Use 10W-20 as a replacement for XW-20 and XW-30 applications?

The Critic

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What about DI deposits?
Can you elaborate?

You may be using it in an in-warranty application, but that doesn't mean everyone else should have the same comfort level.

If I needed a 20 grade oil, then HPL 10W20 would be at the top of my list. The idea of a full synthetic (Group IV & V), shear free monograde with a modern additive package has a lot of appeal to me.

A 10Wx oil is good down to 0F (-20c) for cold starting, which would also be enough for me.

Good point, and thanks for clarifying, so as not to confuse others. I was more saying it does contain the higher Groups, which many budget synthetics do not.

BTW Group III and GTL base stock only comes in thinner viscosities such a 2, 4, and 6 cSt (KV100). The HPL 10W20 has a KV100 = 8.62 cSt, and with no VII polymer to thicken it up, it needs some of the higher Groups (IV / V) present.
Yes, I believe it is a Group III with AN and ester.
 

The Critic

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Too bad @SonofJoe / @Sonofsonof isn’t around anymore. He was dreaming of 10W20 being an ideal oil.


 
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I recall SonOfJoe suggesting hypothetical (because no mass-market blenders made such a thing) 10W-20 with little or no VII as better cost/performance compromise than common grades for moderate climates.
Non mainstream grades are a hard sell. Take Chevron's 15w30, the perfect oil that nobody bought. I like to get as much HTHS bang for my
KV100C buck, especially with variable pressure oil pumps.
It takes a lot of extra oil pressure to increase the flow through bearings and you won't get that by moving up a SAE grade with variable pumps.

Take 0W40, the darling grade of BITOG. The consumer offerings have a HTHS of around 3.6, which any self respecting 5w30 or 10w30 achieves.
The commerical 0w40s have a HTHS closer to 4.0, cost more, at least they should and have a longer service life.

Because of the higher KV100C viscosity of 0W40 for the same 3.6 HTHS of a 10w30, less oil flow through the bearings will result.

If products like 10w30, 15w40 and 10w20 work and are cost effective, there must be something wrong and a case built against them.
 
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Good point, and thanks for clarifying, so as not to confuse others. I was more saying it does contain the higher Groups, which many budget synthetics do not.

BTW Group III and GTL base stock only comes in thinner viscosities such a 2, 4, and 6 cSt (KV100). The HPL 10W20 has a KV100 = 8.62 cSt, and with no VII polymer to thicken it up, it needs some of the higher Groups (IV / V) present.

Group III comes in 8 cSt.
 

The Critic

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If products like 10w30, 15w40 and 10w20 work and are cost effective, there must be something wrong and a case built against them.
It is probably fuel economy related. During vehicle warm-up, I would expect fuel economy to be measurably worse with a 10W20 compared to a 0W20. This is probably most noticeable in city-driven hybrids where the oil temp probably doesn’t stay close to 200F.

It would be interesting to test this in my own Prius and see if there’s a measurable reduction in fuel economy compared to a 0W20. My guess is yes, especially during the winter months.

1658556206478.jpg


Looks like the biggest differences are between 32F-95F. After that, all 3 grades perform fairly similarly. I guess it comes down to how long it takes for your engine oil to go from 32F-95F. In some climates I suppose that could be a while. For me, mine usually starts out around 70F anyway and passes 100F within a min or two of driving.

Note:
5W-20 and 10W-20 are HPL Standard PCMO
0W-20 is HPL Premium PCMO
 
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SR5

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Non mainstream grades are a hard sell. Take Chevron's 15w30, the perfect oil that nobody bought.
Yes, I was happy to see that oil being made, then sad to see it disappear a short time later, as it obviously didn't sell.

In Australia and New Zealand all the major brands a sell a very affordable 15W40 PCMO for cars, either mineral or semi-synthetic, usually rated something like API SN-Plus/SN/CF and ACEA A3/B3. They are very popular, but we have the climate for them, even in winter for most places here.
 
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No, not really: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ted-ups-just-dropped-off-the-packages.355350/


@High Performance Lubricants makes excellent products, well worth their asking price. I can't say the same about some of the other boutique lubes I've tried or read about. In time I will transition all our vehicles to their products. What other blender makes Overkill 0W-20? ... For @OVERKILL, of course! That's a unique 0W-20 blend that no other blender makes.
Their prices are actually fair . The shipping costs seem excessive though.
 
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Their prices are actually fair . The shipping costs seem excessive though.
@High Performance Lubricants doesn't set the shipping price. It's calculated by UPS, FedEx, etc. based on package weight, dimension, destination. I'm inclined to believe that they lost money on shipping more than once. Everyone got so addicted to Free Shipping that's an expected thing now. But there is no such thing, as shipping costs are always padded into the products you buy and get "free shipping" on.
 

The Critic

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Anyway, as much as I like the academic premise of a 10W20, there is one potential area of concern when using it in applications where 0W or 5W20 are recommended.

1658712173086.png

Note: 10W-20, 5W-20 and 5W-30 are from the Standard PCMO line. 0W-20 is from the Premium Plus line.

At temps under 30C (86F), there is a notable difference in its viscosity compared to a 0W or 5W20...especially once you get closer to the freezing mark. The 10W-20 behaves more like a 5W-30 once you get near freezing.

Obviously all VVT systems have to be able to tolerate different viscosities due to ambient temperature conditions, but I'm sure the OEM's software (logic) expects a certain type of behavior at a given ambient temp based on their recommended viscosity.

Point is, the 10W20 is probably an acceptable replacement for 0/5W-20 applications for those of us living in very warm or mild climates where it doesn't get near freezing on a regular basis. But it may not be the best fit for winter use if your car sees 0-30F temps AND your application calls for 0/5W-20.
 

The Critic

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You are correct. It would not be recommended as a cold climate oil.
What do you define as cold-climate? Anything under 32F or anything under 0F?

For general guidance, do you think this product is an ideal replacement for xW-30 applications, or would your 5W-30 be more appropriate?
 
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I imagine inappropriate for anything below -25C, but otherwise work well as long as you can maintain oil pressure and have tight control on oil temps.
 
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What do you define as cold-climate? Anything under 32F or anything under 0F?

For general guidance, do you think this product is an ideal replacement for xW-30 applications, or would your 5W-30 be more appropriate?
For general guidance, I would say above freezing. Below that I think it is important to realize the lighter oils will shine. This particular oil was designed for warm climate use seeing triple digit heat. Low volatility was the goal. It is really good in that department.
 
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