Toyota claims 10K Synth vs 5K Conv

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/maintenance/synthetic-motor-oil

Toyota has a specific synthetic OCI.


Toyota states the service life of synthetic is twice that of conventional: "With synthetic oil, most Toyota models can extend their oil change interval from 5000 miles to 10,000 miles."
They only excluded two trucks (the 4cyl 4Runner and the Tacoma) from the list. It's applicable to all their other vehicles. Toyota must have collected a formidable amount of data, regarding the superiority of synthetic oil, for them to make an official guideline declaration.

Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

From what we've seen on here, most synthetics should be capable of 10k.

What worries me is the people that will run their engine dry from not checking the oil for 10k.

 

[RTexasF]

Odd that they left out the 2.5l four banger in the RAV4 , it is standard with 0W20 I believe. The RAV4 V-6 is not.....5W30 every 6 months or 5K..

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?

Not sure if the reason to stick with 5k in older models is the TBN issues, oil-filter-clogging issues, or oil-consumption issues (the engine going dry in 10,000 miles as the other poster said).

I would be most worried (1) about the TBN. I would say do UOAs with TBN and increase the OCI gradually to see if the TBN still stays above 2 or so.

Then, (2) there are the oil-filter clogging issues. Older models can clog the oil filters sooner and before 10k is reached you may have an open bypass valve with dirty oil regularly circulating in the engine.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/maintenance/synthetic-motor-oil

Toyota has a specific synthetic OCI.


Toyota states the service life of synthetic is twice that of conventional: "With synthetic oil, most Toyota models can extend their oil change interval from 5000 miles to 10,000 miles."
They only excluded two trucks (the 4cyl 4Runner and the Tacoma) from the list. It's applicable to all their other vehicles. Toyota must have collected a formidable amount of data, regarding the superiority of synthetic oil, for them to make an official guideline declaration.

Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?


I would love to see the UOA on the vehicles that were analyzed. How close to 1 are they running the TBN? Is this an engine durability statement or marketing? Its a competitive advantage to run an engine 10K with no oil change. Will going to 10K OCI effect the life of the engine? Or who cares as long as it makes it to 100K with 10 changes?

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?

Not sure if the reason to stick with 5k in older models is the TBN issues, oil-filter-clogging issues, or oil-consumption issues (the engine going dry in 10,000 miles as the other poster said).

I would be most worried (1) about the TBN. I would say do UOAs with TBN and increase the OCI gradually to see if the TBN still stays above 2 or so.

Then, (2) there are the oil-filter clogging issues. Older models can clog the oil filters sooner and before 10k is reached you may have an open bypass valve with dirty oil regularly circulating in the engine.


The filter clogging could be an issue if someone reads this who was using Family Dollar motor oil and now switches to PU going 10K.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


What worries me is the people that will run their engine dry from not checking the oil for 10k.


That's the first thing that came to my mind when I started reading about long OCI's. Running them low/dry. As a used car shopper I always loved the 3 month/ 3000 mile cycle. It significantly reduces the chances of an average person running dry.

 

[randomhero439]

Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Odd that they left out the 2.5l four banger in the RAV4 , it is standard with 0W20 I believe. The RAV4 V-6 is not.....5W30 every 6 months or 5K..


Probably because its a heavier vehicle with a weak 4-cylinder. The V6 doesnt have to work as hard so it can fall into the 10k interval. Engine has to work harder to accelerate, therefore oil has to work harder

 

[LeakySeals]

Toyota still has a 5k severe service interval. From page 38 of 2012 Camry Manual:

5,000 miles or 6 months

Additional Maintenance Items for
Special Operating Conditions 2

Repeated trips of less than five miles in
temperatures below 32°F / 0°C:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

Extensive idling and/or low speed driving
for a long distance such as police, taxi or
door-to-door delivery use:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

2 Perform these service items only if you drive primarily under the conditions indicated.

 

[1999nick]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
From what we've seen on here, most synthetics should be capable of 10k.

What worries me is the people that will run their engine dry from not checking the oil for 10k.


As I recollect, this was the real problem that eventually caused the makers of Mobil One to back off of their 25,000 mile or one year OCI claim. Some people were not checking their oil level and were ruining their engines when the level got too low, and then expected the oil company to pay for the damage.

I used M1 as it was designed to be run, that is, I always did a one year OCI. From 1977 to 2001, this was 18,000 to 20,000 miles a year. I usually had to add a couple of quarts. I never had any engine problems. However, this was back when M1 was really fully synthetic; I'm not sure I would trust these so-called "fully synthetic" oils of today to go that distance. I retired back in 2001, and my yearly driving since then has averaged 9,000 miles.

My current vehicle, a 2005 Nissan Pathfinder, goes the 9,000 miles with NO oil usage. I am using M1 0W40 oil in it.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Toyota still has a 5k severe service interval. From page 38 of 2012 Camry Manual:

5,000 miles or 6 months

Additional Maintenance Items for
Special Operating Conditions 2

Repeated trips of less than five miles in
temperatures below 32°F / 0°C:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

Extensive idling and/or low speed driving
for a long distance such as police, taxi or
door-to-door delivery use:
Replace engine oil and oil filter

2 Perform these service items only if you drive primarily under the conditions indicated.


Yes and I'm sure that is also relatable to just about any vehicle. Severe service = short OCI.

 

[LeakySeals]

Agreed. Thought it was worth pointing out, many recent posts discuss Toyota claiming 10k OCI for all conditions when they are not.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Absolutely. It's always worth pointing that out. Especially for the many people who breeze through this site for quick info. After all we might be buying a used car from them someday.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: Donald


I would love to see the UOA on the vehicles that were analyzed. How close to 1 are they running the TBN? Is this an engine durability statement or marketing?


I don't think it's durability or marketing. Toyota's merely stating that synthetic has a considerably longer service life than conventional. If they were an oil company the legitimacy might be questionable but as an engine builder I doubt any bias whatsoever.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: randomhero439
http://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/maintenance/synthetic-motor-oil

Toyota has a specific synthetic OCI.


Toyota states the service life of synthetic is twice that of conventional: "With synthetic oil, most Toyota models can extend their oil change interval from 5000 miles to 10,000 miles."
They only excluded two trucks (the 4cyl 4Runner and the Tacoma) from the list. It's applicable to all their other vehicles. Toyota must have collected a formidable amount of data, regarding the superiority of synthetic oil, for them to make an official guideline declaration.

Can we extend this declaration to most light-duty vehicles in general?


Here's the data they collected. Toyota called me after seeing my post doing 10K OCIs for 35 years with M1 oils. Then they contacted XM and had them brew up their oil. Now you see 10K OCIs for Toyota with synthetic that XM makes, and life is good.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Originally Posted By: tig1


Here's the data they collected. Toyota called me after seeing my post doing 10K OCIs for 35 years with M1 oils. Then they contacted XM and had them brew up their oil. Now you see 10K OCIs for Toyota with synthetic that XM makes, and life is good.

Tig,

I do believe you're an undercover operator for Mobil/Toyota. And you buy Ford products to throw us off. But some of us are on to it!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: tig1


Here's the data they collected. Toyota called me after seeing my post doing 10K OCIs for 35 years with M1 oils. Then they contacted XM and had them brew up their oil. Now you see 10K OCIs for Toyota with synthetic that XM makes, and life is good.

Tig,

I do believe you're an undercover operator for Mobil/Toyota. And you buy Ford products to throw us off. But some of us are on to it!


I am going to be more covert in the future. All these spy movies are getting to me.

 

[KrisZ]

Isn't Toyota still recommending 5k OCIs with their synthetic oil in Canada (Canada and Mexico automatically fall into the severe service according to my Mazda manual)?

 

[Smokescreen]

They don't specify, just 8,000 km (5K miles) which is misleading in it itself, as there is no differentiation. Which seems sorely outdated IMO. Nothing suggests severe service intervals so I not sure what is the criteria. There is a part of Canada that is the same latitude as Northern California, so it can't just be a 'northern thing'

I have been doing 10K km (6250K miles) for 150,000 (nearly 100,000 miles) of car ownership and my car yields outstanding fuel economy and doesn't burn a drop between intervals. We have been so beaten down with the shorter intervals I want to go longer but I feel guilty.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: Donald


I would love to see the UOA on the vehicles that were analyzed. How close to 1 are they running the TBN? Is this an engine durability statement or marketing?


I don't think it's durability or marketing. Toyota's merely stating that synthetic has a considerably longer service life than conventional. If they were an oil company the legitimacy might be questionable but as an engine builder I doubt any bias whatsoever.


I do not agree. The less maintenance a vehicle needs compared to other makes the better for your company. You hype it as a competitive advantage. Thus long life coolant, platinum plugs, synthetic ATF & oil, ceramic brake pads, maint. free batteries, no zerk fittings, etc.