VW 508.00 Does it really matter?

[xgmad]

I'd worry a whole lot less about the grade than I would about the approval. All VW approvals have a minimum HT/HS requirement making grade irrelevant.

Different grades come with different ht/hs requirements, I use oil that doesn't shear all too much.

 

[xgmad]

Well I thought the 2.0 tdi vs gas differences guy was the post of the week, but this might take the prize

This is exactly why VW has approvals

it hasn't killed my engine yet, after 300,000+ miles on running mostly 15w40

 

[edyvw]

Different grades come with different ht/hs requirements, I use oil that doesn't shear all too much.

Ah, but it is not that simple. It is not grade requirement, it is vehicle manufacturer requirement.
API (ILSAC) has a different HTHS requirement than VW of XW30 oils. In reality, you can have the same grade with two different HTHS requirements.
Just bcs. you use 15W40 oil does not mean it is more shear stable than 0W40. I will bet you Mobil1 0W40 is more shear stable than the large majority of 15W40 oils. The last time I did UOA on M1 0W40 it sheared down 7% over 5K in VW EA888 engine.

 

[xgmad]

Ah, but it is not that simple. It is not grade requirement, it is vehicle manufacturer requirement.
API (ILSAC) has a different HTHS requirement than VW of XW30 oils. In reality, you can have the same grade with two different HTHS requirements.
Just bcs. you use 15W40 oil does not mean it is more shear stable than 0W40. I will bet you Mobil1 0W40 is more shear stable than the large majority of 15W40 oils. The last time I did UOA on M1 0W40 it sheared down 7% over 5K in VW EA888 engine.

hmm, i shall see if this oil is more shear stable

 

[GregRobsn]

I would think that quote by the well known oil producer would be "May not provide adequate protection in engines specifying VW 504" (in other words....if the engine specs VW 504...this VW 508 oil may not provide adequate protection....

This isn not what "Not backwards compatible " means. The 0W-20 VW508 will not replace 0W20 oil specified for another engine. If You're running a Ford 5.4L V8 specifying a 0W20 oil, you can not replace it with the VW508 because it in not backwards compatable.

 

[GregRobsn]

Some engines were designed for an oil with a min HTHS of 3.5 (i.e. 502/505, 504/507) and VW sees no reason to determine if they could back spec them for 508 (Min HTHS 2.6). The lack of a back-spec has nothing to do with the performance of an oil. It's akin to saying 9mm rounds are suspect because I can't use it in my Colt 45.

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

 

[kschachn]

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

There are none of those for Volkswagen. What it means is that a 508 00 approved oil cannot be used in any vehicle that does not list that in the owners manual. VW is very clear about that in their literature.

 

[kschachn]

This isn not what "Not backwards compatible " means. The 0W-20 VW508 will not replace 0W20 oil specified for another engine. If You're running a Ford 5.4L V8 specifying a 0W20 oil, you can not replace it with the VW508 because it in not backwards compatable.

That’s completely incorrect. Volkswagen couldn’t care less about a Ford product nor any other manufacturer. Their approvals only apply to VAG products.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

508 is the first 20w spec from VW.

 

[edyvw]

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

Oh boy...

 

[Gokhan]

I've two new cars to maintain. 2020 VW Tsi 1.4 which calls for 0w-20 VW 508.00 and a Mazda 3 2.5S which calls for just a ILSAC GF-5/SAE 0W-20. The latter available anywhere, the 508.00 not so much.

Factoring out the warranty stuff, and the dye, is there really that much difference b/t VW 508.00 and say for example Castrol Edge 0w-20 Dexos2 (ILSAC GF-6/API SP)

The Mazda Skyactiv engine is a well engineered engine and so is the Tsi 1.4. Is there really something different about the specs of these two oils that would make them so different that either one could not be safety used in either engine?

Not saying I'm going to use a non 508 in the VW, but I'm curious and wondering if the oil gurus can identify the specific specifications that would make these oils non compatible, or is it more just a VW marketing thing.

Do a UOA comparison with oxidation, TBN, and TAN for Mobil 1 ESP X2 0W-20 vs. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20, and let us know. WearCheck USA will provide such a UOA for about $25. Give them a call.

 

[DuckRyder]

This isn not what "Not backwards compatible " means. The 0W-20 VW508 will not replace 0W20 oil specified for another engine. If You're running a Ford 5.4L V8 specifying a 0W20 oil, you can not replace it with the VW508 because it in not backwards compatable.

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

What on earth are you talking about?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

What on earth are you talking about?

OP is trolling.

 

[dbias]

What on earth are you talking about?

I got lost with the reference of the Ford oil spec. But don't worry I'm sure I'll get things sorted and be back in a bit. I have some bread with me and will be leaving bread crumbs to help me find my way. I saw Hansel and Gretel a little while ago.
Fwiw I'd say the 508 spec would fit the Ford fine.

 

[wemay]

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

508 is the first 0W20 VW has ever recommended. Let's take the VW Passat as an example.

From 2018 to present, VW has recommended 508 for the EA888 (4cyl Turbo). Now, that same engine has been available in the Passat for many years prior to 2018. VW is advising those owners (of pre-2018 Passats with the EA888) that they cannot use 508 in their vehicles. This is what they mean by "not backwards compatible."

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

508 is the first 0W20 VW has ever recommended. Let's take the VW Passat as an example.

From 2018 to present, VW has recommended 508 for the EA888 (4cyl Turbo). Now, that same engine has been available in the Passat for many years prior to 2018. VW is advising those owners (of pre-2018 Passats with the EA888) that they cannot use 508 in their vehicles. This is what they mean by "not backwards compatible."

Ignore him. OP is trolling the board.

 

[weasley]

Not backwards compatible has nothing to do with VW502 or VW504. It means it can't be used in place of an earlier 0W20 spec oil.

This is totally wrong. Backwards compatibility is where a newer specification has the officially-sanctioned ability to cover the applications that an older specification did. When the world jumped to low HTHS oils, they all came with no backwards compatibility, meaning you could not use the low HTHS 0W-20 oils in older engines that demanded an older spec. This is why VW demand that their 508 00/509 00 oil is dyed and chemically marked, so that you can see a difference when filling and it can be found if the wrong oil was in an engine in the case of a claim.

 

[GregRobsn]

That’s completely incorrect. Volkswagen couldn’t care less about a Ford product nor any other manufacturer. Their approvals only apply to VAG products.

Volkswagon is not the one who says Not Backward Comparable. It's the oil producers that make that caveat. They Do care about what engine you uses their products in.

 

[kschachn]

Volkswagon is not the one who says Not Backward Comparable. It's the oil producers that make that caveat. They Do care about what engine you uses their products in.

What a mess.

 

[weasley]

Volkswagon is not the one who says Not Backward Comparable. It's the oil producers that make that caveat. They Do care about what engine you uses their products in.

Yes, they are. The OEM makes this call, not the oil suppliers. Here's what it says in VW 508 00, section 1, Scope:

Engine oils as per this standard are service engine oils with a lower ash content. They meet the requirements to realize extended oil change intervals when used in the aforementioned Volkswagen Group engines. Due to their reduced HTHS viscosity, less energy is needed to pump them, they have exceptional fuel-saving properties and are distinguished by high thermal resistance, as well as optimized soot capacity. Due to their reduced HTHS viscosity, the engine oils described here are not backwards compatible and can be used only in specially approved engines (no universal engine oil).​

The bold is not mine - this is how it is written in the specification document.