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Make her sign the prenup. If she won't,tell her to hit the road. BUT,if he acquired the money before they got/get married,it's a non issue. It's not community property.
Trust fund and Prenups
- Thread starter lawman1909
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Originally Posted By: JohnnyMerrill
if you're that worried, don't get married
exactly this, that girlfriend isn't worth it if you have to even consider this.
This is my personal opinion.
if you're that worried, don't get married
exactly this, that girlfriend isn't worth it if you have to even consider this.
This is my personal opinion.
I'm all for your friend educating himself on the potentials that could happen, but I'm not saying spend a couple grand on lawyers/etc to do it. He should definitely find out the smartest way to protect the trust fund. That is if he even needs to protect it with a prenup in case they get divorced. Isn't the divorce rate in the U.S. something above 70% now?
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Originally Posted By: JohnnyMerrill
if you're that worried, don't get married
50% of marriages end in divorce and most of that 50% gets somewhat ugly. Everyone should have a pre-nup. If one wants a prenup and the other doesn't there is a problem.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Marriage as many here already know is not love it's contractual.
X 1000
My message is then: The pile of money not withstanding..do a prenup.
Disclaimer we do not have a prenup (Married 47 years). I know if we would have gotten divorced early on we both would do the right thing. At least I think so.
if you're that worried, don't get married
50% of marriages end in divorce and most of that 50% gets somewhat ugly. Everyone should have a pre-nup. If one wants a prenup and the other doesn't there is a problem.
Originally Posted By: madRiver
Marriage as many here already know is not love it's contractual.
X 1000
My message is then: The pile of money not withstanding..do a prenup.
Disclaimer we do not have a prenup (Married 47 years). I know if we would have gotten divorced early on we both would do the right thing. At least I think so.
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ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
My wife has a really good sized trust fund. In Washington if we were to divorce I cannot touch it. Trust funds, from what I understand are set up different. It does not become community property unless she cashes out and uses it for something that is joint. It was set up before the marraige and the law in Washington states community property are things obtained/gathered during the marraige as long as she does not put the trust in my name. Even inhertance if only given to one spouse is not considered community property if it is kept seperate here. A Seperate trust set up by her grandmother has all the spouses names on it. I still don't get involved in it. It makes my life easy. If she ask for advice I may say something but that is it.
She recently accessed some of it because she wanted some stuff done on the house that was beyond my cability and mostly I didn't have the time. The rest of the money just sits there making more money everyday. I wouldn't dream of going after it if something happened.
She recently accessed some of it because she wanted some stuff done on the house that was beyond my cability and mostly I didn't have the time. The rest of the money just sits there making more money everyday. I wouldn't dream of going after it if something happened.
From what I have seen prenuptial agreements, no matter how "rock solid" as some put it earlier, mean nothing. Judges ignore them all the time. They ignore other legal documents as well such as the wife signing away her rights to marital assets long prior to the divorce( can be for very legit reasons )but then giving them to her after the divorce anyway. Judges/marital masters do what they want and it isn't always in accordance with the law.
Tell your friend if he has ANY doubts to hold off on the marriage or just don't marry her because if it ever does come to a divorce he will get screwed six ways from Sunday. The divorce laws in this country overwhelmingly favor the female at the male's expense. The judge will take everything he has and give it to her - "rock slid" prenuptial agreement or not.
I am not trying to turn this into marriage bash fest. The OP asked about prenuptial agreements and I am simply saying they are useless so don't count on that to save his friends money if he gets married and it goes south.
Tell your friend if he has ANY doubts to hold off on the marriage or just don't marry her because if it ever does come to a divorce he will get screwed six ways from Sunday. The divorce laws in this country overwhelmingly favor the female at the male's expense. The judge will take everything he has and give it to her - "rock slid" prenuptial agreement or not.
I am not trying to turn this into marriage bash fest. The OP asked about prenuptial agreements and I am simply saying they are useless so don't count on that to save his friends money if he gets married and it goes south.
This is kind of off topic, but here in Florida, accounts held in Joint Tenancy can not be challenged in court. My parents put all financial accounts in my name as JTWROS. A will won't do squat as Joint Tenancy avoids probate.
Laws vary from state to state, contact attorney who specializes in this field. I agree some courts favor the ex wife.
Laws vary from state to state, contact attorney who specializes in this field. I agree some courts favor the ex wife.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
This is kind of off topic, but here in Florida, accounts held in Joint Tenancy can not be challenged in court. My parents put all financial accounts in my name as JTWROS. A will won't do squat as Joint Tenancy avoids probate.
Laws vary from state to state, contact attorney who specializes in this field. I agree some courts favor the ex wife.
Right. Jointly held bank accounts and property with rights of survivorship avoid probate( here anyway ). That is one way to avoid problems if there is a death and should in theory at least protect 1/2 of the asset in a divorce. However, trust me some judges get very creative when seizing the man's assets to give to the wife.
I have a friend who literally had to flee the country( I am dead serious )because of how badly he was screwed over in his divorce. The judge took EVERYTHING he had and then kept putting him in jail because he couldn't pay the outrageous alimony and child support amount the judge set( he paid as much as he could ). The judge made it even worse by disallowing all support during the divorce proceedings( took over 3 years )and then awarding it at the end, all back dated to the 1st hearing, and dumping a $60K bill on my friend that had to be paid all at once. My friend worked hard, made a good living, was a devoted father and husband, didn't cheat or abuse the wife or kids( none even alleged ), but in the end he was treated as if he was the worst husband ever. The wife just didn't want to be married to him anymore. She wanted to be with her boyfriend.
The prenuptial was ignored( OP should take note - it happens ALL the time ), the legal documents waiving all the wife's spousal rights to some properties were ignored, and the judge even assigned a value to things left to my friend in his Dad's will so that it benefited the wife!!! Even though the Dad is still alive the judge counted the value of the items the wife wanted as part of my friend's share of the marital assets. It was an antique model train collection valued at approx. $16,000 that was left to my friend in his Dad's will. The wife filed for that( i.e. that it go to her when the Dad died )as part of the divorce. The judge counted that as part of the assets my friend got to keep. I don't mean he said no to her asking for it either because in effect he said yes. The judge let it stay going to my friend but the $16,000 counted towards the little he let him keep of the assets. Doesn't make any sense legally or common sense wise but he did it anyway and there was no way to hold him accountable( believe me my friend tried - even had judges on appeal agree it was wrong but they wouldn't reverse it ).
I am telling the 100% truth here and it is exactly what happened. Don't go into court for a divorce and expect to come out of it anything but screwed over if you are a man. Forget prenuptial agreements and basically forget common sense and the law. The judges generally do whatever they want and get away with it.
If I had a large sum of money like the OP's friend I would never get married. I just can not expect the legal system to defend me against a gold digger. The problem with them is you don't see them coming until it is too late. Even if they don't start out marrying you for that reason if a divorce ever comes up most turn into one real quick and trust me the court helps them and sides with them at every turn.
Again, I am not trying to make this a marriage bash fest. I am simply trying to point out that a prenuptial agreement for the OP's friend is no sure fire defense of his trust.
This is kind of off topic, but here in Florida, accounts held in Joint Tenancy can not be challenged in court. My parents put all financial accounts in my name as JTWROS. A will won't do squat as Joint Tenancy avoids probate.
Laws vary from state to state, contact attorney who specializes in this field. I agree some courts favor the ex wife.
Right. Jointly held bank accounts and property with rights of survivorship avoid probate( here anyway ). That is one way to avoid problems if there is a death and should in theory at least protect 1/2 of the asset in a divorce. However, trust me some judges get very creative when seizing the man's assets to give to the wife.
I have a friend who literally had to flee the country( I am dead serious )because of how badly he was screwed over in his divorce. The judge took EVERYTHING he had and then kept putting him in jail because he couldn't pay the outrageous alimony and child support amount the judge set( he paid as much as he could ). The judge made it even worse by disallowing all support during the divorce proceedings( took over 3 years )and then awarding it at the end, all back dated to the 1st hearing, and dumping a $60K bill on my friend that had to be paid all at once. My friend worked hard, made a good living, was a devoted father and husband, didn't cheat or abuse the wife or kids( none even alleged ), but in the end he was treated as if he was the worst husband ever. The wife just didn't want to be married to him anymore. She wanted to be with her boyfriend.
The prenuptial was ignored( OP should take note - it happens ALL the time ), the legal documents waiving all the wife's spousal rights to some properties were ignored, and the judge even assigned a value to things left to my friend in his Dad's will so that it benefited the wife!!! Even though the Dad is still alive the judge counted the value of the items the wife wanted as part of my friend's share of the marital assets. It was an antique model train collection valued at approx. $16,000 that was left to my friend in his Dad's will. The wife filed for that( i.e. that it go to her when the Dad died )as part of the divorce. The judge counted that as part of the assets my friend got to keep. I don't mean he said no to her asking for it either because in effect he said yes. The judge let it stay going to my friend but the $16,000 counted towards the little he let him keep of the assets. Doesn't make any sense legally or common sense wise but he did it anyway and there was no way to hold him accountable( believe me my friend tried - even had judges on appeal agree it was wrong but they wouldn't reverse it ).
I am telling the 100% truth here and it is exactly what happened. Don't go into court for a divorce and expect to come out of it anything but screwed over if you are a man. Forget prenuptial agreements and basically forget common sense and the law. The judges generally do whatever they want and get away with it.
If I had a large sum of money like the OP's friend I would never get married. I just can not expect the legal system to defend me against a gold digger. The problem with them is you don't see them coming until it is too late. Even if they don't start out marrying you for that reason if a divorce ever comes up most turn into one real quick and trust me the court helps them and sides with them at every turn.
Again, I am not trying to make this a marriage bash fest. I am simply trying to point out that a prenuptial agreement for the OP's friend is no sure fire defense of his trust.
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He should not tell the g/f about this. When they actually are ready for a ring and proposal, they need to be upfront and honest about their finances at that time and what the future looks like. That is when he brings it up.
If its a large amount (sorry $50k isn't anymore), then yes, get a prenup.
Currently if they're just boyfriend/girlfriend, no need for the talk.
Most marriages fail b/c of money issues. Not necessarily lack thereof, but different viewpoints on money. If they have a similar credit score, going in, they're more likely to have a successful marriage.
If its a large amount (sorry $50k isn't anymore), then yes, get a prenup.
Currently if they're just boyfriend/girlfriend, no need for the talk.
Most marriages fail b/c of money issues. Not necessarily lack thereof, but different viewpoints on money. If they have a similar credit score, going in, they're more likely to have a successful marriage.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
He should not tell the g/f about this. When they actually are ready for a ring and proposal, they need to be upfront and honest about their finances at that time and what the future looks like. That is when he brings it up.
If its a large amount (sorry $50k isn't anymore), then yes, get a prenup.
Currently if they're just boyfriend/girlfriend, no need for the talk.
Most marriages fail b/c of money issues. Not necessarily lack thereof, but different viewpoints on money. If they have a similar credit score, going in, they're more likely to have a successful marriage.
I actually agree with this. Don't mention the money until a proposal is in play. It could turn him into a target. Better to say nothing about the pot of gold and make sure she is marrying him for the right reason. However, with that said, to me it sounds like the OP's friend is at that point now.
He should not tell the g/f about this. When they actually are ready for a ring and proposal, they need to be upfront and honest about their finances at that time and what the future looks like. That is when he brings it up.
If its a large amount (sorry $50k isn't anymore), then yes, get a prenup.
Currently if they're just boyfriend/girlfriend, no need for the talk.
Most marriages fail b/c of money issues. Not necessarily lack thereof, but different viewpoints on money. If they have a similar credit score, going in, they're more likely to have a successful marriage.
I actually agree with this. Don't mention the money until a proposal is in play. It could turn him into a target. Better to say nothing about the pot of gold and make sure she is marrying him for the right reason. However, with that said, to me it sounds like the OP's friend is at that point now.
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OT: I knew a guy injured on the job and had to wear a halo / neck brace for 4 months. He sued his employer and got almost $500K. Luckily he recovered and had no permanent damage to his neck. A forklift landed on top of him and he had to be airlifted to trauma center.
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
$500K is a lot of money in one big lump sum. Never tell a woman about your financial windfall.
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
$500K is a lot of money in one big lump sum. Never tell a woman about your financial windfall.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
OT: I knew a guy injured on the job and had to wear a halo / neck brace for 4 months. He sued his employer and got almost $500K. Luckily he recovered and had no permanent damage to his neck. A forklift landed on top of him and he had to be airlifted to trauma center.
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
$500K is a lot of money in one big lump sum. Never tell a woman about your financial windfall.
Listen to the man, Trust is something that has to earned and never given.
OT: I knew a guy injured on the job and had to wear a halo / neck brace for 4 months. He sued his employer and got almost $500K. Luckily he recovered and had no permanent damage to his neck. A forklift landed on top of him and he had to be airlifted to trauma center.
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
$500K is a lot of money in one big lump sum. Never tell a woman about your financial windfall.
Listen to the man, Trust is something that has to earned and never given.
Prenup; if I ever get married I'd have to have a prenup to protect my business assets. At least for me that's none negotiable. I don't want to be cynical but a lot of marriages don't last and I don't want to be 50 or 60 losing half of my net worth getting divorced.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
Stupid, stupid, stupid......
Sudden, big money is a TRUE, ACID-test for character & responsibility; "The vast majority" will fail miserably. Lots of examples in the debris field of lives. He must have been bragging about his new found wealth to draw vultures.
I told him not to tell women he dated about the lawsuit settlement, but silly him he took time off from working and the women were like vultures on dead roadkill. I haven't spoken to the guy since 2003.... But I'm sure all his cash is gone. He bought a big house, 350Z, out to bars, dated lots of skanks, spent money, vacations. He lived it up.
Stupid, stupid, stupid......
Sudden, big money is a TRUE, ACID-test for character & responsibility; "The vast majority" will fail miserably. Lots of examples in the debris field of lives. He must have been bragging about his new found wealth to draw vultures.
Originally Posted By: 04SE
A good lawyer and good banker can lock that money up tight and be divorce, judgement AND levy proof.
Nope. A divorce judge can and will tear up ANYTHING and award her everything. Only way to come out ahead is to have a stash that she does not know about. (As in: stacks of cash in a safe deposit box.)
A good lawyer and good banker can lock that money up tight and be divorce, judgement AND levy proof.
Nope. A divorce judge can and will tear up ANYTHING and award her everything. Only way to come out ahead is to have a stash that she does not know about. (As in: stacks of cash in a safe deposit box.)
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
So, this is dealing with a current scenario in a friend's life who is concerned over this topic. Said person has money in a trust fund. This person is financially responsible, hoping to use it to help buy a home when they are of age. They are wondering if, A.) tell their girlfriend of it, and ask for a prenuptial agreement if they get married, or B.) don't tell, and if marriage happens, then let the other know when that time comes. How do you all suggest this person go about it? My recommendations are to side with being honest and asking for a Prenup, but that's just me. Since Prenups can be a sore subject, I'd like to hear from you all. Thoughts?
Do not even consider marriage under any circumstances except snaring himself a rich widow or heiress. Otherwise, it is a bit l,ike playing Russian Roulette with three in the cylinder.
So, this is dealing with a current scenario in a friend's life who is concerned over this topic. Said person has money in a trust fund. This person is financially responsible, hoping to use it to help buy a home when they are of age. They are wondering if, A.) tell their girlfriend of it, and ask for a prenuptial agreement if they get married, or B.) don't tell, and if marriage happens, then let the other know when that time comes. How do you all suggest this person go about it? My recommendations are to side with being honest and asking for a Prenup, but that's just me. Since Prenups can be a sore subject, I'd like to hear from you all. Thoughts?
Do not even consider marriage under any circumstances except snaring himself a rich widow or heiress. Otherwise, it is a bit l,ike playing Russian Roulette with three in the cylinder.
There are some messed up mofos hanging out here. But then we already knew that.
The guy I knew didn't work for about two years, when these women asked where he got his money from.... He let the cat out of bag.
OP:
$50K is a nice chunk of cash, but I doubt it would influence her decision or actions. If she found out about the cash she will be expecting a very nice ring.
OP:
$50K is a nice chunk of cash, but I doubt it would influence her decision or actions. If she found out about the cash she will be expecting a very nice ring.
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