym and practice field.