Use 10W-20 as a replacement for XW-20 and XW-30 applications?

[BornSlippy]

For general guidance, I would say above freezing. Below that I think it is important to realize the lighter oils will shine. This particular oil was designed for warm climate use seeing triple digit heat. Low volatility was the goal. It is really good in that department.

How about a cold weather version in 0W-20? Zero or as low as possible VI. Like a Ravenol ECS.

 

[OVERKILL]

How about a cold weather version in 0W-20? Zero or as low as possible VI. Like a Ravenol ECS.

The oil he produced for me has a VI of 165, not quite as low as ECS at 156, but pretty low.

 

[Revving2Redline]

In winter id run the RL 5w20 for it's stability but the 10w20 has my attention for a summer or fall oil most certainly. I think the esters will keep everything clean and DI deposits in order.

 

[ZeeOSix]

SAE J300 says if an oil is rated as a "10W" that it has to pass the CCS test at -25C (-13F).

 

[userfriendly]

Yes I recall both SonOfJoe and Shannow talking about such things. They were both worth listening to.

Don't forget Solerant. Sonofjoe is retired, but Solerant is still working in the F&L industry.

 

[The Critic]

Picked up a case on Monday. Now I need to find something to use it in…

 

[The Critic]

Random data point:

2007 Pacifica Owners Manual:

Edit: FCA allows the usage of 10W-xx at temps above 0F but prefers the use of 5W-xx at temps below 32F.

So, the conservative recommendation is to probably restrict usage of this 10W-20 product to applications that do not see ambient temps below 32F.

 

[OVERKILL]

Random data point:

2007 Pacifica Owners Manual:

View attachment 116858

FCA said to use 10W-xx at temps above 32F and 5W-xx at temps below 32F.

So, the conservative recommendation is to probably restrict usage of this product to applications that do not see ambient temps below 32F.

Gives one a pretty good idea of how low the bar is for the API approval eh? In terms of shear resistance and stay-in-grade requirements.

 

[OhioTech]

I will respond as I’m using this oil. 2022 CX-9 Signature. EPA estimated economy is 20/26. Most people report that with the AWD models, they are struggling to get anywhere near that.

I have a 50/50 split lifetime - hand calculated with Fuelly, and a 24.7 average. When I went to Manteno for the open house - straight down 80 - averaged 28.5 mpg.

Wear numbers look excellent. Better than the 5W-30 samples I’ve seen - and it ends a normal interval at higher viscosity than many 5W-30s do because of the dilution issue.

I don’t expect below zero temperatures, and cold pumpability on this oil is better than many 5W-30s. CCS is barely above making a 5W rating. While it would be draggy for a 0W-20 or 5W-20 application - it functions near flawlessly where a 5W-30 is needed, and you are expecting to see high dilution and consumption.

If I drive it, as opposed to my wife - I can average around 26 mpg city and around 30.5 mpg hwy. I usually stick to my Alfa Romeo!

 

[The Critic]

I don’t expect below zero temperatures, and cold pumpability on this oil is better than many 5W-30s. CCS is barely above making a 5W rating.

I don’t think you can make that determination…unless you are privy to some data that we are not.

Since it is a 10W-xx, the CCS numbers are given at -25C, not -30C.

 

[OVERKILL]

I don’t think you can make that determination…unless you are pricy to some data that we are not.

Since it is a 10W-xx, the CCS numbers are given at -25C, not -30C.

Yup, rule of thumb is you double it for the next range down, so if it is like 5,000cP at -25C, then it would be around 10,000cP at -30C.

 

[Jetronic]

So, these two posts caught my attention:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...10w-20-4-897-miles.356305/page-2#post-6152289
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-performance-lubricants-pcmo-10w-20-voa.356676/

This HPL product appears to be a highly-additized, monograde SAE20 with long-drain capabilities. Yes, the price is high since it is a "high-end," low volume boutique product that you would have to run 10-15K miles in order for the cost to be comparable to OTC options. It is probably best reserved for out-of-warranty applications as well.

If my understanding is correct, this oil should theoretically offer better wear protection than most xw-20 oils on the market since it uses a 8cst base oil with no VII. Most OTC xw-20 oils have a base oil viscosity in the 5-6 cst range. The heavier base oil viscosity in the HPL 10W-20 equates to improved dynamic viscosity, which can be beneficial for bearing wear under high loads. Based on the calculations in @Gokhan's spreadsheet, I think this product uses a heavier base oil than most 5W-30 oils. For this reason, I would think that it can also be used in place of an API SP/GF-6 SAE 5W-30 product.

Tell me if I'm mistaken, but I think this might be a good unicorn product that actually justifies its boutique pricing. I am normally not a fan of boutique oils, but this one has caught my attention.

Base oil viscosity and winter rating are related. So yes it would have thicker base oil than a 5W-30 and possibly even a 10W-30

 

[Jetronic]

I would rather use their SAE 30 or 10W-30 in applications that call for a 30 grade.

I would have no problem using their 10W-20 for 20 grade applications. Seems to be a great product, along with the rest of their lineup.

Depends on the HTHS viscosity but if it's as high as a typical 30 grade I would use this in place of a 30...

 

[Jetronic]

Woud you want to run an A3/B4 addpack in a GTDI ?

I fully intend to yes

 

[OhioTech]

Depends on the HTHS viscosity but if it's as high as a typical 30 grade I would use this in place of a 30...

2.86. 2.9-3.5 is a U.S. 30. Older Euro 30s will be 3.5+.

Factory Mazda fill is 2.94. It also has significant dilution issues.

Seemed like a great option for my application!

The HTFS goes from the SN factory oil at 1.9, to about 2.7. My wear trends so far would play out that’s probably accurate.

 

[benjy]

more great info as usual + i am leaning towards trying some HPL lubes in my port injected 11 fronty BUT my girlfriends 18 DI 2.4L optima that uses No oil between 6 mo usually under 5 thou as recommended BLACKENS the oil beyond belief so wondering if a year with a HPL 10-30 to almost even out costs woulb be suitable + safe??

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

more great info as usual + i am leaning towards trying some HPL lubes in my port injected 11 fronty BUT my girlfriends 18 DI 2.4L optima that uses No oil between 6 mo usually under 5 thou as recommended BLACKENS the oil beyond belief so wondering if a year with a HPL 10-30 to almost even out costs woulb be suitable + safe??

Run it with periodic UOAs to determine max usage that maintains oil in spec, then roll with that from then on without periodic testing. That’s the only way to tell for sure

 

[Olds394]

Old thread but HPL has a 10w20 with VII now. Possibly would behave more like 5w20 below freezing?

 

[The Critic]

Old thread but HPL has a 10w20 with VII now. Possibly would behave more like 5w20 below freezing?

They do?

 

[#18FAN]

Old thread but HPL has a 10w20 with VII now. Possibly would behave more like 5w20 below freezing?

It would be labeled 5w20 if it met the spec.