Time to buy a new GM vehicle!

[DJ]

VaderSS speaks of the 94-96 RWD V8 LT1 Impala SS. That car still gets good press to this day. Massive torque in a massive car. I actually have a Car and Driver episode on DVD where the guy spends like 5 minutes talking about how it is a purely "male" car.
He and I frequent the same other forums and own like vehicles(I have a Caprice and a Roadmaster wagon very much the same cars).
We all agree that the new Impalas are not worthy of the name they are nice cars though.

 

[jtantare]

I give Toyota 3 years before they surpass GM in total sales. Toyota is already miles ahead in profitability.

 

[BatmanLS1]

Does anyone have an idea what the pricing would be on a no extras, Silverado 1500 4X4, extended cab.

Also, what kind of financing is bundled with this employee pricing?

 

[Amkeer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cousincletus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amkeer:
Who refuses to buy American?

---

The answer to that is you. Toyota is a foreign owned company and the US/Canadian parts content on your Taco is 55%. The parts content on your 4-Runner is 5%. Parts content on my Cavalier is 86%. GM is an American owned company. Understand now?

---

I refuse to buy American! Right! Last time I checked I am American manufacturer that builds products that are made in the USA. The parts content in my products are about 60% US made the others would be Canada, Germany and sometimes Asian or South American. So I use predominently use US materials and the fabrication is here. So every day 60% of my purchases go to American manufacturers without regards to cost. So the people that buy my products are they truly buying American manufactured even though 40% of the materials used are of not from the USA brand? I would think so! I buy the highest quality components available to integrate within my peices regardless of who manufactures it. If your product they I buy from you has a "cheapness" or a "high failure rate" you will not get my business, PERIOD! I strive for the highest quality available so no callbacks are required.

Who is the Corporation for Toyota USA or GM? Answer that for me now. Now where is that corporation registered? Are they both USA registered companies? So who really owns a company like GM that is losing 1.1 billion a quarter. Would it be a foriegn investor? So if its a foriegn investor that owns a majority is it still considered an American company?

Where do you come up with a parts content of 55% for the Tacoma?

The Tacoma is made in the USA by UAW workers. What makes you think your Cavalier is more "domestic" than it, after you research OWNERSHIP and CORPORATE identities and how this involves this argument.

So I think you need to do a little more research on corporate identities before you bash me! Are any of these companies American owned or are they all just hybrids of foriegn investments? Rediculous!!!!!

 

[Amkeer]

(Dont waste your time argueing with Amkeer, he is a Toyota schill through and through, just look at all his posts. Any time there is a recall for a Domestic, he chimes in like clockwork. If someone wants an opinion on a domestic car he chimes in and tells them it is junk even though he doesnt own one, and tells them to buy a Toyota.

VNT)

This is total garbage! One of my recent posts was on the Toyota Recall and how it effects me. Why don't you look it up yourself before you go bashing me!

I don't care who makes the vehicle GM, Ford, Chrysler/MB, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc..If they make a product with a higher failure rate they will not get my business. If Toyota goes down and failure rates increase I will purchase whatever brand name will give me the better rating. I am not a blind, brand loyalist! I buy what will give me the best chance of success over the term of ownership regardless of price. I use this rule in all purchases that I make whether its real estate, stocks, tools, paint, tires, whatever. This rule has served me well the past 38 years.

I use a vehicle for transportation not glorification. I am not into glorifying someone elses handywork especially on a mass produced basis such as automotive.

 

[The Critic]

I have to add my $0.02 here.

I have a 1996 Saturn SL2 and a 1992 Toyota Previa.

The Saturn is newer than the Toyo and looks like it was put together by some high school students for an extra credit assignment.

It is total garbage, and tons of squeaks and rattles, but yet, it has never broken down.

So my take??? I expected something better. I expected that an el-cheapo car in 1996 would be at least somewhat better than a van from 1992. But I was disappointed.

Next car: Toyo

Michael

 

[brianl703]

It's funny that someone brings up Saturn. For a long time, Saturn had a "halo" around them that even oil-eating 1.9L engines didn't seem to faze.

On a related note, look at the reaction that Saturn fans had when GM announced that they'd be putting the GM logo in a slightly more visible location on the vehicle (it likely was always on components under the hood..if even a Toyota has GM logos on components under the hood..than a Saturn surely does).

"GM IS RUINING SATURN!". Why, by making it obvious to even those who live under a rock that the company is a division of GM?

 

[cousincletus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amkeer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cousincletus:

Originally posted by Amkeer:
Who refuses to buy American?

---

The answer to that is you. Toyota is a foreign owned company and the US/Canadian parts content on your Taco is 55%. The parts content on your 4-Runner is 5%. Parts content on my Cavalier is 86%. GM is an American owned company. Understand now?

---

I refuse to buy American! Right! Last time I checked I am American manufacturer that builds products that are made in the USA. The parts content in my products are about 60% US made the others would be Canada, Germany and sometimes Asian or South American. So I use predominently use US materials and the fabrication is here. So every day 60% of my purchases go to American manufacturers without regards to cost. So the people that buy my products are they truly buying American manufactured even though 40% of the materials used are of not from the USA brand? I would think so! I buy the highest quality components available to integrate within my peices regardless of who manufactures it. If your product they I buy from you has a "cheapness" or a "high failure rate" you will not get my business, PERIOD! I strive for the highest quality available so no callbacks are required.

Who is the Corporation for Toyota USA or GM? Answer that for me now. Now where is that corporation registered? Are they both USA registered companies? So who really owns a company like GM that is losing 1.1 billion a quarter. Would it be a foriegn investor? So if its a foriegn investor that owns a majority is it still considered an American company?

Where do you come up with a parts content of 55% for the Tacoma?

The Tacoma is made in the USA by UAW workers. What makes you think your Cavalier is more "domestic" than it, after you research OWNERSHIP and CORPORATE identities and how this involves this argument.

So I think you need to do a little more research on corporate identities before you bash me! Are any of these companies American owned or are they all just hybrids of foriegn investments? Rediculous!!!!! [/QOTE]
You are the one who never misses a chance to bash any American auto company or any positive comment about an American auto company. I stated the facts that are listed on the window sticker of the Toyota Tacoma, 4-Runner and 2002 Chevy Cavalier. I am just telling the facts the way they are. You are just slow understanding.

 

[Amkeer]

Link me with your numbers on the content of US products in the Tacoma.

You are telling the "facts"????? Right! If you were correct in your assertions GM would not be losing 1.1 billion every quarter. Answer to me how a company that you say builds "fine automobiles" could be losing almost 4.3 billion a year.

Better yet why don't you read through these forums and other forums how GM owners are thoroughly fed up with GM.

I am not bashing GM they bash themselves!

Believe me I am not slow at understanding. Maybe you need to look at yourself and really open your eyes to what is REALLY happening and remove the blinders.

Like I said I have nothing to be embarrassed about since I don't build them.

 

[brianl703]

Has GM announced the numbers for next quarter? Or are you psychic, Amkeer?

It's too bad this board wasn't around in 1992, when GM posted a $21 billion loss in the first quarter..making their current loss the second-worst.

EDIT: It should be mentioned that GM's loss includes what they paid to Fiat to divest GM's stake in Fiat's "troubled auto unit".

[ June 05, 2005, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[brianl703]

If GM sucks so bad then how:

JD Power and Associates 2004 Vehicle Dependability Survey (VDS)

Top Three Vehicles Per Segment

Entry Midsize
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Malibu
Nissan Altima
Pontiac Grand Am

Premium Midsize:
Higest Ranked: Toyota Avalon
Buick Century
Buick Regal

Compact Pickup:
Highest Ranked: Ford Ranger
Chevrolet S-10 Pickup
GMC Sonoma

(notice that the Toyota Tacoma is missing).

The Vehicle Dependability Study measures problem symptoms of 3-year-old vehicles, primarily in categories representing malfunctions; noise, vibration and harshness; driveability; dependability; and safety. The VDS is one of three J.D. Power and Associates quality metrics, along with the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which measures quality after 90 days of ownership, and the Automotive, Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study, which measures customer perceptions on the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004055

[ June 05, 2005, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[FowVay]

According to the link that you attached, here is the opening statement:

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Toyota Motor Sales Captures Top Corporate Ranking in Vehicle Dependability


While Toyota and Honda Continue to Dominate, the Big Three Domestics
Make Important Strides in Long-Term Quality Improvement

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 29, 2004


WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.—With seven models topping their vehicle segments and Lexus ranking highest among nameplates, Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. captures the top corporate ranking in the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.

 

[Amkeer]

Also missing is value retention. Which in laymans terms is equal to a less cash hit after purchase. This is also equal to the masses perception of the likelyhood of a problem after the vehicle starts to age.

http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/ratings/prv/index.jsp?make=Toyota&model=Tacoma

Again this is from the link you provided. Thank you.

Now also keep in mind that the majority of us that drive a Honda or Toyota, etc., were GM and Ford loyalists.

 

[DoubleDee]

GM is not going to lose any "extra" money on this promotion. The vehicles are being sold for what the dealership bought them for minus the holdback. (The 0% finance deals cost because they must pay GMAC for the lost finace charges. So GM will put more cars on the road. The dealerships are the ones that will lose some substantial sales income. They will get it back in the back end such as service, parts, and body shop, if the customer returns there.
Gm's main problem(they have many) is they have too many product lines and high labor costs to go along with it. Consolidation is coming

 

[obbop]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Wan:
I have to add my $0.02 here.

I have a 1996 Saturn SL2 and a 1992 Toyota Previa.

The Saturn is newer than the Toyo and looks like it was put together by some high school students for an extra credit assignment.

It is total garbage, and tons of squeaks and rattles, but yet, it has never broken down.

Not to belittle the Previa, a fine automobubble, but, the shock to the unknowing consumers out there in motoring land when they have to pay for a SADS shaft (most folks don't have the ability to do the job themselves) can make that Toyota desireability a wee less than before. Then, with so many Previa owners having constant trouble keeping the A/C running cold and confronting the high price of parts..... well.... admittedly one can confront high prices with any make/model but for those sold upon the proverbial Toyota reliability and low ownership costs reality can be a brutal slap on the face.

I reveled in my 1978 Toyota pick-em-up... extremely reliable and cheap to keep. Sadly, the move to the "rust belt" showed, despite my best attempts, those vehicles were not designed to survive in this part of the USA. If I had remained in California that pick-up would likely be still looking fine.

My '91 Previa was a nifty keen conveyance. Reliable, comfortable, and, on a lengthy trip on flat land at 70 mph I got 28 mpg!!!! But, the aforementioned problems did nullify a bit the delight in that van. The brakes were another trouble-prone area for many owners as shown by a Previa-only message board frequented by a plethora of posters. Yes, the Previa is a darn good vehicle but they are prone to troubles as many vehicles are. Sure, more reliable than that cruddy little Chevy Astro van but for those believing in the rhetoric of the wonders of all that is Toyota reality can be a shock.

I used to tout Toyota as the best make across-the-board but, over the years, have decided to look at particular models and particular years, no matter what the make, when deciding if a vehicle is above average in reliability.

That's my 7-cents-worth of unadulterated opinion and I'm sticking to it. Unless I change my mind....for a new mind model.

Yep.

Michael

---

 

[obbop]

Whoops, my scrawling got intermixed with the partial quote. My rambling lies between:

"It is total garbage, and tons of squeaks and rattles, but yet, it has never broken down."

and

"Michael"

 

[OMCWankel]

Most of the older ones of us that are on this forum were GM or Ford loyalists at one time, myself included. I remember the first Toyota and Datsuns I saw and drove a long time ago - very poor quality. What changed was a focus on quality and quality engineering at Honda and Toyota. Now they are better, and all the others are playing catch-up.

I think it is a mistake to make blanket assertions. There are bad vehicles made by every auto company, and some very good ones.

An example that I have experience with is the Mazda Miata. A very well engineeried auto, maybe even over-engineered if driven gently. I would not say the same for the 6, the 626, and the Millenium, all of which have had problems.

Ford and GM are finally focusing on quality, as they should. I do not think they are focusing enough on engineered quality. You need both quality engineered into the product, and quality in the line build, to be the best. This statement applies to any company engaged in manufacturing a product. A company will get in trouble when they start to make quality tradeoffs in the attempt to control cost, or lower cost.

 

[brianl703]

I have not found build quality issues to be a problem with domestic vehicles. Most of the issues are engineering problems, and often quite easy ones to re-engineer correctly, at that.

 

[cousincletus]

One thing I dislike about Japanese cars is that they aren't easy to work on. Chrysler then GM are the easiest ones to work on that I have dealt with (generally speaking). Amkeer, the info I posted cane from the actual parts origin window sticker that is required for all new cars and light trucks. Don't have a link but it's easy enough to check yourself next time you're getting parts or whatever at the dealer. I'm not here to fight a war, just give my own opinions of domestic quality. I did have a bad Ford Ranger in 1987 (bought new) and since I have not bought another Ford but I'm having very good luck wih GM and Chrysler products. The 2002 Cavalier went to the shop one time under warranty because the passenger sunvisor was starting to come apart. It looked like they ran out of glue to glue it together at the factory. Other than that absolutely no problems. You just can't get any better than that. The reason why I bought a Cavalier to begin with was because they seem to run forever, parts are dirt cheap and every parts store carries parts for GM. I also want to see as many Americans as possible working so I look for a car with a high domestic (US/Canadian)parts content.

 

[VaderSS]

Yup, I was talking about this puppy;

On the "hard to work on."

It's all relative and heavily dependent on engine and model.

One of the easiest car I've ever had to work on was the Olds Cierra 3.3 V6. Engine bay was set up with a diesel in mind...

One of the hardest was a Dodge Dynasty or as I call it, "die-nasty," again, with a 3.3 V6.

One of the biggest pains I've ever dealt with is the Impala, and my Ford (Mazda) Festiva is a cinch.

Saw quite a few newer cars come through while I worked at the oil change place, and the FWD Chryslers V6s were all b!tches...

I've seen Japanese cars that are easy and others that were he!!.