VW Oil Help, Again

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Hello everyone, I realize there have been many posts on VW oil specs and what not, but I am seeking help in finding more current info. As good as the info is here from 5 yrs ago, the oils just keep changing and what was great 5 yrs ago and what is "great" now is totally different. So with that in mind here I go.

In January of this year I purchased a new 2013 VW GTI. I had no prior VW experience other than my Grandpa's 60 bug convertable of which my Dad still has. That bug is still running strong after 50 yrs by the way on the OEM engine and tranny. Amazing. Anyway, wanting more info on this GTI and its TSI motor I searched here on BITOG and numerous MK6 VW forums to find whats what on the TSI motor. Though there are several things that people seem to go wrong (like with any company, all have their own flukes and flaws) the one that catches my eye the most is the Intake Valve Deposits. This puzzles me because in this day and age to have carbon build up on intake valves in kinda unheard of. Yes this TSI is GDI (Gas Direct Injection) and is turbo-charged for those that dont know. I have written letters to APR which is a performance company that builds race VW's and in the USA anyway is probably the "Go To" people for any issues. When I asked them about the Intake Valve Problem the response was that in the MK6 The problem was pretty much eliminated due to a revised PCV system. So I thought it was over right there. As I spend more time on the MK6 forums, the more I see photos of gunked up intake valves. Doesn't matter if you run Oil Catch Cans, or not, they still get gunked up. The only thing that I have actually seen photos of that actually may help is an "Italian Tune Up" by keeping the car over 4000 RPM for 20 minutes or so once a month. Though some argue this does not work. I have seen before and after pictures though showing otherwise. So I keep thinking and thinking why does this happen? Is it just the Oil Vapors that accumulate over time? cheap gas? Bad Design? Though maybe its a little of all 3 there, I try hard to elimate the risk of this happening. My therory is if I can find an oil the has a lower vitality, something that gives off less, maybe the odds of this happening will be greatly reduced?

Here comes the Oil part. I was told that my car from Germany came with 5w40 Castrol synthetic. I feel I have found proof that is wrong. When my car hit 1800 miles I dumped the OEM fill and put in 5w40 PU. After 3100 miles I took a sample and dumped the oil and in place put in M1 0w40. I sent off the oil to the lab and here is how it came back.

PU 5w40 after 3100 miles
]PU 5w40 after 3100 Miles[/url]

I told Blackstone they may find some extra fuel since the car was not driven long prior to the oil change, maybe only 5 min, but I was wrong, as the fuel was fine. Anyway, to me everything doesn't look bad for a new engine. I did think the TBN was rather low after 3100 miles, and then the lab said try 4K miles. So I was confused, did they mean go 4K miles LONGER with this oil? Or just go 4K miles total on this oil. Either way, I don't think I would go 10K miles with PU in the crank. But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

Now I am on M1 0w40 because I was able to find it easier and the cost was half that of the PU. The Problem is, all these over the counter oils these days are all Group III's for the most part, and in a couple thousand miles I will be going to the dealer for my 10K mile free oil change. Of which I will ask them to take a sample of the M1 as a comparo, and they will put in the Castrol again. They told me it will be 5w40. I asked the dealer if I could put in another oil, and the service guy looked at me like I was stupid and said why?? I said I am not a big Castrol fan, and would rather use M1. The service guy said M1 has too much ash in it and may cause future problems. I responded by saying that it is VW approved, so I can use it. He said yes you can, he just advised against it. Weird. Must be making some money off the Castrol I don't know.

After thinking more and more, I keep looking at Redline. I used this oil for years in my Evo's and was thinking maybe this oil will have less evaporation loss than both the M1 or the Castrol. Recently Redline changed up pretty much their WHOLE line up and now I have no idea if they are good or not anymore. Problem is they are not VW approved, but we all know Redline should perform very well. I just cant give Redline and go to the dealer for my free scheduled maintenance. They just wont put it in. So what do I do there?

The bottom line is, I am using Top Tier gas in which I hope it will help somewhat. I know the gas never touches the valves, but hope that the high detergents will help reduce it somewhat. I usually stick to Shell or Chevron and use 76 once in a while.

As far as oil, I wanted to stick to a 40w because I live in the Desert and it gets so hot here. In the event the oil were to shear a bit, the 40w gives me a buffer. Only 30w I would consider using would be Redline because well their old formula 5w30 had a HTHS of 3.6-3.8 if I am not mistaken. I just wanted to use an oil that I could buy anywhere, is why I went with M1 0w40. Just seems that in all truth, brand bias beside, the Castrol and the M1 are probably pretty darn close to equal. Especially with all the new formulas going on within M1 and other companies.

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less? Any suggestions to help? Forget Seafoam the stuff messes things up bad. Seen too many horror stories on that stuff for this particular application.

I just feel that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. Just hope I can apply that here.

Thoughts everyone??

Thank You.

Jeff

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

How does it prove that? Even if the factory oil was an Xw-30, there would have to be a lot of it left in the crankcase to impact your PU results. Did you not drain the crankcase when you put in PU???

To me, it just shows that your engine is hard on oil. That's all.

Quote:

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less?

Personally, I'd use something that's not only low NOACK but also mid/low SAPS. The new PU 5w-40 (API SN) has very low NOACK, but is full SAPS.

If I'm not mistaken, most Redline oils have very rich ad packs, so they're not low SAPS either.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

How does it prove that? Even if the factory oil was an Xw-30, there would have to be a lot of it left in the crankcase to impact your PU results. Did you not drain the crankcase when you put in PU???

To me, it just shows that your engine is hard on oil. That's all.

Quote:

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less?

Personally, I'd use something that's not only low NOACK but also mid/low SAPS. The new PU 5w-40 (API SN) has very low NOACK, but is full SAPS.

If I'm not mistaken, most Redline oils have very rich ad packs, so they're not low SAPS either.


Your Right Pete, I dont know, it is very possible that the PU just sheared. Very possible. The oil was changed at the drain plug dumped all the OEM fill and PU 5w40 was put in. 5qts to be exact. I would not go farther than 5K on any oil I use in this application. Not looking for long OCI's just looking for something that may reduce the risk of valve deposits.

Jeff

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone, I realize there have been many posts on VW oil specs and what not, but I am seeking help in finding more current info. As good as the info is here from 5 yrs ago, the oils just keep changing and what was great 5 yrs ago and what is "great" now is totally different. So with that in mind here I go.

In January of this year I purchased a new 2013 VW GTI. I had no prior VW experience other than my Grandpa's 60 bug convertable of which my Dad still has. That bug is still running strong after 50 yrs by the way on the OEM engine and tranny. Amazing. Anyway, wanting more info on this GTI and its TSI motor I searched here on BITOG and numerous MK6 VW forums to find whats what on the TSI motor. Though there are several things that people seem to go wrong (like with any company, all have their own flukes and flaws) the one that catches my eye the most is the Intake Valve Deposits. This puzzles me because in this day and age to have carbon build up on intake valves in kinda unheard of. Yes this TSI is GDI (Gas Direct Injection) and is turbo-charged for those that dont know. I have written letters to APR which is a performance company that builds race VW's and in the USA anyway is probably the "Go To" people for any issues. When I asked them about the Intake Valve Problem the response was that in the MK6 The problem was pretty much eliminated due to a revised PCV system. So I thought it was over right there. As I spend more time on the MK6 forums, the more I see photos of gunked up intake valves. Doesn't matter if you run Oil Catch Cans, or not, they still get gunked up. The only thing that I have actually seen photos of that actually may help is an "Italian Tune Up" by keeping the car over 4000 RPM for 20 minutes or so once a month. Though some argue this does not work. I have seen before and after pictures though showing otherwise. So I keep thinking and thinking why does this happen? Is it just the Oil Vapors that accumulate over time? cheap gas? Bad Design? Though maybe its a little of all 3 there, I try hard to elimate the risk of this happening. My therory is if I can find an oil the has a lower vitality, something that gives off less, maybe the odds of this happening will be greatly reduced?

Here comes the Oil part. I was told that my car from Germany came with 5w40 Castrol synthetic. I feel I have found proof that is wrong. When my car hit 1800 miles I dumped the OEM fill and put in 5w40 PU. After 3100 miles I took a sample and dumped the oil and in place put in M1 0w40. I sent off the oil to the lab and here is how it came back.

PU 5w40 after 3100 miles
]PU 5w40 after 3100 Miles[/url]

I told Blackstone they may find some extra fuel since the car was not driven long prior to the oil change, maybe only 5 min, but I was wrong, as the fuel was fine. Anyway, to me everything doesn't look bad for a new engine. I did think the TBN was rather low after 3100 miles, and then the lab said try 4K miles. So I was confused, did they mean go 4K miles LONGER with this oil? Or just go 4K miles total on this oil. Either way, I don't think I would go 10K miles with PU in the crank. But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

Now I am on M1 0w40 because I was able to find it easier and the cost was half that of the PU. The Problem is, all these over the counter oils these days are all Group III's for the most part, and in a couple thousand miles I will be going to the dealer for my 10K mile free oil change. Of which I will ask them to take a sample of the M1 as a comparo, and they will put in the Castrol again. They told me it will be 5w40. I asked the dealer if I could put in another oil, and the service guy looked at me like I was stupid and said why?? I said I am not a big Castrol fan, and would rather use M1. The service guy said M1 has too much ash in it and may cause future problems. I responded by saying that it is VW approved, so I can use it. He said yes you can, he just advised against it. Weird. Must be making some money off the Castrol I don't know.

After thinking more and more, I keep looking at Redline. I used this oil for years in my Evo's and was thinking maybe this oil will have less evaporation loss than both the M1 or the Castrol. Recently Redline changed up pretty much their WHOLE line up and now I have no idea if they are good or not anymore. Problem is they are not VW approved, but we all know Redline should perform very well. I just cant give Redline and go to the dealer for my free scheduled maintenance. They just wont put it in. So what do I do there?

The bottom line is, I am using Top Tier gas in which I hope it will help somewhat. I know the gas never touches the valves, but hope that the high detergents will help reduce it somewhat. I usually stick to Shell or Chevron and use 76 once in a while.

As far as oil, I wanted to stick to a 40w because I live in the Desert and it gets so hot here. In the event the oil were to shear a bit, the 40w gives me a buffer. Only 30w I would consider using would be Redline because well their old formula 5w30 had a HTHS of 3.6-3.8 if I am not mistaken. I just wanted to use an oil that I could buy anywhere, is why I went with M1 0w40. Just seems that in all truth, brand bias beside, the Castrol and the M1 are probably pretty darn close to equal. Especially with all the new formulas going on within M1 and other companies.

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less? Any suggestions to help? Forget Seafoam the stuff messes things up bad. Seen too many horror stories on that stuff for this particular application.

I just feel that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. Just hope I can apply that here.

Thoughts everyone??

Thank You.

Jeff


You are going to hear all kind of [censored] from dealership.
But, let's start.
I simply hate Castrol 5W40 for the U.S. market. it is tax on fools! Same viscosity castrol in the EU is much better oil that can meet MB 229.5 requirements.
MB 229.5 is IMO very important fact here. Only oils that have NOACK below 10% can meet this, which means they are more "stable." M1 is good oil, but I found it that if you drive long routes, it is good, if you are using car a lot in the city, not very good. I used it twice, when I got car, being affraid German Castrol 0W30 would be too thin, I put M1, however, of 5,000 miles, I crancked up 4000 on highway. It was OK. Then i put GC, and it was much quiter, engine was more eager to accelerate (it is thiner oil). Then i used again M1, and most was city, and that is where I stopped using M1. With GC, whenever I checked oil level, you could never smell the gas, while with M1, smell of gas was horrible. Plus, from experience with VW 1.8T, GC was much better when it comes to noise level and cold start.
In your case, I would go with GC. Dealerships asked me why I am using it, bcs I always put note in engine when I changed oil, what kind of oil, viscosity, date and mileage. Same thing happened to me. When I said that GC is more stable oil, Group IV oil, they said: oh it is too thin. OK, i change it every 5K, plus in the EU they use thinner Group III 5W30 and OCI is every 30,000km. Not to mention, that CC's overthere see 100mph+ regularly for prolonged time.
So after 57K, knock on wood, I never had issues with engine. I do push engine hard, very hard, to the point where my engine strats to overheat (if you do that, just kick heating to max and fan to max with no AC) and IMO I think it helps when it comes to depostits. Good gas, most importantly, good oil, and push car hard.
On other hand, I bought used Tiguan in June for a wife. 500 miles after pushing it hard, intake manifold went bad.
Of course, it was under warranty, but considering state of the brakes, tires etc, whoever owned car before me drove it like a snail.
Yes VW offers free oil change. personally, it is not worth it. I would rather go with GC all the time, or M1 if you are the fan, or PU 5W40.

 

[edyvw]

Also, take into consideration Pentosin 5W40. It is mid-SAPS but, it is low NOACK oil.
Still, I think this new PU 5W40 SN could be best for our engines (although I am sticking to GC during winter months).

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone, I realize there have been many posts on VW oil specs and what not, but I am seeking help in finding more current info. As good as the info is here from 5 yrs ago, the oils just keep changing and what was great 5 yrs ago and what is "great" now is totally different. So with that in mind here I go.

In January of this year I purchased a new 2013 VW GTI. I had no prior VW experience other than my Grandpa's 60 bug convertable of which my Dad still has. That bug is still running strong after 50 yrs by the way on the OEM engine and tranny. Amazing. Anyway, wanting more info on this GTI and its TSI motor I searched here on BITOG and numerous MK6 VW forums to find whats what on the TSI motor. Though there are several things that people seem to go wrong (like with any company, all have their own flukes and flaws) the one that catches my eye the most is the Intake Valve Deposits. This puzzles me because in this day and age to have carbon build up on intake valves in kinda unheard of. Yes this TSI is GDI (Gas Direct Injection) and is turbo-charged for those that dont know. I have written letters to APR which is a performance company that builds race VW's and in the USA anyway is probably the "Go To" people for any issues. When I asked them about the Intake Valve Problem the response was that in the MK6 The problem was pretty much eliminated due to a revised PCV system. So I thought it was over right there. As I spend more time on the MK6 forums, the more I see photos of gunked up intake valves. Doesn't matter if you run Oil Catch Cans, or not, they still get gunked up. The only thing that I have actually seen photos of that actually may help is an "Italian Tune Up" by keeping the car over 4000 RPM for 20 minutes or so once a month. Though some argue this does not work. I have seen before and after pictures though showing otherwise. So I keep thinking and thinking why does this happen? Is it just the Oil Vapors that accumulate over time? cheap gas? Bad Design? Though maybe its a little of all 3 there, I try hard to elimate the risk of this happening. My therory is if I can find an oil the has a lower vitality, something that gives off less, maybe the odds of this happening will be greatly reduced?

Here comes the Oil part. I was told that my car from Germany came with 5w40 Castrol synthetic. I feel I have found proof that is wrong. When my car hit 1800 miles I dumped the OEM fill and put in 5w40 PU. After 3100 miles I took a sample and dumped the oil and in place put in M1 0w40. I sent off the oil to the lab and here is how it came back.

PU 5w40 after 3100 miles
]PU 5w40 after 3100 Miles[/url]

I told Blackstone they may find some extra fuel since the car was not driven long prior to the oil change, maybe only 5 min, but I was wrong, as the fuel was fine. Anyway, to me everything doesn't look bad for a new engine. I did think the TBN was rather low after 3100 miles, and then the lab said try 4K miles. So I was confused, did they mean go 4K miles LONGER with this oil? Or just go 4K miles total on this oil. Either way, I don't think I would go 10K miles with PU in the crank. But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

Now I am on M1 0w40 because I was able to find it easier and the cost was half that of the PU. The Problem is, all these over the counter oils these days are all Group III's for the most part, and in a couple thousand miles I will be going to the dealer for my 10K mile free oil change. Of which I will ask them to take a sample of the M1 as a comparo, and they will put in the Castrol again. They told me it will be 5w40. I asked the dealer if I could put in another oil, and the service guy looked at me like I was stupid and said why?? I said I am not a big Castrol fan, and would rather use M1. The service guy said M1 has too much ash in it and may cause future problems. I responded by saying that it is VW approved, so I can use it. He said yes you can, he just advised against it. Weird. Must be making some money off the Castrol I don't know.

After thinking more and more, I keep looking at Redline. I used this oil for years in my Evo's and was thinking maybe this oil will have less evaporation loss than both the M1 or the Castrol. Recently Redline changed up pretty much their WHOLE line up and now I have no idea if they are good or not anymore. Problem is they are not VW approved, but we all know Redline should perform very well. I just cant give Redline and go to the dealer for my free scheduled maintenance. They just wont put it in. So what do I do there?

The bottom line is, I am using Top Tier gas in which I hope it will help somewhat. I know the gas never touches the valves, but hope that the high detergents will help reduce it somewhat. I usually stick to Shell or Chevron and use 76 once in a while.

As far as oil, I wanted to stick to a 40w because I live in the Desert and it gets so hot here. In the event the oil were to shear a bit, the 40w gives me a buffer. Only 30w I would consider using would be Redline because well their old formula 5w30 had a HTHS of 3.6-3.8 if I am not mistaken. I just wanted to use an oil that I could buy anywhere, is why I went with M1 0w40. Just seems that in all truth, brand bias beside, the Castrol and the M1 are probably pretty darn close to equal. Especially with all the new formulas going on within M1 and other companies.

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less? Any suggestions to help? Forget Seafoam the stuff messes things up bad. Seen too many horror stories on that stuff for this particular application.

I just feel that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. Just hope I can apply that here.

Thoughts everyone??

Thank You.

Jeff


You are going to hear all kind of [censored] from dealership.
But, let's start.
I simply hate Castrol 5W40 for the U.S. market. it is tax on fools! Same viscosity castrol in the EU is much better oil that can meet MB 229.5 requirements.
MB 229.5 is IMO very important fact here. Only oils that have NOACK below 10% can meet this, which means they are more "stable." M1 is good oil, but I found it that if you drive long routes, it is good, if you are using car a lot in the city, not very good. I used it twice, when I got car, being affraid German Castrol 0W30 would be too thin, I put M1, however, of 5,000 miles, I crancked up 4000 on highway. It was OK. Then i put GC, and it was much quiter, engine was more eager to accelerate (it is thiner oil). Then i used again M1, and most was city, and that is where I stopped using M1. With GC, whenever I checked oil level, you could never smell the gas, while with M1, smell of gas was horrible. Plus, from experience with VW 1.8T, GC was much better when it comes to noise level and cold start.
In your case, I would go with GC. Dealerships asked me why I am using it, bcs I always put note in engine when I changed oil, what kind of oil, viscosity, date and mileage. Same thing happened to me. When I said that GC is more stable oil, Group IV oil, they said: oh it is too thin. OK, i change it every 5K, plus in the EU they use thinner Group III 5W30 and OCI is every 30,000km. Not to mention, that CC's overthere see 100mph+ regularly for prolonged time.
So after 57K, knock on wood, I never had issues with engine. I do push engine hard, very hard, to the point where my engine strats to overheat (if you do that, just kick heating to max and fan to max with no AC) and IMO I think it helps when it comes to depostits. Good gas, most importantly, good oil, and push car hard.
On other hand, I bought used Tiguan in June for a wife. 500 miles after pushing it hard, intake manifold went bad.
Of course, it was under warranty, but considering state of the brakes, tires etc, whoever owned car before me drove it like a snail.
Yes VW offers free oil change. personally, it is not worth it. I would rather go with GC all the time, or M1 if you are the fan, or PU 5W40.


I understand what you are saying, but GC in my town is not GC oil. The "Euro" Castrol 0w30 here in my local store says "Made in England" on the bottle, not Made in Germany. So the formula may be different.

I dissagree that the PU would be good for our cars. It is a possibility that it sheared to a 30w after 3100 miles. To me, that is not impressive if that is the case.

I dont drive my car hard, I cant, speed limit is what it is, and being that the local Po Po is everywhere I cant afford a ticket. I just drive "normal". On occasion I will floor it to see what she can do on an open road, but that is once in a blue moon.

Maybe I can buy a EU Oil from Amazon? I know the M1 0w40 that I can buy at wallyworld for $22 for 5qt jug (which is what is in the car right now) has the MB 229.5 approval, as well as many others. I have noticed that the oil smells like gas, so will see how it holds up next oil change. By that time the M1 will have about 4K miles on it. We will see.

Jeff

 

[Inliner]

What did your research find on any theories about the oil coming from up top? That is, the valve guides and seals? That would explain why the catch cans and such aren't doing much.

I started running a flexible borescope through the air temp sensor hole on my '11 GTI to monitor valve deposits. At 32K (all highway) miles, it's looking pretty gummy in there already. It really doesn't bother me though. I figure I'll get bored one weekend, pull the intake off and clean them up with some hooks, picks, and a shop vac - part of owning a VW. Honestly, it's a job I'd rather do myself than risk the dealership screwing it up.

If it really bugs you, I've heard some say that a water/meth system will clean it up...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The "Euro" Castrol 0w30 here in my local store says "Made in England" on the bottle,

Huh? That's a first. Pics or it didn't happen.

Quote:

I dissagree that the PU would be good for our cars. It is a possibility that it sheared to a 30w after 3100 miles. To me, that is not impressive if that is the case.

You are over reacting. The current PU 5w-40 starts at 13.2 cSt when new, a light 40 weight. So it dropped about 15% in viscosity. To me, that's not so bad in a turbocharged DI application. I'd be surprised if M1 0w-40 did better under the same conditions.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Hello everyone, I realize there have been many posts on VW oil specs and what not, but I am seeking help in finding more current info. As good as the info is here from 5 yrs ago, the oils just keep changing and what was great 5 yrs ago and what is "great" now is totally different. So with that in mind here I go.

In January of this year I purchased a new 2013 VW GTI. I had no prior VW experience other than my Grandpa's 60 bug convertable of which my Dad still has. That bug is still running strong after 50 yrs by the way on the OEM engine and tranny. Amazing. Anyway, wanting more info on this GTI and its TSI motor I searched here on BITOG and numerous MK6 VW forums to find whats what on the TSI motor. Though there are several things that people seem to go wrong (like with any company, all have their own flukes and flaws) the one that catches my eye the most is the Intake Valve Deposits. This puzzles me because in this day and age to have carbon build up on intake valves in kinda unheard of. Yes this TSI is GDI (Gas Direct Injection) and is turbo-charged for those that dont know. I have written letters to APR which is a performance company that builds race VW's and in the USA anyway is probably the "Go To" people for any issues. When I asked them about the Intake Valve Problem the response was that in the MK6 The problem was pretty much eliminated due to a revised PCV system. So I thought it was over right there. As I spend more time on the MK6 forums, the more I see photos of gunked up intake valves. Doesn't matter if you run Oil Catch Cans, or not, they still get gunked up. The only thing that I have actually seen photos of that actually may help is an "Italian Tune Up" by keeping the car over 4000 RPM for 20 minutes or so once a month. Though some argue this does not work. I have seen before and after pictures though showing otherwise. So I keep thinking and thinking why does this happen? Is it just the Oil Vapors that accumulate over time? cheap gas? Bad Design? Though maybe its a little of all 3 there, I try hard to elimate the risk of this happening. My therory is if I can find an oil the has a lower vitality, something that gives off less, maybe the odds of this happening will be greatly reduced?

Here comes the Oil part. I was told that my car from Germany came with 5w40 Castrol synthetic. I feel I have found proof that is wrong. When my car hit 1800 miles I dumped the OEM fill and put in 5w40 PU. After 3100 miles I took a sample and dumped the oil and in place put in M1 0w40. I sent off the oil to the lab and here is how it came back.

PU 5w40 after 3100 miles
]PU 5w40 after 3100 Miles[/url]

I told Blackstone they may find some extra fuel since the car was not driven long prior to the oil change, maybe only 5 min, but I was wrong, as the fuel was fine. Anyway, to me everything doesn't look bad for a new engine. I did think the TBN was rather low after 3100 miles, and then the lab said try 4K miles. So I was confused, did they mean go 4K miles LONGER with this oil? Or just go 4K miles total on this oil. Either way, I don't think I would go 10K miles with PU in the crank. But look at the Vis that kinda proves that the factory fill was NOT a 40w but most likely a 30w.

Now I am on M1 0w40 because I was able to find it easier and the cost was half that of the PU. The Problem is, all these over the counter oils these days are all Group III's for the most part, and in a couple thousand miles I will be going to the dealer for my 10K mile free oil change. Of which I will ask them to take a sample of the M1 as a comparo, and they will put in the Castrol again. They told me it will be 5w40. I asked the dealer if I could put in another oil, and the service guy looked at me like I was stupid and said why?? I said I am not a big Castrol fan, and would rather use M1. The service guy said M1 has too much ash in it and may cause future problems. I responded by saying that it is VW approved, so I can use it. He said yes you can, he just advised against it. Weird. Must be making some money off the Castrol I don't know.

After thinking more and more, I keep looking at Redline. I used this oil for years in my Evo's and was thinking maybe this oil will have less evaporation loss than both the M1 or the Castrol. Recently Redline changed up pretty much their WHOLE line up and now I have no idea if they are good or not anymore. Problem is they are not VW approved, but we all know Redline should perform very well. I just cant give Redline and go to the dealer for my free scheduled maintenance. They just wont put it in. So what do I do there?

The bottom line is, I am using Top Tier gas in which I hope it will help somewhat. I know the gas never touches the valves, but hope that the high detergents will help reduce it somewhat. I usually stick to Shell or Chevron and use 76 once in a while.

As far as oil, I wanted to stick to a 40w because I live in the Desert and it gets so hot here. In the event the oil were to shear a bit, the 40w gives me a buffer. Only 30w I would consider using would be Redline because well their old formula 5w30 had a HTHS of 3.6-3.8 if I am not mistaken. I just wanted to use an oil that I could buy anywhere, is why I went with M1 0w40. Just seems that in all truth, brand bias beside, the Castrol and the M1 are probably pretty darn close to equal. Especially with all the new formulas going on within M1 and other companies.

So what oil would have the least evaporative loss? is my mind set correct in thinking that if I can find an oil with the least evaporation loss, then the deposits in theory should be less? Any suggestions to help? Forget Seafoam the stuff messes things up bad. Seen too many horror stories on that stuff for this particular application.

I just feel that an ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. Just hope I can apply that here.

Thoughts everyone??

Thank You.

Jeff


You are going to hear all kind of [censored] from dealership.
But, let's start.
I simply hate Castrol 5W40 for the U.S. market. it is tax on fools! Same viscosity castrol in the EU is much better oil that can meet MB 229.5 requirements.
MB 229.5 is IMO very important fact here. Only oils that have NOACK below 10% can meet this, which means they are more "stable." M1 is good oil, but I found it that if you drive long routes, it is good, if you are using car a lot in the city, not very good. I used it twice, when I got car, being affraid German Castrol 0W30 would be too thin, I put M1, however, of 5,000 miles, I crancked up 4000 on highway. It was OK. Then i put GC, and it was much quiter, engine was more eager to accelerate (it is thiner oil). Then i used again M1, and most was city, and that is where I stopped using M1. With GC, whenever I checked oil level, you could never smell the gas, while with M1, smell of gas was horrible. Plus, from experience with VW 1.8T, GC was much better when it comes to noise level and cold start.
In your case, I would go with GC. Dealerships asked me why I am using it, bcs I always put note in engine when I changed oil, what kind of oil, viscosity, date and mileage. Same thing happened to me. When I said that GC is more stable oil, Group IV oil, they said: oh it is too thin. OK, i change it every 5K, plus in the EU they use thinner Group III 5W30 and OCI is every 30,000km. Not to mention, that CC's overthere see 100mph+ regularly for prolonged time.
So after 57K, knock on wood, I never had issues with engine. I do push engine hard, very hard, to the point where my engine strats to overheat (if you do that, just kick heating to max and fan to max with no AC) and IMO I think it helps when it comes to depostits. Good gas, most importantly, good oil, and push car hard.
On other hand, I bought used Tiguan in June for a wife. 500 miles after pushing it hard, intake manifold went bad.
Of course, it was under warranty, but considering state of the brakes, tires etc, whoever owned car before me drove it like a snail.
Yes VW offers free oil change. personally, it is not worth it. I would rather go with GC all the time, or M1 if you are the fan, or PU 5W40.


I understand what you are saying, but GC in my town is not GC oil. The "Euro" Castrol 0w30 here in my local store says "Made in England" on the bottle, not Made in Germany. So the formula may be different.

I dissagree that the PU would be good for our cars. It is a possibility that it sheared to a 30w after 3100 miles. To me, that is not impressive if that is the case.

I dont drive my car hard, I cant, speed limit is what it is, and being that the local Po Po is everywhere I cant afford a ticket. I just drive "normal". On occasion I will floor it to see what she can do on an open road, but that is once in a blue moon.

Maybe I can buy a EU Oil from Amazon? I know the M1 0w40 that I can buy at wallyworld for $22 for 5qt jug (which is what is in the car right now) has the MB 229.5 approval, as well as many others. I have noticed that the oil smells like gas, so will see how it holds up next oil change. By that time the M1 will have about 4K miles on it. We will see.

Jeff


I just moved to Colorado from San Diego. I was buying GC there regularly!
Also, PU5W40 does not start very thick. It is almost 5W30 oil. Cst is 13.1 while M1 is 13.5. GC is I believe 12.21.
But forget cst, more important is HTHS which is 3.88, which is higher then M1 (3.8) and especially GC (min 3.5, but no data about it. 3.5 is based that meets ACEA A3 and VW 502.00).
Still, as long as oil is low NOACK, and meets VW 502.00, do not worry about starting cst, bcs more improtantly is for the oil to retain HTHS during its spectrum of life.
Yeah, cops are everywhere, but man, CA has deserts, racing tracks. Get that GTI out and drive it the way it should be driven. That is just my thought!

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: Inliner
What did your research find on any theories about the oil coming from up top? That is, the valve guides and seals? That would explain why the catch cans and such aren't doing much.

I started running a flexible borescope through the air temp sensor hole on my '11 GTI to monitor valve deposits. At 32K (all highway) miles, it's looking pretty gummy in there already. It really doesn't bother me though. I figure I'll get bored one weekend, pull the intake off and clean them up with some hooks, picks, and a shop vac - part of owning a VW. Honestly, it's a job I'd rather do myself than risk the dealership screwing it up.

If it really bugs you, I've heard some say that a water/meth system will clean it up...


Research is still on going. Most have not really dug into it themselves. Its something that takes time to answer. Oil Catch cans dont help either does WMI. Very odd. I dont think there is that mutch blow by or our compression would be on the low side. I think its just this engine was not meant to be used in the US market. In EU these problems do not exist. So it must have something to do with either our Gas quality, our Oil availability, Driving habits, or a combo of all 3.

Jeff

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Personally, I'd use something that's not only low NOACK but also mid/low SAPS. The new PU 5w-40 (API SN) has very low NOACK, but is full SAPS.

As Quattro Pete indicates, go mid or low SAPS if that's what's preferred. There have been indications that such a choice helps on the deposit issues. There has also been theorizing that one should not change oil too early in a DI engine that's prone to deposits.

Also, if you want to be taking UOAs, you might want to pick an oil and stick with it. As Blackstone indicates, hopping around can even affect the viscosity thanks to leftover oil.

I don't envy your position of trying to take the best care possible of this vehicle given the engineering hand you're dealt. Fortunately, California has European style low sulphur levels in gasoline, right?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Personally, I'd use something that's not only low NOACK but also mid/low SAPS. The new PU 5w-40 (API SN) has very low NOACK, but is full SAPS.

As Quattro Pete indicates, go mid or low SAPS if that's what's preferred. There have been indications that such a choice helps on the deposit issues. There has also been theorizing that one should not change oil too early in a DI engine that's prone to deposits.

Also, if you want to be taking UOAs, you might want to pick an oil and stick with it. As Blackstone indicates, hopping around can even affect the viscosity thanks to leftover oil.

I don't envy your position of trying to take the best care possible of this vehicle given the engineering hand you're dealt. Fortunately, California has European style low sulphur levels in gasoline, right?


Yep, CA def. has much better gas the rest of states. Though, it is not on par with EU gas. Do not forget, EU gas is much cleaner and has higher energy value due to the fact that it does not have ethanol in it. Also, octane rating is min 95, allowing higher comprasion ratios, cleaner burning and more efficient utilization of gas.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, octane rating is min 95, allowing higher comprasion ratios, cleaner burning and more efficient utilization of gas.

Europe uses a different formula to calculate octane number. In reality, 95 RON in Europe is equivalent to about 91 AKI in the US.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Also, octane rating is min 95, allowing higher comprasion ratios, cleaner burning and more efficient utilization of gas.

Europe uses a different formula to calculate octane number. In reality, 95 RON in Europe is equivalent to about 91 AKI in the US.

Yeah, but still, most of the drivers at least in Germany uses 98 or 100!
But then again, we come back to energy value of the fuel, which is more important. Cleaner fuel with more energy value results in cleaner burning. Though, problem is still in oil and strict speed limits.
I am often there, have car there. When I was talking with mechanics about these issues they all looked at me like I came from Mars.
They are dealing there with 1.2 TSI, 1.4TSI, 1.8TSI and 2.0TSI. Also, Opel (GM) has wide range of DI turbo engines etc. All VW are serviced with 504.00/507.00 oils. It is funny, but you would be amazed what 1.2TSI engine with 6 speed stick is doing in Golf! If they had that engine here, forget about Prius, TDI and rest of cars.

Have you ever came accros UOA of Valvoline MST 5W40 in 2.0TSI?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, but still, most of the drivers at least in Germany uses 98 or 100!

I think you're generalizing too much. I am no stranger to Europe, and I know people don't just [censored] their money away on higher octane gasoline if they don't have to.

Quote:

But then again, we come back to energy value of the fuel, which is more important.

Higher octane rating does not indicate more energy.

Quote:

I am often there, have car there. When I was talking with mechanics about these issues they all looked at me like I came from Mars.

The problem is with differing emissions requirements between US and Europe. In the US, to meet the local emissions requirements, engines have to run a different air-fuel ratio, often times not contemplated when a particular engine was originally designed and this can cause all sorts of issues in the long run.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, but still, most of the drivers at least in Germany uses 98 or 100!

I think you're generalizing too much. I am no stranger to Europe, and I know people don't just [censored] their money away on higher octane gasoline if they don't have to.

Quote:

But then again, we come back to energy value of the fuel, which is more important.

Higher octane rating does not indicate more energy.

Quote:

I am often there, have car there. When I was talking with mechanics about these issues they all looked at me like I came from Mars.

The problem is with differing emissions requirements between US and Europe. In the US, to meet the local emissions requirements, engines have to run a different air-fuel ratio, often times not contemplated when a particular engine was originally designed and this can cause all sorts of issues.



When it comes to energy value, I was not refering to octane rating, but the fact that you do not have an ethanol present in the fuel.

True about emissions, some emissions in Europe are stricter, while some are stricter in the US (NoX), which results in different ECU set up and compression ratios in some engines (not all).

True also about octane rating, not everyone is going to use 100, but 98 proved to be very common these days.

Still, IMO culprit is oil quality first, speed limits second.

 

[Inliner]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I dont think there is that mutch blow by or our compression would be on the low side. I think its just this engine was not meant to be used in the US market. In EU these problems do not exist. So it must have something to do with either our Gas quality, our Oil availability, Driving habits, or a combo of all 3.
Jeff


I hope you didn't take my valve seal question and relate it to compression. Valve seals would have no bearing on leak-down or compression figures.

I'd like to know more about the Rest of World crowd not experiencing deposits. Source?

And I still fail to see how our fuel affects affects this. First off, as you said, this is a DI engine. Second, you'd see this in more than just TSI motors.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Inliner
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I dont think there is that mutch blow by or our compression would be on the low side. I think its just this engine was not meant to be used in the US market. In EU these problems do not exist. So it must have something to do with either our Gas quality, our Oil availability, Driving habits, or a combo of all 3.
Jeff


I hope you didn't take my valve seal question and relate it to compression. Valve seals would have no bearing on leak-down or compression figures.

I'd like to know more about the Rest of World crowd not experiencing deposits. Source?

And I still fail to see how our fuel affects affects this. First off, as you said, this is a DI engine. Second, you'd see this in more than just TSI motors.


I know bunch of people that own GTI in Bosnia where I am coming from, never had to deal with issues of deposits. GTI is something like holy grail there, and they consider 2.0TFSI and later TSI as true replacement for original 1.6 GTI and 1.8 16V GTI. Also, TSI engines are much more present there through TSI vrsions such as 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 in cars like Skoda and Seat. On that note, strongest version of 1.4TSI had problems with pistons that were not build for such a high output.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Yeah, but still, most of the drivers at least in Germany uses 98 or 100!

I think you're generalizing too much. I am no stranger to Europe, and I know people don't just [censored] their money away on higher octane gasoline if they don't have to.

Quote:

But then again, we come back to energy value of the fuel, which is more important.

Higher octane rating does not indicate more energy.

Quote:

I am often there, have car there. When I was talking with mechanics about these issues they all looked at me like I came from Mars.

The problem is with differing emissions requirements between US and Europe. In the US, to meet the local emissions requirements, engines have to run a different air-fuel ratio, often times not contemplated when a particular engine was originally designed and this can cause all sorts of issues.



When it comes to energy value, I was not refering to octane rating, but the fact that you do not have an ethanol present in the fuel.

True about emissions, some emissions in Europe are stricter, while some are stricter in the US (NoX), which results in different ECU set up and compression ratios in some engines (not all).

True also about octane rating, not everyone is going to use 100, but 98 proved to be very common these days.

Still, IMO culprit is oil quality first, speed limits second.


VW are designed to be driven on European roads and the low rpm speed limits in NA are the problem. Velocity of air passing over the valves and maintaining that velocity is the key to a clean top end.
Have you considered an inverse oiler. I've got one on all my daily drivers. They mist in mmo through a vacuum line and keep everything in the intake tract spotless. Try one out. At this point if it works then you are a pioneer and can share your wonderful experience with the VW forums. If not I'll buy it off you so what have you got to lose.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Pete yeah was at pep boys picked upa bottle of 0w30 castrol said made in England.not making a special trip to prove something I saw with my own eyes. Next time I'm in town I will stop by and takea photo. Just not makinga special trip just for that.

We will find out on the M1 because it's in my car right now.

Jeff