VW Oil Help, Again

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
but I get ~28 highway

LOL

It is possible, downhill, with 11% grade lol


I'm actually quite serious. I averaged 28Mpg from Sackville, New Brunswick, back to central Ontario. This was with the cruise set of course at ~120-ish Km/h, over a 1,528Km trip and being in 6th gear nearly 100% of the time on a 4-lane highway with no need for downshift-overtakes that would have lowered the average.

I did say 100% highway, LOL! I wouldn't expect to get that going up to the cottage or something where I start in town and there is plenty of 2-lane highway with overtakes and stuff, even though it would still be a trip that would be considered "highway".

Long trips like that are the only time I bother to track my gas mileage. I horse on the car too much the rest of the time for there to be any reason to

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No my Evo didn't have near 1000hp but one thing is the Evo did everything "very well" I loved the evo for it being so well rounded. My Evo was making more hp per liter though then those 500+ hp cars. On E85 I was running 400whp but on 91 pump was 340whp while getting 25 hwy 19 cty that's just amazing to me.

The Evo had to go. I was getting to wrecklesd with it. I do miss it though.

Jeff


Ahhh, OK, well that's not that bad then. Similar power output to my M5 (on 91 pump). I don't track city MPG, but I get ~28 highway, which isn't bad for a good sized sedan. It does everything well too, which is why I'm incredibly fond of it. And the flat torque curve makes it feel faster than it actually is.

Have you test driven an M3? You might find it a better match for you than the GTI......... IMHO. Just based on what you've said about the EVO.


I drove a 2006 M3 coupe with the auto trans. Was my sisters boy friends car. I wasn't impressed with that particular car and how he had it set up

I also drove my friends 335 4dr 6 spd tuned to about 450whp now that was more my style he he

Jeff


Have you considered going to the dealer and test driving a newer one that somebody hasn't messed with? LOL

Sounds like the 335i was setup quite nicely BTW

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.

If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?

Jeff



Use either, and go drive that car and enjoy it. Every second spent posting is a second not spent driving.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

First off, Thanks everyone for all your input. I am just trying to gather some information and make a good decision. Yes better testing would be good, yes, using a 504 oil and testing it for 20K 30K miles would make for good tests, but the more I research, the more dirt I find on the subject. The 504 oil is no silver bullet I am finding out. The studies from Europe on 504 oil may not apply here (the USA) so simply. Our Gas is different, our driving style is different, our speeds are different, just MANY variables that make or break an oil, 504 or not.

What I am finding out IMO is that the 502 oil is best suited for our market for the Higher TBN for several reasons. 1) EDI's that VW has of 10K miles. I do not feel that with a 504 oil in our market with this engine 10K intervals would be wise. I base this on UOA's of 504 oils on this website. 2) our gas quality is good, but not as good as EU. So the 502 oil may be better at combating carbon within the combustion chamber itself (piston rings etc).

Now all this is speculation since I do not have my own evidence to present, but it makes sense. Maybe for my particular case it would be best to just continue using a 502 oil, and do an Italian Tune Up by going on the freeway and dropping gears to maintain 4K rpm's for 15 min or so every month or so. Maybe that will be adequate to offset things? No one really knows.

The 504 Oils are intriguing and I am curious about them, would not mind trying them, I think they have a higher ester base, have some kind of additive to them to combat wear and such that just may not be noticed on most UOA's. M1 5w30 ESP starts out with a TBN of 5 and by using this oil may offset some intake valve deposits but would take years to find out. In some other countries the intake deposits were bad at 9K miles already, though that country had high sulfur content in their gas. I think it was Australia.

I am using M1 0w40 and the car seems to like it. It starts up quick, engine is quiet, gets decent MPG's and I can buy it at WalMart in a 5 qt jug for $22. I mean you just cant beat it. I would prefer to continue using this oil vs the dealer using Castrol. Nothing against Castrol, I just have never been a fan of the stuff.

So I will continue gathering some info on the 504 Oil and see what I will do. I am not due for an oil change for another 1K miles or so, so I have a month to decide.

If anyone has any other idea or something realistic to try let me know. I would like whats best for the car. Thats all.

Jeff

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

My friends BMW 335 4 dr is pretty bad [censored]. I must admit. I am not sure of all he has done to it, but I know he runs a custom tune, runs WMI @ 70/30 ratio, custom exhaust, revised rear end gear ratio's, EU front end, and was dyno'd at 470rwhp. He likes to drap race, and when I had my Evo I liked the road course, when he drove my Evo he smiled, when I drove his BMW I smiled, we had a mutual respect for each others car.

Jeff

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
My friends BMW 335 4 dr is pretty bad [censored]. I must admit. I am not sure of all he has done to it, but I know he runs a custom tune, runs WMI @ 70/30 ratio, custom exhaust, revised rear end gear ratio's, EU front end, and was dyno'd at 470rwhp. He likes to drap race, and when I had my Evo I liked the road course, when he drove my Evo he smiled, when I drove his BMW I smiled, we had a mutual respect for each others car.

Jeff


That's awesome

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
but I get ~28 highway
LOL
It is possible, downhill, with 11% grade lol

He he, in Canada, we use Imperial gallons or litres. An Imperial gallon is significantly larger than an American gallon. 28 miles per Imperial gallon on the highway in just about any modern BMW sedan is very believable. I could get that in my Town Car.

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I'm confused howa TBN can "stablize" because sulfur from the gas and water from the air will continue to make sulfuric acid and there by continuing lowering the TBN. Unless the fuel changes how can it stabilize?

More accurately, the rate of depletion changes. It doesn't become static. It's kind of like titration in the lab, where you really have to piddle around at the end.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

So is the general census that since 504 pretty much replaces 501 502 and 503 that 504 may assist in the reduction of deposits on the intake valves this should be the oil to use? It's 5w30 only and the hope is that California gas had a low enough Sulphur content to not cause any issues with the low TBN in these 504 oils. Just want to get more input on this if anyone has any.

I'm thinking I may try the Motul specific 504 instead of the M1 ESP 5w30.

thoughts?

The goal is to reduce the deposits without sacrificing reliability or wear.

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
So is the general census that since 504 pretty much replaces 501 502 and 503 that 504 may assist in the reduction of deposits on the intake valves this should be the oil to use? It's 5w30 only and the hope is that California gas had a low enough Sulphur content to not cause any issues with the low TBN in these 504 oils. Just want to get more input on this if anyone has any.

I'm thinking I may try the Motul specific 504 instead of the M1 ESP 5w30.

thoughts?

The goal is to reduce the deposits without sacrificing reliability or wear.

Jeff



Get PU 5W30, very high HTHS for 5W30.
And stop overthinking!

 

[Finklejag]

Just let this thread die already. Reading this thread is like a Seinfeld episode. It's all about nothing.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
So is the general census that since 504 pretty much replaces 501 502 and 503 that 504 may assist in the reduction of deposits on the intake valves this should be the oil to use? It's 5w30 only and the hope is that California gas had a low enough Sulphur content to not cause any issues with the low TBN in these 504 oils. Just want to get more input on this if anyone has any.

I'm thinking I may try the Motul specific 504 instead of the M1 ESP 5w30.

thoughts?

The goal is to reduce the deposits without sacrificing reliability or wear.

Jeff




504 does not replace 502, it supplements it.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Doesn't 504 supercede 502 though?

 

[fredf]

no

 

[dparm]

Contrary to what you may hear, 504 does not "supersede" 502. They both exist concurrently as distinct specs. A very high-level explanation would be:

502 = fixed interval (US cars)
504 = variable interval (EU cars)



http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/RelativePerformanceTool/default.html

You will see, however, that a 504 oil can be used in a 502 application since it surpasses the 502 requirements in all areas. Typically an oil with 504 approval will also carry 502 since they blender knows it will pass, and it's an easy way to sell more of it.

Interestingly both of my Audis did not say "use 502 or 504" oil -- they only said "use 502".

 

[pscholte]

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I'm not sure why folks keep mocking this thread. This isn't about what oil is approved for VW is about is 504 going to help reduce intake valve deposits vs the 502. I'm trying to gather information since the the 504 use in the USA for gas engine relatively new. Not many folks folks use 504 unless they have a diesel.

Just looking for info and the VW sites just don't know. I did contact a reputable performance company for VW. They told me to just stick with the 502. I figure they build race engines and high performed Street and have some knowledge. They just didn't state why is all. They just said any oil may contribute to carbon formation. An Italian tune wouldn't hurt occasionally as well.

Anyway I just like add much info as possible and appreciate all the replies.

Jeff

 

[pscholte]

Jeff........,

Great you want info but if you haven't got what you need in 158 posts you are probably not going to get it at all.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I wonder if the motul 0w40 8100 x max with a lower saps of .8 vs M1 0w40's (currently in my car) 1.3??

Just curious.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
Jeff........,

Great you want info but if you haven't got what you need in 158 posts you are probably not going to get it at all.


Some people "get it" some people don't. I just like to ask questions. Gather info and make my own decision that's all.

The euro cars do seem to be pickier. At least to me. I mean my Evo put out 2x's the power to the wheels and ran a 30w with no issues on the track or off. But this VW requires a thicker hths stock than my Evo needed with 360whp.

Maybe that is why VW had deposit issues because most DI USA cars use a 30 or 20w oils that compared to the 40w VW recommends had less saps and thereby less deposits?

EXample. Hyundai Sonata 5w20 in their DI and they have no known deposit issues. Cadillac 6 cyl no issues with carbon they run a 20w too I believe. So what gives???

Just poor design? Or pour oil choice?

Jeff

 

[pscholte]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Jeff........,

Great you want info but if you haven't got what you need in 158 posts you are probably not going to get it at all.


Some people "get it" some people don't. I just like to ask questions. Gather info and make my own decision that's all.

The euro cars do seem to be pickier. At least to me. I mean my Evo put out 2x's the power to the wheels and ran a 30w with no issues on the track or off. But this VW requires a thicker hths stock than my Evo needed with 360whp.

Maybe that is why VW had deposit issues because most DI USA cars use a 30 or 20w oils that compared to the 40w VW recommends had less saps and thereby less deposits?

EXample. Hyundai Sonata 5w20 in their DI and they have no known deposit issues. Cadillac 6 cyl no issues with carbon they run a 20w too I believe. So what gives???

Just poor design? Or pour oil choice?

Jeff


Jeff,

That is the problem with running a vehicle that is maybe too specifically designed for a certain market or markets. You either have to duplicate as many of the conditions as you can, e.g. Specific oil, similar fuel, running at certain RPMs...or you live with "complications". You could say it is a design issue but only in the sense that it was designed for too specific a set of operating conditions. "World Cars" should not be designed that way