logged into account and money gone

[supton]

I think you can take a loan against a 401K, but I'm not going to do that.

You can. I have, but I think in my case it made sense: I was moving, and needed the money for the 23 hours that I would own 2 houses. Longer if you wish due to banking transactions, but you get the idea. I think it was $50 for the loan origination, and the money I had out was not earning interest for about 4 weeks total. A personal loan would have cost me ___?

I was contemplating taking a small loan recently for car buying (like less than 5% of my 401k holdings) but one of the catches is, if you change jobs, you have to repay the loan back very quickly--or risk it being a withdrawal and then paying a 10% penalty, then ordinary income taxes on it. Also, at least for my 401k plan, I cannot pay extra each month, I can only make the scheduled payment, or pay off fully. Lots of little catches, but, it probably makes sense, some of the time. [Also: loans are limited to 50% of the 401k value or up to $50k, whichever is the smaller number.]

For the 401k loan, you do pay interest, but it goes back to yourself, so that is an upshot--but that is money you pay, not earn, so nothing really gained here. Really should be one of the last arrows in one's quiver of dealing with money issues in life.

 

[zzyzzx]

You can. I have, but I think in my case it made sense: I was moving, and needed the money for the 23 hours that I would own 2 houses. Longer if you wish due to banking transactions, but you get the idea. I think it was $50 for the loan origination, and the money I had out was not earning interest for about 4 weeks total. A personal loan would have cost me ___?

That would be the rare case where a 401K loan would make sense that I certainly didn't think of.

 

[opus1]

...one of the catches is, if you change jobs, you have to repay the loan back very quickly--or risk it being a withdrawal and then paying a 10% penalty, then ordinary income taxes on it.

That's why I don't touch the money for any reason. At one job, a coworker took a loan against her 401(k) to build a house. Our department was outsourced and she faced having to pay the loan back before we cut over to the new company, or deal with the tax issues. Fortunately, the outsourcing company made arrangements which allowed her to keep paying back the loan to the new company's 401(k) but she lost a lot of sleep during that transition.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I searched through Vanguard US Mail correspondence, and came across a letter stating my employer plan is moving to a new recordkeeper.

Continue to search junk mail, and find a letter from this co stating that my retirement is moving to them …

Take away … read all recieved mail associated with your investments. Don't assume it's junk mail without verifying.

 

[ATex7239]

Re: Asset Protection

Recommend umbrella insurance regardless of retirement plan.

 

[John105]

Take away … read all recieved mail associated with your investments. Don't assume it's junk mail without verifying.

Unfortunately, I was the same with the Broadcom takeover of vmWare. I called at the 11th hour and got the stock and cash at JPM, but neglected the Fidelity IRA and got cash only. I have to admit there were "numerous" mailings asking for my intentions and warning of the deadline.

 

[zzyzzx]

and will be locked out 9/11 through the end of September, and there will be no access whatsoever to the funds nor the account.

I have to question why that is taking so long.

 

[supton]

Re: Asset Protection

Recommend umbrella insurance regardless of retirement plan.

Odd that one needs insurance on top of insurance in order to get by in life. I get it, it's "cheap insurance" but still. It's an obstacle to building wealth (one more thing to spend money on).

and will be locked out 9/11 through the end of September, and there will be no access whatsoever to the funds nor the account.

I have to question why that is taking so long.

I agree, sounds like a long time. Maybe that is normal, many accounts to flip over... but still, even if it was done, one by one, it really only should take a couple of days per account? seems sketchy. I don't recall how long our blackout period was (Schwab to Fidelity), but in this era of computers, it should be pretty fast.

 

[opus1]

...I agree, sounds like a long time. Maybe that is normal, many accounts to flip over... but still, even if it was done, one by one, it really only should take a couple of days per account? seems sketchy. I don't recall how long our blackout period was (Schwab to Fidelity), but in this era of computers, it should be pretty fast.

Today's I/T is not what it used to be. Things that used to take a weekend, a long holiday weekend at most, now seem to take weeks to implement. And then clean up afterward.

I'll go crawl back into the tar pit with the rest of the dinosaurs now...

 

[ATex7239]

Odd that one needs insurance on top of insurance in order to get by in life. I get it, it's "cheap insurance" but still. It's an obstacle to building wealth (one more thing to spend money on).

Sure. Umbrella is like gap in that it’s insurance on top of insurance. However the cost is minimal. Ours is a couple hundred annually for a couple million in coverage and it is tied to our home owners policy so we never even notice it.

I suppose anything can technically be an obstacle. However I don’t subscribe to the “you could be investing that money” notion that seems to get tied to any spending people don’t agree with. At a certain point it’s just more investing cause you want more. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make the person automatically financially frivolous for not doing the same thing. Which is kind of the undertone of the comment IMO.

 

[supton]

I suppose anything can technically be an obstacle. However I don’t subscribe to the “you could be investing that money” notion that seems to get tied to any spending people don’t agree with. At a certain point it’s just more investing cause you want more. Which is fine. But it doesn’t make the person automatically financially frivolous for not doing the same thing. Which is kind of the undertone of the comment IMO.

That's a fair point, but looking at my budget for next year, I'm seeing a gap. As in, my projections don't allow for paying for this trivial cost. I could--by putting less into retirement, or someplace else.

It's part of a larger sentiment that I have. One buys a nicer car. Now they need a garage to put it into... and spend money on washing supplies etc. They buy the better house... now they need an alarm system. And an umbrella policy in case someone slips on the sidewalk outside. The house comes with a bigger yard... now they need a riding mower. And a shed to put it into. Everything keeps escalating if you get ahead, so many little things are required if you go next step.

 

[John105]

Here's something interesting. I woke up at 4 AM, and thought about this topic.....and remembered that September (blackout) is over with. I was able to create a login to Empower--have received nothing since I created this post.

At any rate, I got in, and all my funds are exactly the same as before, all Vanguard. Excuse my ignorance but my brother works for a Swiss co. and he said his funds were also moved to Empower. And thinking back, the Vanguard letter said your employer has selected a new "record keeper." It would seem my funds are identical as before. I will do some more research, but possibly leave things alone...(what I don't really want to do is to figure out equivalent funds at Fidelity. I had thought that my account would be in a bunch of unknown funds). Also everything is effective October 1, 2024, so I didn't miss much by logging in just now...

 

[John105]

and will be locked out 9/11 through the end of September, and there will be no access whatsoever to the funds nor the account.

I have to question why that is taking so long.

What I know is very little, but since my bro mentioned Empower, maybe this is the latest thing? I am almost 100%, the entire balance of each fund I held, is now there when I log into Empower, and it is no longer at Vanguard, even though, they are all the same Vanguard funds. Definitely there are HR folks here than understand the reasoning. Why so long, not sure but maybe under the blanket of it's an entire corporation?

I know this much now that I punched everything in....I didn't get a chance to pat myself on the back at the very top, it's probably a hair over 1% down from all time highs (compare that $ amount to a $92k Tahoe, it's a lot %-wise lol).

I tell myself no way to time the market, so even a 20% clip can happen and unavoidable.

fun and true: It seems my retirement balance has doubled since the start of 2020. Non retirement, I see that amazon has doubled since late 2019, but is seriously lagging Lowe's, Facebook, and Costco. Some all time dogs are Cisco and Citi. Just seems to me the last 56 months have been critical to stay invested.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here's something interesting. I woke up at 4 AM, and thought about this topic.....and remembered that September (blackout) is over with. I was able to create a login to Empower--have received nothing since I created this post.

At any rate, I got in, and all my funds are exactly the same as before, all Vanguard. Excuse my ignorance but my brother works for a Swiss co. and he said his funds were also moved to Empower. And thinking back, the Vanguard letter said your employer has selected a new "record keeper." It would seem my funds are identical as before.

The key words is "record keeper". Your funds are still with Vanguard. This is not uncommon, my company 401K has been "record kept" by a few different companies over the years. Currently it's handled by Fidelity.

 

[John105]

Guess what, as it turns out, wife is like me.

She got a letter to login or call so one of her accounts won’t be considered abandoned property.

Well, she can’t do 2 factor authentication as we switched our cell phones and numbers 2 years ago. Now she said oh **** I better check the other 3 retirement accounts. She’s gonna go through what I did when I forgot to update my cell for 2 factor. It cannot be resolved over the phone. But what if a person has no mobile phone? It’s possible imho.

On one hand, S&P hit how many new highs just this year? On the other hand yes, we should be more active in our financial management.

 

[ZeeOSix]

She’s gonna go through what I did when I forgot to update my cell for 2 factor. It cannot be resolved over the phone. But what if a person has no mobile phone? It’s possible imho.

Two factor authentication typically gives you an email option ... so a code is sent to an email instead of a cell phone. People can't really operate very well these days without an email account or a cell phone.

I check all my accounts at least once a month, and bank account around 2-3 times a week. These days you have to keep an eye on that kind of stuff.

 

[Pablo]

On one hand, S&P hit how many new highs just this year? On the other hand yes, we should be more active in our financial management.

Listen son, when they told you not to peek at your $ too much, they should use an asterisk. Like every 5 minutes might be excessive, once a week or month is not.

I mean dang, if a cockroach ferts near my credit card, I get a text and an email. Just sayin'.

PS EDIT. Add this:

 

[John105]

Listen son, when they told you not to peek at your $ too much, they should use an asterisk. Like every 5 minutes might be excessive, once a week or month is not.

I mean dang, if a cockroach ferts near my credit card, I get a text and an email. Just sayin'.

PS EDIT. Add this:

I think you need platinum to get the alerts you speak of.....

 

[Glenda W.]

Your cousin was right. Rollover to an IRA. Typically the fees are less with more investment options. Your lucky your funds transferred inkind to the new 401k. Very commonly investments get cashed out then transferred sometimes sitting for a long time before it’s noticed.

 

[John105]

I suppose I can say my wife is worse than I am. She waded through the formalities and is all set again. Her account has 4x what she had thought it did.

Again I will admit we’re fortunate that in our lifetimes, stocks have just kept going up. I heard 43rd record high for the Dow. So not doing anything for a year or more (I don’t know if I heard her right dormant 10?) has been ok. But generally not the best idea.

Still, what if I don’t use a mobile phone…don’t have an email.

All but Fidelity was a major hassle that could not be resolved on a phone call, when 2 factor means was not updated to new cell.

On this Empower thing—it was down last Sunday no explanation. That evening ok.

Think I already mentioned it, wife has personal IRA where she rolled in person at Fidelity. She had post tax contributions as well and the rep screwed it up rolling all
As one. She worked in that industry before so I know it’s often people just starting a career etc they do the 7 66 24 and move on in a year or two.