Toyota 1NZ-FE 1.5L Flat Tappet oil recommendation

[regal55]

This is one of those old engine designs, it has flat tappets with shims over the lifters. These engines are known to last a half million miles with the older higher ZDDP oils. The procedure to adjust the valves for wear involves buying an expensive set of shims, obviously something I want to avoid.

The manual calls for 5w30 but there is a more recent TSB that says 5w20 is OK. I currently have 50k miles and have used nothing but 5w30 Walmart Synthetic.

Looking for a better oil that will protect the valve train as well as deal with multiple short trips on a could engine.

 

[Falken]

I think you ABSOLUTELY need to add ZDDP to your oil if it has flat tappets.

 

[addyguy]

Defy 5W-30 sounds like a good oil for this application.

GC 0W-30 is another good option. Both have SL additive levels.

 

[supercity]

How is this engine any different to all the other DOHC Toyota engines in the 1990s-2000s? 4AFE, 4SFE etc

 

[Kuato]

You didn't say what your OCI was; but ST Synthetic is a good oil as long as you aren't trying to extend your interval.

With the 4.0 flat tappet Jeep motor in the sig I got very good UOAs with ST 5w30. Just as good or slightly better UOAs were had with VWB and Amsoil.

 

[kr_bitog]

I think this engine like a bit of moly, just stick with PU and PP should be fine. I just find that the SM version of PU is better than recent M1 EP and M1 AFE. However the final test will be the plain M1 5w-30 SN is next week, seems Mobil has reformulated with higher HTHS and VI, so jury will be out there.

 

[63Marauder]

Overhead cam engines are not flat tappet engines. Flat tappet engines are cam in block engines with push rods.

 

[regal55]

Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
I think this engine like a bit of moly, just stick with PU and PP should be fine. I just find that the SM version of PU is better than recent M1 EP and M1 AFE. However the final test will be the plain M1 5w-30 SN is next week, seems Mobil has reformulated with higher HTHS and VI, so jury will be out there.


Thanks.

OCI was 7500 mi with the synthetic Walmart before I bought the FR-S. Now the Yaris is driven very short distances a couple thousand miles per year tops. So I am looking for an oil with max startup protection, low hydroscopic, benign to seals gaskets, good valvetrain protection (high zddp?) I plan to change the oil once per year so cost isn't an issue.

My new car is a Scion FR-S (Subaru FA20 engine), I bought a case of the High Moly GL5 Mazda 0W-20 for the FR-S, maybe 1 Qt high moly 0w-20 Mazda with 3 quarts 5w-30 walmart synthetic or would I have to buy 5w-30 idemitsu oil for compatibility ?

 

[Donald]

What year? Are you really sure its a flat tappet engine?

Amsoil ZROD would be a good oil if so. But the flat tappet engines for the most part were made many years ago, not much recently.

I would use a well suited oil rather than add any additive.

 

[simple_gifts]

The engine is still produced and used in the Yaris; I think any recommendation of running to hills with a high zinc oil is premature.

There are possible downsides to high zinc oils. If you think the shims are expensive, price out a Toyota replacement catalytic converter; it is about $1500.

I initially used M1 5W-30 in mine (SL) a few years of using Redline, but for the last 3 or 4 years have been using OTC Citgo SM/SN 5W-20 and 5W-30.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: 63Marauder
Overhead cam engines are not flat tappet engines. Flat tappet engines are cam in block engines with push rods.
That's a generalization.

 

[regal55]

Well this engine is a legacy engine. Those shins under the tappets are going to wear and we all know buying a shim kit from Toyota will be expensive 5 years from now. The engine was developed in the early 90's and is a workhorse that has carried over for 20 years. Many in 500k+ mi clubs but propably fed SL oils.

Would a high moly 0w-20 like the new mazda oil be a good choice? Should push lubrication up to the head faster than a 5w-30. The engine is back speced for 5w-20. And it isnt revved hard or abused to warrant thinker oil.

The main abuse is short trips.

 

[EvanR]

I have a 1NZFE in my '05 Scion xB. I use M1EP with a 10k OCI. I expect to easily make 200k using this oil and OCI. Past 200k, lots of other things will fall apart before the engine goes.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: regal55
This is one of those old engine designs, it has flat tappets with shims over the lifters. These engines are known to last a half million miles with the older higher ZDDP oils. The procedure to adjust the valves for wear involves buying an expensive set of shims, obviously something I want to avoid.

The manual calls for 5w30 but there is a more recent TSB that says 5w20 is OK. I currently have 50k miles and have used nothing but 5w30 Walmart Synthetic.

Looking for a better oil that will protect the valve train as well as deal with multiple short trips on a could engine.


Believe it or not those "high zddp" oils of yesteryear aren't really that high compared to what we have now. If you did a search for the zddp content of your engines spec oil at the time if manufacture and compare it to today I think you'll find that they really aren't that much lower and oil tech has leaped light years since then.
Today's oils contain all kinds of advanced stuff that wasn't available decades ago and comparing what was specified when your car was built to what's available today is like comparing the flintstone's car to an F1 supercar.
Use whatever grade it was called for in the first place and call er a day. If you are still uneasy after a couple thousand miles add a can of mos2.


Originally Posted By: Falken
I think you ABSOLUTELY need to add ZDDP to your oil if it has flat tappets.


Why?
Zddp is corrosive and competes with the detergents for space. So adding it without compensating for it unbalances the oils add pack. Oil formulators add components to combat this fact. Extra zddp is fine for break in but once the cam is broken in there really isn't any need for it,and long term overdosing will definitely cause problems so unless you know the oils exact formula and passed chemistry at the university level you really have no idea as to what the finished product will end up like.
If a person is going to add anything mos2 or ceratec are the products to reach for. They are formulated to be balanced therefore in use so there isn't any concern about possibly overdosing and pitting engine components.
Zddp is so yesterday. We've got all kinds of space age stuff we can use instead that works better.

 

[wally6934]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Believe it or not those "high zddp" oils of yesteryear aren't really that high compared to what we have now. If you did a search for the zddp content of your engines spec oil at the time if manufacture and compare it to today I think you'll find that they really aren't that much lower and oil tech has leaped light years since then.
Today's oils contain all kinds of advanced stuff that wasn't available decades ago and comparing what was specified when your car was built to what's available today is like comparing the flintstone's car to an F1 supercar.
Use whatever grade it was called for in the first place and call er a day. If you are still uneasy after a couple thousand miles add a can of mos2.



Thats BULL-oni, Don’t you remember when the ZDDP was being reduced in oils that suddenly the new oils could not pass the camshaft wear test any more. So to solve the problem a new dumbed down test was devised.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: wally6934
Thats BULL-oni, Don’t you remember when the ZDDP was being reduced in oils that suddenly the new oils could not pass the camshaft wear test any more.

I suggest you Google some of the VOAs of some of these vintage oils. Changes in testing or phosphorous limits have absolutely nothing to do with the actual ZDDP levels of oils back in the day. Some were high, but plenty were not.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: 63Marauder
Overhead cam engines are not flat tappet engines. Flat tappet engines are cam in block engines with push rods.


That was my impression, too. Regardless, these are not heavy loaded in the first place, so any oil should do. I have exactly the same design in Corolla's 1.8 1ZZ-FE engine and the valve clearances were almost in normal range at near 100,000 miles with regular SL/SM oils.

 

[kschachn]

The 1NZ-FE is not a flat tappet engine, I'm not sure how you got that idea. Regardless, the bucket tappet/shim design is very durable. On my 1MZ-FE after 155,000 miles the clearances were on the low (good) side of the acceptable range. This means it had changed very little since the engine was new. I have never had the need nor the opportunity to check it in my 1NZ-FE.

There's also no reason to quit using the Walmart synthetic if changed out in a reasonable interval.

 

[bigt61]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
The 1NZ-FE is not a flat tappet engine, I'm not sure how you got that idea. Regardless, the bucket tappet/shim design is very durable. On my 1MZ-FE after 155,000 miles the clearances were on the low (good) side of the acceptable range. This means it had changed very little since the engine was new. I have never had the need nor the opportunity to check it in my 1NZ-FE.

There's also no reason to quit using the Walmart synthetic if changed out in a reasonable interval.


+1 - that SuperTech Synthetic is better than you think. My buddy goes 15k miles on it in his old Caravan w no problems - engine is so quiet you can't tell it's running. If you're only doing 2,000 miles a year, I wouldn't change it for 2 years at a minimum, probably 3. Changing oil isn't my idea of fun anymore and these new modern oils are really durable.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
Changing oil isn't my idea of fun anymore


isn't that politically incorrect to state on BITOG?