Toyota claims 10K Synth vs 5K Conv

[theaveng]

Toyota Disclaimer: The 10,000 mile service will work but will eventually wear-out the engine, and give us an opportunity to sell you a new one. Think of it as economic "stimulus". (For the Prius they said the battery would last the life of the car. They then admitted that's 300,000 kilometers or 180,000 miles.) I am extremely skeptical of these manufacturers pushing us to 5w-20 and soon 0w-10 oils, just to increase MPG for the U.S. government.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Donald


I do not agree. The less maintenance a vehicle needs compared to other makes the better for your company. You hype it as a competitive advantage. Thus long life coolant, platinum plugs, synthetic ATF & oil, ceramic brake pads, maint. free batteries, no zerk fittings, etc.


I understand your point. However, if it's merely hype then why not recommend 10,000 mile intervals based on conventional oil?

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: theaveng
Toyota Disclaimer: The 10,000 mile service will work but will eventually wear-out the engine, and give us an opportunity to sell you a new one. Think of it as economic "stimulus". (For the Prius they said the battery would last the life of the car. They then admitted that's 300,000 kilometers or 180,000 miles.) I am extremely skeptical of these manufacturers pushing us to 5w-20 and soon 0w-10 oils, just to increase MPG for the U.S. government.



Only issue with that is the UK and likely most of Western Europe have longer OCI than US and semi synth is a minimum spec, severe service some, like Renault advise to stick with same oil in the case of my wife's Clio it is full synth but half the interval. Volvo/Ford say normal service then semi (12.5k miles) on a turbo diesel but for maximum protection use full synth and for severe service same interval with full synth they also advise going from 5w30 to 0w30 for best engine protection.

And as far as Prius battery packs giving up the ghost at 180k there are thousands of Prius being used for Private Hire "taxi" work in London and lots of them have done huge mileages on original battery packs.

In fact there is very little talk about battery packs in the motor trade with either the Insight/Civic IMA or Prius giving problems. And there are many that are nearly 14 yrs old now.

There are a lot of '98 Prius that came to the UK from Japan and they seem to be going well, though despite the age they do have low miles.

There is also not huge numbers of cars getting new engines in the UK due to long OCI with synthetic oils, only people ruining there engines due to not changing it, run ing dino too long or simply never checking it.

The new Fiat 500 TwinAir engine has been seizing at an alarming rate since release purely down to owner neglect.

Fiat strip the engine down and do UOA and refuse warranty coverage. Fiat garages are sourcing rebuilt engines from an engineering company that is doing really good business as they are half the price of a brand new Fiat engine.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/maintenance/synthetic-motor-oil

Toyota has a specific synthetic OCI.


Toyota states the service life of synthetic is twice that of conventional: "With synthetic oil, most Toyota models can extend their oil change interval from 5000 miles to 10,000 miles."
They only excluded two trucks (the 4cyl 4Runner and the Tacoma) from the list. It's applicable to all their other vehicles. Toyota must have collected a formidable amount of data, regarding the superiority of synthetic oil, for them to make an official guideline declaration.

Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?


NO! Some engines produce more fuel contamination and some trucks are subject to extreme service issues like too much time at idle or off roading in dusty conditions. Contamination effects conventional and synthetics oils to the same extent and to the same effect.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so it would be interesting to see if a good quality conventional oil could survive 10K miles in UOA results terms.
If you ignore contamination issues and severe service considerations, a good quality full synthetic like Castrol Edge or Liqui Moly Synthoil will last about 50% longer than a major brand conventional oil like GTX. I have not seen too many UOA results from supermarket own label oils, but it might well be that a full synthetic does last 100% longer.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Isn't Toyota still recommending 5k OCIs with their synthetic oil in Canada (Canada and Mexico automatically fall into the severe service according to my Mazda manual)?

That's true.
In another thread a year or so ago, when Toyota USA increased the OCI to 10,000 miles, Toyota Canada was quoted that they would not be following suit since our climate and driving conditions were considered harsher.

There are quite a number of 10,000 miles UOAs posted now on the Toyota 0W-20 in Toyotas and while they are generally universally good, I think most would agree the oil is fully done by that point. But what comes to mind is, don't Toyotas have OLMs like most other makes today? That said, I can't see how a car which is used strictly for short commutes where the oil never gets up to temperature can go 10,000 miles.

 

[tig1]

So what scares you guys about 10K OCIs? A piece of cake with the right oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: tig1
So what scares you guys about 10K OCIs? A piece of cake with the right oil.


This is true, but the right conditions help, and how long it takes to accumulate those 10K miles.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But what comes to mind is, don't Toyotas have OLMs like most other makes today?
They do not. Has a 5k Maintenance Required light which is annoying when the OCI is 10k. But there are things at that interval that are supposed to be checked per manual. So I suppose for some, its a good reminder to check the oil.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay

Toyota states the service life of synthetic is twice that of conventional: "With synthetic oil, most Toyota models can extend their oil change interval from 5000 miles to 10,000 miles."


No, it's more complicated than that.
It used to be 7,500 miles on conventional, scaled down to 5,000 after the sludge scare and now extended to 10,000 miles. So, 5,000 miles was an aberration caused by the sludge scare IMHO.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I can't see how a car which is used strictly for short commutes where the oil never gets up to temperature can go 10,000 miles.


That is taken care by the 12 months limit on OCI. 10,000 miles OR 12 months, whichever comes first.

 

[PSE]

My 2011 Sienna 3.5L is approved for 10k intervals with 0w-20 as long as you don't tow or use a roof mounted storage box. In those cases, you are only good for 5k miles.

The interval disclaimers seem a little too sensitive. I'm splitting the difference.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Toyota still has a 5k severe service interval. From page 38 of 2012 Camry Manual:

5,000 miles or 6 months

Additional Maintenance Items for
Special Operating Conditions 2

Repeated trips of less than five miles in
temperatures below 32°F / 0°C:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

Extensive idling and/or low speed driving
for a long distance such as police, taxi or
door-to-door delivery use:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

2 Perform these service items only if you drive primarily under the conditions indicated.


My bone with Toyota is they defined the severe service too restrictive with almost no one qualifying (except for taxi and police). This was, IMHO, the real source of sludge in soccer moms cars.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: tig1
So what scares you guys about 10K OCIs? A piece of cake with the right oil.

And the right engine.

My 2012 V6 Sienna rarely exceeds 3000 rpm. It is neither DI nor turbo. I didn't test the oil before the dealer changed it at 9300 but it looked a LOT healthier than 3000 mile oil in my MS3.

One really interesting note in the owners manual (apparently they've been watching Honda Odyssey VCMs!) is what they consider "normal" oil consumption: 1liter/1000km!!! That's 1.05 qts/621 miles for those of you in Rosalinda.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver


My 2012 V6 Sienna rarely exceeds 3000 rpm. It is neither DI nor turbo. I didn't test the oil before the dealer changed it at 9300 but it looked a LOT healthier than 3000 mile oil in my MS3.

One really interesting note in the owners manual (apparently they've been watching Honda Odyssey VCMs!) is what they consider "normal" oil consumption: 1liter/1000km!!! That's 1.05 qts/621 miles for those of you in Rosalinda.


Most people with oil leaks don't even see that level of consumption. I should know...I'm one of them.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Indydriver


My 2012 V6 Sienna rarely exceeds 3000 rpm. It is neither DI nor turbo. I didn't test the oil before the dealer changed it at 9300 but it looked a LOT healthier than 3000 mile oil in my MS3.

One really interesting note in the owners manual (apparently they've been watching Honda Odyssey VCMs!) is what they consider "normal" oil consumption: 1liter/1000km!!! That's 1.05 qts/621 miles for those of you in Rosalinda.


Most people with oil leaks don't even see that level of consumption. I should know...I'm one of them.

I forgot to add my 2012 didn't burn a drop of oil in the first oil change cycle.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Indydriver


My 2012 V6 Sienna rarely exceeds 3000 rpm. It is neither DI nor turbo. I didn't test the oil before the dealer changed it at 9300 but it looked a LOT healthier than 3000 mile oil in my MS3.

One really interesting note in the owners manual (apparently they've been watching Honda Odyssey VCMs!) is what they consider "normal" oil consumption: 1liter/1000km!!! That's 1.05 qts/621 miles for those of you in Rosalinda.


Most people with oil leaks don't even see that level of consumption. I should know...I'm one of them.


Wow even my now departed Aerostar with the rotted oil pan, and lead flashing patch I had holding it together didn't use that much oil!

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Indydriver

I forgot to add my 2012 didn't burn a drop of oil in the first oil change cycle.


How many quarts does that model hold?

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Indydriver


My 2012 V6 Sienna rarely exceeds 3000 rpm. It is neither DI nor turbo. I didn't test the oil before the dealer changed it at 9300 but it looked a LOT healthier than 3000 mile oil in my MS3.

One really interesting note in the owners manual (apparently they've been watching Honda Odyssey VCMs!) is what they consider "normal" oil consumption: 1liter/1000km!!! That's 1.05 qts/621 miles for those of you in Rosalinda.


Most people with oil leaks don't even see that level of consumption. I should know...I'm one of them.


Wow even my now departed Aerostar with the rotted oil pan, and lead flashing patch I had holding it together didn't use that much oil!


Maybe Toyota needs to recommend the lead flashing patch on vehicles experiencing a high rate of consumption.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Toyota still has a 5k severe service interval. From page 38 of 2012 Camry Manual:

5,000 miles or 6 months

Additional Maintenance Items for
Special Operating Conditions 2

Repeated trips of less than five miles in
temperatures below 32°F / 0°C:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

Extensive idling and/or low speed driving
for a long distance such as police, taxi or
door-to-door delivery use:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

2 Perform these service items only if you drive primarily under the conditions indicated.


My bone with Toyota is they defined the severe service too restrictive with almost no one qualifying (except for taxi and police). This was, IMHO, the real source of sludge in soccer moms cars.

I think its somewhat subjective. If you took out "police, taxi or door-to-door delivery use", its a description of my 80yo dads driving conditions. It actually works out. My dad calls me to change the oil around 7500 when he gets sick of the 5k maintenance light.

Sorry dad.

 

[Indydriver]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Indydriver

I forgot to add my 2012 didn't burn a drop of oil in the first oil change cycle.


How many quarts does that model hold?

6 which helps obviously.