Volunteer Firefighter - Oil Recommendation Needed

[roastpuff]

Hi all, I'm a volunteer fire department in a rural area so we are a first response department for stuff such as motor vehicle incidents, structure fires, commercial fire alarms and so on. Since we do not have on-duty crews, we are always on call 24 hours. I live approximately 1KM/0.6MI from the fire hall, as do most members. When the pager goes off, we basically race to get to the hall to get geared up and respond to the call, whether it is noon, 3AM, midnight, 6PM - you get it. Basically, get in the vehicle, turn it on, get to the hall as fast as local regulations allow. *Mostly*. But it is very harsh on the engine I feel, as there is no warm up time and then we are on the throttle to get to the hall fairly fast. It is also a bit of a race to get to the hall first, since we get on the truck in a first-come first-serve manner.

I currently drive a 2015 Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi, it has just over 4000 miles on it as of now (yes it's new) and it just had its first OCI - did it at the Mopar Express Lane with bulk Mopar 5W20 (PYB from what I was told?).

My question is this: should I be looking at using synthetic instead of the PYB/bulk Mopar? Will it give better startup protection, especially during the winter months when it is colder? Is there any specific oils that I should be looking at, i.e. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, Castrol Edge etc?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[69GTX]

I do think the synthetics will give some benefits in the higher stress environment you are seeing (ie high rpms during warmup). If you're doing 4,000 rpm or higher right off the bat, it could be trouble. I'd try to keep them in the 2000-3500 rpm range, the lower the better. One way to do that is accelerate up quickly, but smoothly. You can go plenty fast in 4th gear and the rpms on rural roads will be fairly low.

Buy the synthetic that's on sale. Stock up a bit when those sales occur. PP/PUP, Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, QSUD, Valvoline Synpower, etc. are all good ones. The issue is more with your cold rpms than the oil. The 5w-20 oil will reach normal flow in 10 seconds or less down to -10 to -20 deg F. If outside temps are above 0 deg F a 10w-20/30 oil will probably warmup faster and give you better early startup protection....especially in the spring-summer-fall months.

Your truck is still under warranty so you are obligated to use the factory recommended grade of oil. I'd find the strongest 5w-20 you can find. Having a block/dipstick heater may not be a bad idea either....giving you more margin to work with. Even a remote starter would give 1-2 minutes more before you are in the vehicle. I'd be interested in knowing the long term effects on constant high rpm warmups. No doubt you'll make it well past the warranty period. But what about after that?

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, and (I think) Castrol all cover the necessary Chrysler spec so if you want to go to a synthetic, I'd go with one of those. Mobil 1 does not.

PYB is fine stuff and is probably doing you well, but synthetic would arguably be better for those cold starts and no warming up.

 

[NavyVet88]

+1 on the remote start up. Some may say it's not worth the investment if your just gonna be 45-120 seconds from jumping in the cab but imo that investment may be the saving grace for your engine. I'm pretty sure your not cranking and driving your truck in the same manner as stated before 4-5 times a day.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, and (I think) Castrol all cover the necessary Chrysler spec so if you want to go to a synthetic, I'd go with one of those. Mobil 1 does not.

PYB is fine stuff and is probably doing you well, but synthetic would arguably be better for those cold starts and no warming up.


+1 If you are flying without warming up I would say a synthetic would be your best bet to give you the most protection. I personally like Pennzoil products but Valvoline and Castrol's synthetics would do just fine. Have you considered installing a remote start? You could start the truck when you get the call and the truck will be adequately warmed up

 

[CATERHAM]

Well at least your truck is spec'd for a 20 grade oil.
A synthetic 5W-20 isn't going to be much lighter
on start-up but a 0W-20 will.
And the best 0W-20s would be one developed
for hybrid engines which have similar harsh cold running conditions.
These oils are as light as you can get at typical start-up temp's. The Mobil made Toyota brand 0W-20 is what I'd recommend and you can buy it at any Toyota or Lexus dealership.

Yes it of course doesn't have Chrysler approval but it is what I'd use.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

There are a lot of vehicles that simply get started and then driven, even in cold weather. The reality is that the whole idea of a huge amount of engine wear at cold start is mostly marketing. Especially in your case-you're only a half mile from city hall. Just get in it and drive-your engine will probably outlive the rest of the truck as long as you do regular oil changes and maintenance.

 

[bobbydavro]

Base oil type is largely irrelevant when ZDDP doesn't really work until bulk oil temp hits 80C.

Once the oil is circulating then a 0W-20 won't offer any benefit over the higher viscosity of a 5W. A 5W will offer more hydrodynamic protection before the chemistry works

Just don't lug it or full throttle to give your bearings an easier time

 

[69GTX]

I live only 1/2 mile from my local fire house. A few of my neighbors are volunteers. If they pull mostly 4000-5000 rpm in 1st and 2nd gears all the way there (with three 90 deg turns along the way, requiring a stop), that's beyond "severe" service. Do the car manufacturers test their vehicles on such a regimen occurring 100-300X times? Driving in cold weather at 1000-2500 rpm shouldn't be an issue, no matter how cold once the oil is full flowing (usually 5-20 seconds). 4,000 rpm to Red Line is the concern.

 

[roastpuff]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I do think the synthetics will give some benefits in the higher stress environment you are seeing (ie high rpms during warmup). If you're doing 4,000 rpm or higher right off the bat, it could be trouble. I'd try to keep them in the 2000-3500 rpm range, the lower the better. One way to do that is accelerate up quickly, but smoothly. You can go plenty fast in 4th gear and the rpms on rural roads will be fairly low.

Buy the synthetic that's on sale. Stock up a bit when those sales occur. PP/PUP, Castrol Edge, Mobil 1, QSUD, Valvoline Synpower, etc. are all good ones. The issue is more with your cold rpms than the oil. The 5w-20 oil will reach normal flow in 10 seconds or less down to -10 to -20 deg F. If outside temps are above 0 deg F a 10w-20/30 oil will probably warmup faster and give you better early startup protection....especially in the spring-summer-fall months.

Your truck is still under warranty so you are obligated to use the factory recommended grade of oil. I'd find the strongest 5w-20 you can find. Having a block/dipstick heater may not be a bad idea either....giving you more margin to work with. Even a remote starter would give 1-2 minutes more before you are in the vehicle. I'd be interested in knowing the long term effects on constant high rpm warmups. No doubt you'll make it well past the warranty period. But what about after that?


Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, and (I think) Castrol all cover the necessary Chrysler spec so if you want to go to a synthetic, I'd go with one of those. Mobil 1 does not.

PYB is fine stuff and is probably doing you well, but synthetic would arguably be better for those cold starts and no warming up.


Originally Posted By: Bgallagher


+1 If you are flying without warming up I would say a synthetic would be your best bet to give you the most protection. I personally like Pennzoil products but Valvoline and Castrol's synthetics would do just fine. Have you considered installing a remote start? You could start the truck when you get the call and the truck will be adequately warmed up


Originally Posted By: NavyVet88
+1 on the remote start up. Some may say it's not worth the investment if your just gonna be 45-120 seconds from jumping in the cab but imo that investment may be the saving grace for your engine. I'm pretty sure your not cranking and driving your truck in the same manner as stated before 4-5 times a day.


Thanks for the responses! The Hemi is powerful enough that I don't usually have to floor the gas pedal to get up to speed quickly, but sometimes I do hit fairly high RPMs (~3000-4000) when getting out the driveway, which is what concerns me.

I have remote start on the vehicle, which I try to use to turn on the truck while I get my clothes/shoes on, but it sometimes doesn't catch.

For winter, I do have a block heater, so there's that at least. I'm waiting for my local Canadian Tire to have a sale, and then I'll get some synthetic for my next oil change.



Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Well at least your truck is spec'd for a 20 grade oil.
A synthetic 5W-20 isn't going to be much lighter
on start-up but a 0W-20 will.
And the best 0W-20s would be one developed
for hybrid engines which have similar harsh cold running conditions.
These oils are as light as you can get at typical start-up temp's. The Mobil made Toyota brand 0W-20 is what I'd recommend and you can buy it at any Toyota or Lexus dealership.

Yes it of course doesn't have Chrysler approval but it is what I'd use.


The local Toyota dealership is about 100MI from me, so I'd be more inclined to use something I can find in Canadian Tire or NAPA or my local auto store. If the opportunity does present itself I will try to inquire how much they charge for their oil.

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
There are a lot of vehicles that simply get started and then driven, even in cold weather. The reality is that the whole idea of a huge amount of engine wear at cold start is mostly marketing. Especially in your case-you're only a half mile from city hall. Just get in it and drive-your engine will probably outlive the rest of the truck as long as you do regular oil changes and maintenance.


Thanks for the advice!

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bobbydavro


Once the oil is circulating then a 0W-20 won't offer any benefit over the higher viscosity of a 5W. A 5W will offer more hydrodynamic protection before the chemistry works

Well that's not true.
While even a 0W-20 is too heavy for optimum lubrication at high rev's at least you've got more oil in circulation than with a 5W-20.

 

[totegoat]

After a call, I would run the engine up to operating temperature before parking it.

 

[ecotourist]

Good advice here already: Synthetic 5W-20 oil, block heater, early remote start, and keeping the revs down until warmed a little.

There would be an additional advantage in going with a synthetic 0W-20 as well, but the dealer may give you a hard time if there's a warranty problem. That would still be the best oil for your application. For the record, it would have comparable viscosity when hot, but flow better when cold. Using a brand that meets Chrysler's specs otherwise would be sensible. No reason to poke the bear.

 

[CATERHAM]

For winter, I do have a block heater, so there's that at least. I'm waiting for my local Canadian Tire to have a sale, and then I'll get some synthetic for my next oil change.



Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Well at least your truck is spec'd for a 20 grade oil.
A synthetic 5W-20 isn't going to be much lighter
on start-up but a 0W-20 will.
And the best 0W-20s would be one developed
for hybrid engines which have similar harsh cold running conditions.
These oils are as light as you can get at typical start-up temp's. The Mobil made Toyota brand 0W-20 is what I'd recommend and you can buy it at any Toyota or Lexus dealership.

Yes it of course doesn't have Chrysler approval but it is what I'd use.


The local Toyota dealership is about 100MI from me, so I'd be more inclined to use something I can find in Canadian Tire or NAPA or my local auto store. If the opportunity does present itself I will try to inquire how much they charge for their oil.
[/quote]
Out here the Toyota (TGMO) 0W-20 is about $5.65/L the last time I checked; I think it is a bit more in BC.
As far as what's available at your local Cdn Tire etc, there is always Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20 and IIRC it does have Chrysler approval if that's important to you.

The way you drive with rev's up to 3-4K rpm, that's not so bad. Just keep the heater off if you can until the coolant is up to temp'. And the suggestion of an block heater and even a pan heater would be ideal if you don't mind the expense of having them on in the colder months when there's a chance the truck may be called into service.

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro


Once the oil is circulating then a 0W-20 won't offer any benefit over the higher viscosity of a 5W. A 5W will offer more hydrodynamic protection before the chemistry works

Well that's not true.
While even a 0W-20 is too heavy for optimum lubrication at high rev's at least you've got more oil in circulation than with a 5W-20.


How can there be more "oil in circulation" between 0w and 5w if both are pumpable at the ambient temps in question? If oil is incompressible and a positive displacement oil pump always pumps an equal volume, then the same volume of 5w or 0w oil should make it around the oil loop, in the exact same amount of time. The only difference would be at temps as low as -40c where 0w is rated to flow (ie -40 deg F). Anything from -20 deg F and warmer there's really little difference.

 

[Nick1994]

Use a stopwatch (smart phones have them already on them) and take the drive at higher RPMs and see how long it takes to get there.

Then go back home and start the stopwatch and take it at 2,000-2,500 RPMs and see how long it takes get there.

If you only save a few seconds, it likely won't make a difference.

 

[CATERHAM]

Yes it's a positive displacement pump but if the relief valve is open, which limits the maximum oil pressure, some oil will be diverted back to the sump. This will happen even with a 0W-20 at higher rev's and moderately cold temp's but of course less so than with a lower viscosity index 5W-20.

 

[yvon_la]

me i put the oil i use to prevent other part of the car from falling appart in the long run .so the question is :what is your long term plan for the vehicule?answer that like you asked it to your self and answer only yourself then you ll know what you want.if you plan to change vehicule in 5 years ? bof just use what the dealer put

 

[mazdamonky]

I would go with a remote start and maybe Magnatec. Magnatec claims to hold onto parts well so they are properly lubricated on start. Whether that works correctly or not, it can't be any worse than any other oil. But letting the car start and run for 30 to 45 seconds before driving will give the oil enough time to get started flowing properly.

 

[demarpaint]

Remote start, synthetic oil, and tweak the gas with TCW3 is what I'd do. It's what my nephew is doing after an Easter Sunday dinner conversation we had.