The Tesla Model 3 Was The Best-Selling Luxury Car In America Last YearÂ
- Thread starter wemay
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by Vikas
Why do people hate Acura ILX? Did they pay list price for it? If you were a smart shopper, you would have paid close to Civic equivalent price for it and then you would be very happy with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Scoring low on Rmay635703's Consumer Reports chart above: Lexis IS ???!!! Great car! ...& Cadillac ATS is a sweet performing vehicle too. Nissan Pathfinder is good. The rest of them I see why they might not be well liked by owners. As in, da Toyota CH-R is too much like the Nissan Joke...er... I mean "Juke", excuse me....
Back to the Model 3 though: Its great, true, but I paid 1/3 as much for a FUN electric car 3 years ago: '16 Focus EV, with its 49%/51% F/R weight distribution, 225 tires, and VW GTI-like suspension is a poor-man's Tesla. .. Others can pay $50k for a Model 3. I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
Why do people hate Acura ILX? Did they pay list price for it? If you were a smart shopper, you would have paid close to Civic equivalent price for it and then you would be very happy with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Scoring low on Rmay635703's Consumer Reports chart above: Lexis IS ???!!! Great car! ...& Cadillac ATS is a sweet performing vehicle too. Nissan Pathfinder is good. The rest of them I see why they might not be well liked by owners. As in, da Toyota CH-R is too much like the Nissan Joke...er... I mean "Juke", excuse me....
Back to the Model 3 though: Its great, true, but I paid 1/3 as much for a FUN electric car 3 years ago: '16 Focus EV, with its 49%/51% F/R weight distribution, 225 tires, and VW GTI-like suspension is a poor-man's Tesla. .. Others can pay $50k for a Model 3. I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[ I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
I see starting MSRP on Focus EV at $29K. Is Ford discounting them so much?
[ I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
I see starting MSRP on Focus EV at $29K. Is Ford discounting them so much?
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The $35K car makes up half of the 400K reservations....Will there ever really be one without rebates? Dunno, not so far.
Fed tax credits ramp down in 2019, cut in half now, then that is cut in half again this summer, then zero.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[ I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
I see starting MSRP on Focus EV at $29K. Is Ford discounting them so much?
That was 3 years ago, some Ford discounts, Fed tax credits, out the door net cost back then. They stopped making them a year ago, yet there are some low-mile barely used ones out there for $10k. Or pay $40k-$60k for a new Model3, your choice.
The $35K car makes up half of the 400K reservations....Will there ever really be one without rebates? Dunno, not so far.
Fed tax credits ramp down in 2019, cut in half now, then that is cut in half again this summer, then zero.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[ I'll take my new car at $15k any day of the week.
I see starting MSRP on Focus EV at $29K. Is Ford discounting them so much?
That was 3 years ago, some Ford discounts, Fed tax credits, out the door net cost back then. They stopped making them a year ago, yet there are some low-mile barely used ones out there for $10k. Or pay $40k-$60k for a new Model3, your choice.
Originally Posted by addyguy
The Model 3 was SUPPOSED to be the 'affordable' EV for the masses - it wasn't supposed to be a luxury car!
They went on about how it was supposed to be the 'economy' EV, priced at $35k....nice little switcharoo Musk and team did there, realizing they couldn't make it for that, so it becomes a 'luxury' car!
Un-freaking believable. I hope that Charlatan fails.
Tesla is marketing themselves as a luxury brand and it's a status symbol in the Bay Area. Nissan hit their targets with the Leaf but Nissan has been mediocre the last few years. Years ago, the Prius was a status symbol in the Bay Area, now if you drive a Prius, 99% of the time, you're an Uber driver. And even Uber/Lyft drivers are staying away from the Prius, the Sonata and Altima are the new rideshare darlings - easier to buy with shoddy credit and no ticking time bomb(hybrid battery). And before that, the BMW X5/Mercedes ML/Lexus RX were the status symbol in Marin/Walnut Creek/Pleasanton.
My parents had a deposit on one but they didn't want to wait(but my mom would have had a heart attack for a $50K car with the things they wanted). I think they really want the 3 ellipses or a circle-L instead. Toyota is as conservative as pre-2010s GM though - but they really want to see solid-state batteries hit economies of scale first.
The Model 3 was SUPPOSED to be the 'affordable' EV for the masses - it wasn't supposed to be a luxury car!
They went on about how it was supposed to be the 'economy' EV, priced at $35k....nice little switcharoo Musk and team did there, realizing they couldn't make it for that, so it becomes a 'luxury' car!
Un-freaking believable. I hope that Charlatan fails.
Tesla is marketing themselves as a luxury brand and it's a status symbol in the Bay Area. Nissan hit their targets with the Leaf but Nissan has been mediocre the last few years. Years ago, the Prius was a status symbol in the Bay Area, now if you drive a Prius, 99% of the time, you're an Uber driver. And even Uber/Lyft drivers are staying away from the Prius, the Sonata and Altima are the new rideshare darlings - easier to buy with shoddy credit and no ticking time bomb(hybrid battery). And before that, the BMW X5/Mercedes ML/Lexus RX were the status symbol in Marin/Walnut Creek/Pleasanton.
My parents had a deposit on one but they didn't want to wait(but my mom would have had a heart attack for a $50K car with the things they wanted). I think they really want the 3 ellipses or a circle-L instead. Toyota is as conservative as pre-2010s GM though - but they really want to see solid-state batteries hit economies of scale first.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Vikas
Why do people hate Acura ILX? Did they pay list price for it? If you were a smart shopper, you would have paid close to Civic equivalent price for it and then you would be very happy with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Scoring low on Rmay635703's Consumer Reports chart above: Lexis IS ???!!! Great car! ...& Cadillac ATS is a sweet performing vehicle too. Nissan Pathfinder is good. The rest of them I see why they might not be well liked by owners. As in, da Toyota CH-R is too much like the Nissan Joke...er... I mean "Juke", excuse me....
CR looks at how well you can live with that car everyday as a factor. To me, a modern Nissan is cruelty, it makes even 1990s Hyundais and GM's Fisher-Price interiors seem luxurious. The IS and ATS are nice but too cramped. Acura hasn't really gotten their mojo back since the original Legend/NSX and the 2004-2008 TL. The ILX is too [censored] close to a fully-loaded Civic EX-L/Touring, just like the Lexus HS250h was basically a Lexus Corolla with a Prius drivetrain.
Years ago, CR said the original Lexus LS400 was the car to beat when it came to their scoring. That was back in the 1990s and they also said it made a great used car in both 400/430 form. In 2012 or 2014, the Model S beat the LS as the car to beat.
Originally Posted by Vikas
Why do people hate Acura ILX? Did they pay list price for it? If you were a smart shopper, you would have paid close to Civic equivalent price for it and then you would be very happy with it.
I was thinking the same thing. Scoring low on Rmay635703's Consumer Reports chart above: Lexis IS ???!!! Great car! ...& Cadillac ATS is a sweet performing vehicle too. Nissan Pathfinder is good. The rest of them I see why they might not be well liked by owners. As in, da Toyota CH-R is too much like the Nissan Joke...er... I mean "Juke", excuse me....
CR looks at how well you can live with that car everyday as a factor. To me, a modern Nissan is cruelty, it makes even 1990s Hyundais and GM's Fisher-Price interiors seem luxurious. The IS and ATS are nice but too cramped. Acura hasn't really gotten their mojo back since the original Legend/NSX and the 2004-2008 TL. The ILX is too [censored] close to a fully-loaded Civic EX-L/Touring, just like the Lexus HS250h was basically a Lexus Corolla with a Prius drivetrain.
Years ago, CR said the original Lexus LS400 was the car to beat when it came to their scoring. That was back in the 1990s and they also said it made a great used car in both 400/430 form. In 2012 or 2014, the Model S beat the LS as the car to beat.
Last edited:
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
There's a new BMW 5 series in our company parking lot with a small lid on both the front fender and rear fender … well, that is a good sized and handsome looking luxury car …
Model 3 ramp to 8,000 cars per week?
Model 3 Production
Model 3 Production
Well, those who wanted the $35K Model 3, now can have them. But I am warning you, don't do it if you suffer from severe winter climate.
Obviously, the Tesla shorts will come up something else to complain about now that Elon has successfully completed this hurdle. Most of them are so transparent in their hatred towards Tesla that no logical explanation can be made.
Obviously, the Tesla shorts will come up something else to complain about now that Elon has successfully completed this hurdle. Most of them are so transparent in their hatred towards Tesla that no logical explanation can be made.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Vikas
Well, those who wanted the $35K Model 3, now can have them. But I am warning you, don't do it if you suffer from severe winter climate.
Obviously, the Tesla shorts will come up something else to complain about now that Elon has successfully completed this hurdle. Most of them are so transparent in their hatred towards Tesla that no logical explanation can be made.
I think the Tesla is an amazing stride towards the future, but it is by no means the "everyman's car" yet. Most of the electric car owners I know bought them to save on fuel costs, and two of them can charge for free outside their place of work. What happens when the government incentives and free charging goes away? Electricity isn't free by any means. I wonder how many Tesla owners would no longer want them if they paid roughly the same amount to charge their car that they do for fuel? The government won't miss out on potential tax income for very long.
Well, those who wanted the $35K Model 3, now can have them. But I am warning you, don't do it if you suffer from severe winter climate.
Obviously, the Tesla shorts will come up something else to complain about now that Elon has successfully completed this hurdle. Most of them are so transparent in their hatred towards Tesla that no logical explanation can be made.
I think the Tesla is an amazing stride towards the future, but it is by no means the "everyman's car" yet. Most of the electric car owners I know bought them to save on fuel costs, and two of them can charge for free outside their place of work. What happens when the government incentives and free charging goes away? Electricity isn't free by any means. I wonder how many Tesla owners would no longer want them if they paid roughly the same amount to charge their car that they do for fuel? The government won't miss out on potential tax income for very long.
I've always considered the Mazda 6 to be the gasoline version of the Tesla 3. It's encouraging that the 3 is now starts at $35 K but a Mazda 6 starts at $ 22 K.
Once the Teslacian's pre-orders get filled, it will be crickets.
Once the Teslacian's pre-orders get filled, it will be crickets.
As an owner, I kinda watch the Model 3 posts on Facebook. Lotsa owners are complaining that all the Model 3 variants are cheaper now. Yup.
As to the Tesla bashers, well here's a few things to ponder:
There will be double to triple charging stations in the next few years.
Solar is getting cheaper; mine is being installed today.
The European and Asian markets are just starting to open; Tesla will sell tons of cars.
We bought ours because of the technology; going green and support of Elon's efforts.
I agree it is not everyman's car; heck if you wanna drive economically we could bought 3 Civics for the cost of the Model 3.
Another reason it is not for everyone is, it is a technology driven car. If you are not open to change; the Model 3 is not for you.
The car is simply amazing; there is nothing else like it.
If you think that's a silly statement, you haven't checked out or driven one.
There are no knobs... Just try to turn on the windshield wipers.
As compared to other manufacturers, Tesla has a decided advantage.
The factories were built from the ground up to build high tech electric cars with over the air technology upgrades.
To large extent, others are a compromise retrofit.
According to Bloomberg:
"This is a decisive barrier for legacy carmakers. Tesla's centralized, integrated, technology-driven architecture enables flexibility and OTA (over-the-air) software-upgrade-ability across the entire domain. In contrast, traditional architectures implement technology additively to the legacy infrastructure, resulting in decentralized electronic control units (ECUs) systems that creates excess complexity and incompatibility."
As to the Tesla bashers, well here's a few things to ponder:
There will be double to triple charging stations in the next few years.
Solar is getting cheaper; mine is being installed today.
The European and Asian markets are just starting to open; Tesla will sell tons of cars.
We bought ours because of the technology; going green and support of Elon's efforts.
I agree it is not everyman's car; heck if you wanna drive economically we could bought 3 Civics for the cost of the Model 3.
Another reason it is not for everyone is, it is a technology driven car. If you are not open to change; the Model 3 is not for you.
The car is simply amazing; there is nothing else like it.
If you think that's a silly statement, you haven't checked out or driven one.
There are no knobs... Just try to turn on the windshield wipers.
As compared to other manufacturers, Tesla has a decided advantage.
The factories were built from the ground up to build high tech electric cars with over the air technology upgrades.
To large extent, others are a compromise retrofit.
According to Bloomberg:
"This is a decisive barrier for legacy carmakers. Tesla's centralized, integrated, technology-driven architecture enables flexibility and OTA (over-the-air) software-upgrade-ability across the entire domain. In contrast, traditional architectures implement technology additively to the legacy infrastructure, resulting in decentralized electronic control units (ECUs) systems that creates excess complexity and incompatibility."
Last edited:
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by blueglide88
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
I am not sure how Elon screwed the taxpayers.
Please explain, as I thought the Congress was responsible for tax laws.
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
I am not sure how Elon screwed the taxpayers.
Please explain, as I thought the Congress was responsible for tax laws.
https://investorplace.com/2018/04/enough-of-the-tesla-musk-snake-oil/
"Tesla has gobbled up $5.3 billion in taxpayer money: a $3 billion factory subsidy from California, another $1.3 billion tax incentive from Nevada, a $45 million discounted Department of Energy loan, $517 million in the sale of California and other regulatory credits, $284 million in federal income tax credits given to Model S buyers and $257 million in other incentives."
A simple google search will lead to many stories on all these subjects. It's at the state and federal levels, so don't just blame Congress.
For years Tesla stayed in business selling carbon credits, not by selling cars. And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers.
"Tesla has gobbled up $5.3 billion in taxpayer money: a $3 billion factory subsidy from California, another $1.3 billion tax incentive from Nevada, a $45 million discounted Department of Energy loan, $517 million in the sale of California and other regulatory credits, $284 million in federal income tax credits given to Model S buyers and $257 million in other incentives."
A simple google search will lead to many stories on all these subjects. It's at the state and federal levels, so don't just blame Congress.
For years Tesla stayed in business selling carbon credits, not by selling cars. And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers.
Originally Posted by blueglide88
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
But we bat a blind eye at Toyota and Honda getting tax breaks.
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
But we bat a blind eye at Toyota and Honda getting tax breaks.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by blueglide88
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
But we bat a blind eye at Toyota and Honda getting tax breaks.
Apparently you did not read my post...........
"And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers."
Originally Posted by blueglide88
I really hate the way Elon has screwed the taxpayers.
But we bat a blind eye at Toyota and Honda getting tax breaks.
Apparently you did not read my post...........
"And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers."
Originally Posted by blueglide88
https://investorplace.com/2018/04/enough-of-the-tesla-musk-snake-oil/
"Tesla has gobbled up $5.3 billion in taxpayer money: a $3 billion factory subsidy from California, another $1.3 billion tax incentive from Nevada, a $45 million discounted Department of Energy loan, $517 million in the sale of California and other regulatory credits, $284 million in federal income tax credits given to Model S buyers and $257 million in other incentives."
A simple google search will lead to many stories on all these subjects. It's at the state and federal levels, so don't just blame Congress.
For years Tesla stayed in business selling carbon credits, not by selling cars. And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers.
I repeat my question:
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...
https://investorplace.com/2018/04/enough-of-the-tesla-musk-snake-oil/
"Tesla has gobbled up $5.3 billion in taxpayer money: a $3 billion factory subsidy from California, another $1.3 billion tax incentive from Nevada, a $45 million discounted Department of Energy loan, $517 million in the sale of California and other regulatory credits, $284 million in federal income tax credits given to Model S buyers and $257 million in other incentives."
A simple google search will lead to many stories on all these subjects. It's at the state and federal levels, so don't just blame Congress.
For years Tesla stayed in business selling carbon credits, not by selling cars. And for the record, I don't believe in giving any company
special tax breaks, nor do I believe in taxing them to death. I don't want the government at ANY level picking winners and losers. Let the market sort out the winners and losers.
I repeat my question:
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...
I repeat my question:
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...[/quote]
Why are you ok with deficit spending to fund Tesla with tax cuts but not the rest of us? Referring to your comment about tax cuts burdening the next generation in the other thread.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-my-federal-tax-cut-for-2018#Post5028202
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...[/quote]
Why are you ok with deficit spending to fund Tesla with tax cuts but not the rest of us? Referring to your comment about tax cuts burdening the next generation in the other thread.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-my-federal-tax-cut-for-2018#Post5028202
Originally Posted by mbacfp
I repeat my question:
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...
Why are you ok with deficit spending to fund Tesla with tax cuts but not the rest of us? Referring to your comment about tax cuts burdening the next generation in the other thread.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-my-federal-tax-cut-for-2018#Post5028202[/quote]
The post in question spoke to Elon screwed the taxpayers.
Tesla does not write the laws. That's my point.
I never said I was OK with the tax laws.
In fact, I think those who can afford higher taxes should pay more. People like me.
A family who makes less than $75K should pay low or even zero taxes.
I am against deficit spending in times of growth; we should be paying down the debt instead increasing it.
Deficits are useful in poor economic times to stimulate the economy.
Deficits in good economic times are just plain stupid.
Bailing out the savings and loans, bailing out farmers because of tariffs, all that stuff is wrong.
By the way, Tesla is a huge employer in the North Bay Area, second only to Lam Research. The revenue they bring into the area is welcome after NUMMI closed.
And the tax base is huge from employment.
Again, I never said I was in favor of government subsidies. Nor am I in favor of subsidies by companies paying far less taxes than I do.
Gee, Amazon made $11B last year. And how much is their tax burden?
I hope this helps.
I repeat my question:
How has Elon screwed the taxpayers?
By taking advantage of tax laws? Just askin'...
Why are you ok with deficit spending to fund Tesla with tax cuts but not the rest of us? Referring to your comment about tax cuts burdening the next generation in the other thread.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-my-federal-tax-cut-for-2018#Post5028202[/quote]
The post in question spoke to Elon screwed the taxpayers.
Tesla does not write the laws. That's my point.
I never said I was OK with the tax laws.
In fact, I think those who can afford higher taxes should pay more. People like me.
A family who makes less than $75K should pay low or even zero taxes.
I am against deficit spending in times of growth; we should be paying down the debt instead increasing it.
Deficits are useful in poor economic times to stimulate the economy.
Deficits in good economic times are just plain stupid.
Bailing out the savings and loans, bailing out farmers because of tariffs, all that stuff is wrong.
By the way, Tesla is a huge employer in the North Bay Area, second only to Lam Research. The revenue they bring into the area is welcome after NUMMI closed.
And the tax base is huge from employment.
Again, I never said I was in favor of government subsidies. Nor am I in favor of subsidies by companies paying far less taxes than I do.
Gee, Amazon made $11B last year. And how much is their tax burden?
I hope this helps.
Last edited:
- Status
