Time to buy a new GM vehicle!
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I would buy a GM product if I found one that was attractive for me. The fact is the current lineup(besides the vette) is not my cup of tea.
I admit that 2 of my wifes and my vehicles are for recreational use and entertainment while the third is our primary driver. That being said I have to like a vehicle alot to buy it and it is more than just an appliance to me. Otherwise I would have jumped on the cheap cavalier deals.
I only like to see GM struggle becasue perhaps it will cause them to change their direction. The pontiac Solstice is a nice design for example, but is it a good car or a shell like the H2? Time will tell if they can change their ways. Competitiion is a good thing and without the American cars marques we are in for a load of price hikes from the survivors of any failure of a major.
I admit that 2 of my wifes and my vehicles are for recreational use and entertainment while the third is our primary driver. That being said I have to like a vehicle alot to buy it and it is more than just an appliance to me. Otherwise I would have jumped on the cheap cavalier deals.
I only like to see GM struggle becasue perhaps it will cause them to change their direction. The pontiac Solstice is a nice design for example, but is it a good car or a shell like the H2? Time will tell if they can change their ways. Competitiion is a good thing and without the American cars marques we are in for a load of price hikes from the survivors of any failure of a major.
I think it's less about actual reliability these days than it is "trendyness" and percieved reliability. I'm not one to g.a.s. what other people think of what I drive. A friend of mine who isn't quite that way drives a 2002 Pontiac Grand Am and he told me that people ask him "Why do you drive that? Why don't you get a [insert name of popular foreign car here], it's more reliable than that thing. Hasn't it been a lot of trouble for you?" etc.
Then there was the guy I know through a mutual friend. We were discussing changing the shocks and struts in my Mustang (17 years old, 160K miles). He pipes up and says, "I've never had to change the struts on my TOYOTA CAMRY and it's got a lot of miles on it...".
I suppose if I drove my Mustang like it was a TOYOTA CAMRY I wouldn't have bothered to replace the struts on it, either.
By the way, the mutual friend has a 1999 Toyota Sienna and he changed the shocks and struts at 130K and noticed a substantial improvement in handling.
Then there was the guy I know through a mutual friend. We were discussing changing the shocks and struts in my Mustang (17 years old, 160K miles). He pipes up and says, "I've never had to change the struts on my TOYOTA CAMRY and it's got a lot of miles on it...".
I suppose if I drove my Mustang like it was a TOYOTA CAMRY I wouldn't have bothered to replace the struts on it, either.
By the way, the mutual friend has a 1999 Toyota Sienna and he changed the shocks and struts at 130K and noticed a substantial improvement in handling.
This should help them a lot. I couldn't believe what they were charging for Yukons and Lumina cars 8 years ago. They were good enough cars but the prices were that of luxury cars! Even if you weren't totally vain you'd go out and buy a Volvo, Saab, Audi, etc... instead because it would stand out more than a GM. That, and they were no longer too far out of reach to consider.
Steve
Steve
To those of use with decades of experience with both Japanese and American designed cars, it's not a perception or trendiness. If I was looking for perception or trendiness I would be driving a Humm job or a Tupperware clad Pontiac.
While you're driving your Fords, don't forget to thank those of us who bought foreign and caused Dee-troit to -attempt- to meet the competition in quality and reliability.
For the record, two of my present vehicles are GM and one a Honda (Acura). Neither the Corvette or GMC hold a candle to the Acura for quality or reliability. But none of them are really bad.
I have the GMC because ot was pity purchase to help out an American company and it's not a bad truck. The Corvette because it's crude and powerful, kinda like me.
As I edge into my mid 60s, no more pity purchases, life's too short. The Corvette may be replaced by a Porsche in the not to distant future. The GMC will continue to be a piece of utilitarian equipment until it gets to be too much of a maintenance PITA. If I'm still around then, it will most likely be replaced by a Japanese truck.
GM can lose a few bucks on a car and then try to make up for it in the future with repairs and selling authorized GM parts. An alternator that sells for $120 at Autozone will sell for $400 at the dealership and the 97% of the public that goes to a dealership because they dont know how to change an altenator will find the dealer unwilling to install an autozone part.
GM also has a financing division and will try to get you with add on accessories. They need to keep dealers happy and selling cars or the dealerships will bolt to other product lines. They need to do bulk business with suppliers so they can keep their part costs low. Furthermore, employees start looking for other jobs if they get temporarily furloughed. You have issues with owner loyalty and you cant build on loyalty if you arent selling cars.
There are a lot of issues at stake. Even if GM loses $1000 per car they arent really losing $1000 per car. They might lose $1000 anyway by not selling a car they could have sold. At least with a sold car they can try and recoup some of the losses at a later date with high dollar parts and customer accessories and other add-ons.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
GM also has a financing division and will try to get you with add on accessories. They need to keep dealers happy and selling cars or the dealerships will bolt to other product lines. They need to do bulk business with suppliers so they can keep their part costs low. Furthermore, employees start looking for other jobs if they get temporarily furloughed. You have issues with owner loyalty and you cant build on loyalty if you arent selling cars.
There are a lot of issues at stake. Even if GM loses $1000 per car they arent really losing $1000 per car. They might lose $1000 anyway by not selling a car they could have sold. At least with a sold car they can try and recoup some of the losses at a later date with high dollar parts and customer accessories and other add-ons.
Happy Motoring All,
Bugshu
The answer to that is you. Toyota is a foreign owned company and the US/Canadian parts content on your Taco is 55%. The parts content on your 4-Runner is 5%. Parts content on my Cavalier is 86%. GM is an American owned company. Understand now?quote:
Originally posted by Amkeer:
Who refuses to buy American?
I hope so! I have $1,839.45 in GM earnings that I plan to use in the next six months or so. I've read on the saturn board that GM is slapping GM badges on all their vehicles (Saturn, Saab) so maybe they will increase their saturn sales by not selling for MSRP anymore. They do talk about moving volume vehicles. Saturn Vue would be nice to grab
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if saturn takes my gm card earnings, I may have to jump on this.
GM's New Employee Discount for Everyone Promotion
As with other manufacturer programs, CarsDirect shoppers can benefit from GM's new Employee Discount for Everyone promotion. Under this new program, everyone in the country can take advantage of discounts usually reserved for GM employees and their friends & family when they buy a 2005 Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab or Saturn. Some restrictions apply*, and credit applicants are subject to approval.
And in many cases, thanks to CarsDirect's buying power, we can beat the Employee Discount for Everyone price offered by GM.
Select your new GM Model*:
To learn more about GM's promotion and see if we offer an even lower price, you can call CarsDirect at 1-800-431-2500 or have a CarsDirect Vehicle Specialist contact you by selecting the model you want on the site and submitting your contact information. Just be sure to hurry. The promotion ends on July 5th.
if saturn takes my gm card earnings, I may have to jump on this.
Dont waste your time argueing with Amkeer, he is a Toyota schill through and through, just look at all his posts. Any time there is a recall for a Domestic, he chimes in like clockwork. If someone wants an opinion on a domestic car he chimes in and tells them it is junk even though he doesnt own one, and tells them to buy a Toyota.quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus:
The answer to that is you. Toyota is a foreign owned company and the US/Canadian parts content on your Taco is 55%. The parts content on your 4-Runner is 5%. Parts content on my Cavalier is 86%. GM is an American owned company. Understand now?quote:
Originally posted by Amkeer:
Who refuses to buy American?
VNT
quote:
Originally posted by jsharp:
Two guys decide they want to go into business selling watermelons.
They setup a produce stand, purchase a truck and drive out to a farm and buy a whole truckload of watermelons for $1 each.
They price the watermelons at $.75 each and every day for a week they sell out completely.
At the end of the week they count their money and notice they've lost thousands of dollars.
The "thinking" one of the two thinks about it for a long time and suddenly realizes what he's sure is the problem.
He says to the other - " I know what we need! We just need a bigger truck!!"
This new incentive program for GM should be just the truck they need...
Brilliant, jsharp, just brilliant
Bear in mind that one of them was built in 1988.
Seems to me that's just a little bit before
"those of us who bought foreign and caused Dee-troit to -attempt- to meet the competition in quality and reliability" had any effect.
EDIT: I say that because it is widely acknowledged here and elsewhere that domestics did build junk in the 1980s.
I had a 1986 Dodge Omni which I thought was pretty junky, but seeing as I bought it used when it was 10 years old, I have no idea how much of the junkyness is Chrysler's fault or the previous owner's fault.
[ June 03, 2005, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]
In the case of struts, it's easy to see how someone might never notice the gradual deterioration in handling as they wear out. Or, if they do, not realize that it's because the struts are worn out. ("It's an old car, isn't it supposed to handle like this?")
I think the whole "import vs domestic" is very cloudy now. Many "imports" have more domestic content than the "domestics." Lots of us have friends are relatives working or living in communities that benefit from an "import" plant.
"Buy American." Well, what exactly does that mean, when an American company can by parts made in Mexico or Korea, put them together, then label it "Made in America?" At the same time, that "import" some are bashing may have a domestic content of 97%, while that "domestic" might have a content of 0%.
The only products GM has come out with in the past few years, that I like, are either so far out of my price range as to be unattainable for years, or the GTO, which is an Aussie import.
GM's biggest problem, to me, is inertia. They see the trends, and take so long to act on them, that the trend is gone before they can capitalize on it. There was also, for a long time, no sense of brand identity, and while it is now coming back, the only cosistantly positive brand identitys, are Saturn, which is a maverick anyway, and Caddilac, which I might be able to afford in 10 years, used... The rest, with the exception of the GTO and Vette, are just to boring. Even the oddballs are boring, once you get past the oddness.
The other problem is how great ideas get quashed at GM. The recent aborting of the new RWD platforms is classic. GM is absolutely superb at killing great ideas. Either before they are born, if the idea is truly great, or as soon as it's "fixed" if it's been released already.
"Buy American." Well, what exactly does that mean, when an American company can by parts made in Mexico or Korea, put them together, then label it "Made in America?" At the same time, that "import" some are bashing may have a domestic content of 97%, while that "domestic" might have a content of 0%.
The only products GM has come out with in the past few years, that I like, are either so far out of my price range as to be unattainable for years, or the GTO, which is an Aussie import.
GM's biggest problem, to me, is inertia. They see the trends, and take so long to act on them, that the trend is gone before they can capitalize on it. There was also, for a long time, no sense of brand identity, and while it is now coming back, the only cosistantly positive brand identitys, are Saturn, which is a maverick anyway, and Caddilac, which I might be able to afford in 10 years, used... The rest, with the exception of the GTO and Vette, are just to boring. Even the oddballs are boring, once you get past the oddness.
The other problem is how great ideas get quashed at GM. The recent aborting of the new RWD platforms is classic. GM is absolutely superb at killing great ideas. Either before they are born, if the idea is truly great, or as soon as it's "fixed" if it's been released already.
Boring is good. Last time GM tried to make something exciting, the result was the Aztek.
Man, what the heck happened with that one!
But before that, there was the Impala SS...
check out the latest Motor Trend for the "Impala SS" is back!!!(basicly a Pontiac Grand Prix with the 5.3 V8 nose heavy front driver)
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