Valvoline 500,000mi Synthetic vs. Traditional 2.3L Teardown Analysis Video

[Method]

Manufacturers get CAFE breaks for publishing 'recommended' extended OCIs....don't forget that. They also get to claim 'less maintenance required', right or wrong.

 

[Patman]

Sure, and my grandpa smoked tobacco until he was about 98. That doesn't mean it was good for him. Anecdotal info.

You can call it what you like but if you spend a lot of time on this site you will realize that it’s more common than you previously thought.

 

[Fa24wrx]

Pretty cool to see the results of these two cars, run side by side, after 500k miles.

 

[GSCJR]

Already posted

 

[cheesepuffs2]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...own-analysis-video.386755/page-2#post-6999420

 

[Fa24wrx]

Already posted

How do I get this deleted? I did try searching.

 

[LeoStrop]

That's a broad statement that needs to be qualified to be valid.

In some circumstances, 10k miles with conventional is super easy and perfectly acceptable. I've done 10k and more on ST and RK conventional oils and the UOAs were fine. In fact, those low dollar oils did every bit as well as popular syns. But, that's because these were done in 4.6L and 3.5L n/a Fords. These engines are very easy on oil; they run clean and don't stress the oil at all. My UOAs are posted here on the site as proof.

In other circumstances, 10k miles would be too much. High stress engines, especially ones that have turbos that run very hot, along with a fairly small sump capacity, would likely degrade the oil quick enough that longer OCIs can result in problems.

It's very important to make sure we state the full conditions of all the inputs to the equation. Just stating 10k miles is too much for lube "X" is an unbounded statement fraught with potential for misleading errors.

You are right @dnewton3, my comment was a bit broad. I was refering to the situation and veichles/engines used in the video. Although i would not like to have my engine looking like that, the conventional did a great job giving the mileage.

It would be interesting if cost was a factor. How many more times could they have changed the conventional oil, keeping the final cost equal, and how much of a difference would that make.

 

[ATex7239]

OCI isn't set by the engineers at automakers. It is set by the marketing department.

Here a prior Toyota automotive production engineer explains. MIT/BC affiliated engineers know more about this than you or I do.

# 1 His only criteria was how long you want to keep the vehicle which has very little to do with when you should do change the oil. So granny with the Camry going to church and the grocery store and Mr Leadfoot with the new Supra at the track are on the same schedule based on nothing but time of ownership. Doesn’t really hold water.

#2 He said 3000-5000 miles because he does this and does not care what other people say. Not much in the way of criteria engine type, driving habits, weather, etc.

# 3 In the end he landed on just do 5000/6-month if you don’t know what you’re doing and cause he says so.

This video is much ado about nothing IMO

 

[someonesomewhere]

How do I get this deleted? I did try searching.

Report your OP and the mods will kill it.

 

[gman2304]

The conventional actually impressed me more so than the synthetic….all things considered!

 

[Astro14]

Report your OP and the mods will kill it.

Merged the threads.

Cheers,

 

[Method]

# 1 His only criteria was how long you want to keep the vehicle which has very little to do with when you should do change the oil. So granny with the Camry going to church and the grocery store and Mr Leadfoot with the new Supra at the track are on the same schedule based on nothing but time of ownership. Doesn’t really hold water.

Of course it is. Because those parameters tell you how long you need the engine to last. Of course HOW you drive it factors in. It is a linear spectrum with your leadfoot Supra owner on one end and Grandma at the other. We should use common sense to adjust the recommendations for those users that fall out of the middle two thirds, or 'common drivers'. To me at least, that is a given.

#2 He said 3000-5000 miles because he does this and does not care what other people say. Not much in the way of criteria engine type, driving habits, weather, etc.

Right. He is the MIT engineer and did automotive engineering for Toyota. One does have to put on the thinking cap here, at least for a bit.

# 3 In the end he landed on just do 5000/6-month if you don’t know what you’re doing and cause he says so.

This video is much ado about nothing IMO

Sure, if you ignore his lifetime experience and education related to the topic. Personally, I don't ignore that at all, but you do you.

 

[someonesomewhere]

Manufacturers get CAFE breaks for publishing 'recommended' extended OCIs....don't forget that. They also get to claim 'less maintenance required', right or wrong.

Especially that last point there. They use that as a selling point for cheap and/or uninformed customers.

 

[Method]

You can call it what you like but if you spend a lot of time on this site you will realize that it’s more common than you previously thought.

Oh, I've been around this field all my life. There are always anecdotal examples. But if you are going to include those, don't forget to include other anecdotal examples like this one (For posterity, you really do have to watch and understand the video from a multi-generational Toyota mechanic).

Just one of many, many examples from the other end of the spectrum, since you want to include those. That's okay with me, but you can't just represent the anecdotal evidence from one end of the spectrum while excluding the other.

 

[Leo99]

Oh, I've been around this field all my life. There are always anecdotal examples. But if you are going to include those, don't forget to include other anecdotal examples like this one (For posterity, you really do have to watch and understand the video from a multi-generational Toyota mechanic).

Just one of many, many examples from the other end of the spectrum, since you want to include those. That's okay with me, but you can't just represent the anecdotal evidence from one end of the spectrum while excluding the other.

Seems that you want to put more weight on the anecdotal examples that concur with your opinion.

 

[Method]

Seems that you want to put more weight on the anecdotal examples that concur with your opinion.

Except that I didn't do that at all. I didn't bring up anecdotal examples at all until other people insisted on bringing in one sided anecdotal examples.

Of course you already knew that because you read through the thread completely, right?

 

[ATex7239]

Of course it is. Because those parameters tell you how long you need the engine to last. Of course HOW you drive it factors in. It is a linear spectrum with your leadfoot Supra owner on one end and Grandma at the other. We should use common sense to adjust the recommendations for those users that fall out of the middle two thirds, or 'common drivers'. To me at least, that is a given.

Right. He is the MIT engineer and did automotive engineering for Toyota. One does have to put on the thinking cap here, at least for a bit.

Sure, if you ignore his lifetime experience and education related to the topic. Personally, I don't ignore that at all, but you do you.

Appeal to authority is not enough for me. I need more than a video with opinions and his CV.

 

[Method]

Appeal to authority is not enough for me. I need more than a video with opinions and his CV.

That's cool; we'll just agree to disagree. His impressive credentials (lifelong engineer affiliated with BC and MIT) and his career as an automotive engineer for Toyota work for me, but opinions vary I guess.

 

[Leo99]

Except that I didn't do that at all. I didn't bring up anecdotal examples at all until other people insisted on bringing in one sided anecdotal examples.

Of course you already knew that because you read through the thread completely, right?

You countered anecdotal examples that you didn't agree with with ones that you do agree with. You posted the first counter anecdotal video as far as I can tell. What is your personal experience having worked in this area?

 

[wemay]

The conventional actually impressed me more so than the synthetic….all things considered!

If they both ran at 500k miles, that's a win for the Dino when looking at the big picture. And if the oci was lower, there possibly wouldn't have been waste-gate failure or stck rings.