Time to buy a new GM vehicle!

[Amkeer]

Cousin,

Domestic quality... Are you trying to tell me that the cars GM makes are domestic even though quite a few are built in Canada and Mexico? Is the Tacoma a domestic since it is built in Fremont, California by Union Workers UAW and designed at the Calty Design facility in California? These are built in the USA correct? So your term Japanese does not fit the mold with the Tacoma other than ownership of the FINAL company. Now surely you are not in the same breath saying Chrysler is DOMESTIC if Toyota can't be since Chrysler is owned by a German company.

You need to be careful how you stereotype certain companies based on what you percieve. An example would be the amount of DELPHI parts on my Tacoma.

I consider my Tacoma a domestic. My 4-Runner is an import. I can clearly compare both vehicles. The import is far superior to its 8 year, newer Tacoma. The problems after almost 100,000 miles, 10 years with the import 1, a leaky valve cover gasket. My Tacoma will be seeing its 3rd problem at the dealership. So I have a recall on front ball joint, leak at door seal (fixed) and a leak at power steering hose which will be fixed.

So there you have a real world comparison between a domestic and import. You can think import and import I really do not care one bit.

 

[brianl703]

How is it that GM and Ford are able to build trouble-free vehicles (per JD Power) here in the USA?

 

[brianl703]

By the way, I no longer consider Chysler a domestic automaker, which is why I didn't mention them in the above post. I also didn't look at the JD Power ratings for any Chrysler vehicles for that reason.

 

[Amkeer]

The only trouble free vehicle that Ford or GM builds is one that isn't built yet.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
The only trouble free vehicle that Ford or GM builds is one that isn't built yet.

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Which is true. of all vehicles. They are mechanical and built my people. Some things are going to go wrong. The severity of these problems vary.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
The only trouble free vehicle that Ford or GM builds is one that isn't built yet.

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Yes, and GM is losing $4.4 billion a year

Amkeer, the guy you go to when you don't want a useful answer for anything.

 

[Audi Junkie]

quote:

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quote:
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Originally posted by brianl703:

Then there was the guy I know through a mutual friend. We were discussing changing the shocks and struts in my Mustang (17 years old, 160K miles). He pipes up and says, "I've never had to change the struts on my TOYOTA CAMRY and it's got a lot of miles on it...".
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These comments have always tickled me. Many times when someone says they've never performed a maintenance event it certainly doesn't mean that the vehicle didn't need it.

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When I hear "my (blank) never needed nothing", it's code for "I never looked too hard for anything wrong and will accept the car as-is".

As far as reporterd problems go in surveys, the same principle applies...my older family members have no idea what a good car is and they buy Buicks and Chryslers over and over.
GM's consumer base is greying and will not be around to prop them up in the future. Younger people who grew up with Asian cars will probally continue to buy imports. Let's not forget the massive pension service GM has...more retired employees than actual current ones. I wonder if the Quandt family has that kind of baggage.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
snip

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Why don't you address the lie you told about GM losing $1.1billion a quarter?

I find it difficult to believe that someone who trades stocks wouldn't know what the truth about that situation is.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by FowVay:
While Toyota and Honda Continue to Dominate, the Big Three Domestics
Make Important Strides in Long-Term Quality Improvement

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Here are the rankings you seem to have overlooked:

Problems per 100 vehicles

Toyota 207
American Honda 210
Porsche Cars 240
General Motors 262
BMW of North America 264
Industry Average 269

GM is above average in long-term vehicle reliability, fourth only to Toyota, Honda, and Porsche.

In certain vehicle segments they have one or more of the top-three most problem-free vehicles.

Again I ask, how can GM suck as bad as Amkeer claims they do if this is true?

[ June 05, 2005, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[brianl703]

2003 Toyota Tacoma initial quality ratings:

Mechanical Quality: Does not really stand out
Feature and Accessory Quality: Better than most
Body and Interior Quality: Better than most
Overall Quality: Does not really stand out
Performance: Does not really stand out
Comfort: Does not really stand out
Features and Instrument Panel: Better than most
Style: Does not really stand out
Overall Appeal: Does not really stand out

3 "better than mosts", 6 "does not really stand outs", and 0 "among the bests"

 

[Amkeer]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
The only trouble free vehicle that Ford or GM builds is one that isn't built yet.

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Yes, and GM is losing $4.4 billion a year

Amkeer, the guy you go to when you don't want a useful answer for anything.

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No, I refuse to give answers to the useless and clueless.

 

[cousincletus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
Cousin,

Domestic quality... Are you trying to tell me that the cars GM makes are domestic even though quite a few are built in Canada and Mexico? Is the Tacoma a domestic since it is built in Fremont, California by Union Workers UAW and designed at the Calty Design facility in California? These are built in the USA correct? So your term Japanese does not fit the mold with the Tacoma other than ownership of the FINAL company. Now surely you are not in the same breath saying Chrysler is DOMESTIC if Toyota can't be since Chrysler is owned by a German company.

You need to be careful how you stereotype certain companies based on what you percieve. An example would be the amount of DELPHI parts on my Tacoma.

I consider my Tacoma a domestic. My 4-Runner is an import. I can clearly compare both vehicles. The import is far superior to its 8 year, newer Tacoma. The problems after almost 100,000 miles, 10 years with the import 1, a leaky valve cover gasket. My Tacoma will be seeing its 3rd problem at the dealership. So I have a recall on front ball joint, leak at door seal (fixed) and a leak at power steering hose which will be fixed.

So there you have a real world comparison between a domestic and import. You can think import and import I really do not care one bit.

---

The place of final assembly is not included in the parts origin label. Chrysler is owned mostly by a German company, but the domestic parts content is similar to GM and Ford. An example is the Dodge Ram 1500 pickup (2001) is 77% and the Durango (2003) is 85%. That's a big difference compared to 55% (Tacoma). So as far as keeping the largest number of Americans working, Chrysler will provide more jobs to Americans than Toyota.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
No, I refuse to give answers to the useless and clueless.

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No, you refuse to give answers to people who see through your lies, and your ridiculous generalizations.

Then to top it off you call them useless and clueless. What a surprise: more lies, more ridiculous generalizations.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
As far as reporterd problems go in surveys, the same principle applies...

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If we accept that to be a possible cause of the higher rankings of GM vehicles in JD Power's surveys, we would expect that to be reflected in the rankings for ALL GM vehicles.

That, however, not the case. As one example, the 2001 Cavalier got lower initial and long-term ratings than the Malibu. The 1998 Cavalier got similar ratings to it's 2001 counterpart in both initial and long-term reliability. However, the 1998 Malibu got worse ratings than it's 2001 counterpart.

If anything I would expect that 2001 Cavalier owners would have lowered expectations of their vehicle compared to 2001 Malibu owners; it is, after all, a smaller and cheaper car. This should have resulted in higher rankings for the Cavalier, but that isn't the case.

GM did take steps to improve the quality of the Malibu between 1998 and 2001 and the JD Power data reflects that, not lowered customer expectations.

Could the opposite of this theory (customers have very high expectations and complain about "everything") explain where Audi ranked on JD Power's 2004 Nameplate VDS ranking? They are at 295, behind Plymouth, Subaru, Mazda, Chrysler, Nissan and Ford who are all below the Industry Average value of 269.

Possibly, except for the fact that almost every other automaker's luxury division scored ABOVE average.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Younger buyers complain more.

 

[brianl703]

Can you support that statement with any data, along with the implied assertion that there are enough younger people buying the Cavalier over the Malibu so that it would result in a 3-point difference in the vehicle's rankings from JD Power?

I didn't think so.

EDIT: You also conveniently ignored the improvement in the Malibu's figures from 1998 to 2001. I suppose that's because they don't support your theory.

EDIT2: The Pontiac Grand Am shows an improvement from 2001 to 2004, going from 3 to 5 in Mechanical Quality. The Pontiac Grand Am targets younger buyers than the Malibu. Therefore, if younger buyers complain more, it should be reflected in the data. It is not.

[ June 06, 2005, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[cousincletus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Amkeer:
No lies here. I have no reason to lie. Come up with some more fabrications of your imaginations. Here is some magic powder for you,,, pooooof....

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Nothing I have said is a fabrication. It is all the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth (I learned that from Dragnet).

 

[Audi Junkie]

Some companies advertising leads to greater customer "satisfaction". Look at those Saturn ads, you'd be crazy not to be happy.

 

[bulwnkl]

Please excuse me for interrupting this completely irrelevant argument.

quote:

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Originally posted by DoubleDee:
GM is not going to lose any "extra" money on this promotion. The vehicles are being sold for what the dealership bought them for minus the holdback.

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I believe you'll find that many (most? all?) dealerships have not actually bought the cars on their lots yet when you take them home; the factories are "flooring" them. So, this promotion will cut GM's ongoing expenses by reducing their flooring costs. They may still receive basically the same amount for the vehicles; it depends upon what kind of arrangement they have with their dealers. Normally, pricing is up to the dealer rather than the manufacturer. Does anyone know how this works with this promotion?

 

[DoubleDee]

Yes the manufacturer floorplans the cost, which is the dealer invoice amount. Once every quarter GM deposits the total of the holdback of all cars sold in that quarter into the dealership account. Typically gm will have a 60 or 90 day floorplan program where the dealer will not have to pay interest on a vehicle for that amount of time. After that time expires the pay interest on the invoice amount. The GM employee pricing program is where the price is the invoice amount minus the holdback of that vehicle(with holdback being somewhere in the 3% of net net). So, the more expensive the vehicle, the higher the holdback, the higher the discount. On a Cobalt expect anywhere from $500 to $700 below invoive. A Silverado can be $700 to $1000 and so on. The dealer does not dictate price on this program. It is set and if they sell at any different price, when they are audited by GM, they will be fined.The the dealer dictates price on any normal sale and that usually is invoice plus whatever amount they can close the buyer at.