I chose the word "agility" carefully. I did not say "roadholding" or "cornering". A heavy car like a Tesla can have the suspension and tires to stick to the road through the corners. But, as a famous engineer from the future said, "Ya canna change the laws of physics!". All that mass has inertia even if it sticks to the road well. If you're going through the slalom or switch-backs it is a lot of weight to slug back and forth and consequent slow response time. All else equal, a lighter car is more nimble because it has less inertia.
Rental Car Review: 4 Days with a Tesla Model 3 Performance
- Thread starter dogememe
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It sounds as if you have never driven a Model 3. The handling is incredible. A true driver's car.
They go like stink. A Model 3 Performance will make life miserable for cars costing 3 times its price.
In autocross, you're constantly accelerating & decelerating. The insta-torque of an electric
The responsive electric drive may be part of the equation, yet we all know the Miata turns in fast autocross times not due to the engine, but due to the chassis and size. The other part of the equation is that the Model 3's 1.3G cornering forces are generated instantly. The polar graph of forces clearly show world class response time. Please don't get hung up on the mass. The cornering power is there, the steering effort is light, the mass is very centrally located and it's low.
We can argue mass all day, but one look at the F22 fighter jet and it's 20+ tons of weight dart around like it's a toy. There is enough force to move all that mass rapidly, much like the Tesla.
The Tesla does everything well except go fast for long periods of time.
Would the tesla be a better autocross car if it was 1000lbs lighter with the same power to weight ratio? Yes, but it seems that the chassis(tires, shocks, brakes) can have their capacity increased to sling around a heavy car pretty much the same as a lighter car. The old days of the 60's Mini vs Mustang racing were only kind of even because the Mustang's chassis wasn't as capable for its weight as the Mini.
You all make some good points.
My point is that 2 cars with the same lap times can have a completely different feel and experience when driving. To me, the ideal sports car has no electronics or computers, the instant nimbleness and agility that is unique to lightweight cars, with a visceral, mechanical experience when driving. A prepped Miata may have similar autox lap times to a Tesla, but a totally different experience for the driver.
@Cujet mentioned an aviation analogy. An F22 goes faster and pulls more Gs, but a vintage aerobatic taildragger like a Citabria has the visceral, immediate flying experience that I prefer. That's not a perfect analogy since their "lap times" would not be similar. But I think it expresses the idea.
My point is that 2 cars with the same lap times can have a completely different feel and experience when driving. To me, the ideal sports car has no electronics or computers, the instant nimbleness and agility that is unique to lightweight cars, with a visceral, mechanical experience when driving. A prepped Miata may have similar autox lap times to a Tesla, but a totally different experience for the driver.
@Cujet mentioned an aviation analogy. An F22 goes faster and pulls more Gs, but a vintage aerobatic taildragger like a Citabria has the visceral, immediate flying experience that I prefer. That's not a perfect analogy since their "lap times" would not be similar. But I think it expresses the idea.
Calif is starting to charge $100 extra on registration starting next year. Cars 2019 or before are exempt which I think had to have been a political decision because it makes no sense. The tax is to help participate in road costs not just let others pay for it. Age of car has nothing to do with road use. At least it’s something.
A plug in is the way I like. Essentially all the electric perks of instant acceleration etc but no need to think about charging if don’t want to. For me I dont need or want 2.9 0-60, for what?
How much better do you get than "Fastest time of the day" ? They are epic good at the autocross track and the roadrace track.
I love Teslas and think the future is here BUT the fit and finish is not up to par and if you are in an accident nobody but Tesla makes parts so it may take a long time to get your vehicle repaired plus with a very limited dearler network you are going to wait if your car ever needs service. The limited range is an issue too. I drive to Mexico City a lot, so to me a Tesla wont work. I do want to buy a EV in the future, and keep a ICE vehicle. Just my opinion, I'm in awe what Tesla has done and commend Musk for his forward thinking and the cajones to take on the big auto makers and baisically woop em.
I wish there were more used ones for sale. They seem to hold their value very well. I want one but am going to wait a little longer however they seem to be a very dependable vehicle which is something I like. If gas were a lot higher priced they would sell more. Gas is still very reasonable in South Dakota therefore I am in no huge hurry. I cannot imagine paying $0.00 for gasoline and buying an 80,000 or 90,000 mile set of tires and wiper blades as the only wear items. That would be totally AWESOME!
that battery has a life span just like anything else
The people who are in love with these rare earth element driven vehicles are the same idiots who are against nuclear power plants being built.
The power has to come from somewhere.
"If Ford was a trillion-dollar company, our stock would be worth about $250 a share. Think about the value creation of Tesla right now. And they have resources, smart people, the Model 3 is now the bestselling vehicle in Europe. Not electric. Flat out. It was the bestselling vehicle in the UK. Most months, it’s the bestselling vehicle in California. Not just electric, but overall. If we’re going to succeed, we can’t ignore this competition anymore.
"Look at Tesla, why are they doing what they're doing and what can we learn from them. First, they have a direct model ... There’s no one in between. They make it so easy. Three or four clicks configuring the vehicle with not a lot of complexity to delivering it to the customer. Simple, non-negotiated pricing. A large reservation system as well as remote service.
"Second, Tesla maximizes use of electrons in the vehicle. No one does it better than they do. Their customers pay less for a better battery. Their focus … after they launch the vehicle, their obsession after the launch of the vehicle, to make the customer experience better, to re-engineer the electronic components, to simplify, to address quality based on data coming off the vehicles, to reduce the bill of material based on how people actually use the vehicle, to drive vertical integration, so they do more and they solve the hardest problems at Tesla. And they manage every electron so they can be as efficient as possible with the expense of battery."
"Third, the product itself is highly differentiated from the rest of the ICE field and complexity is tiny, compared to OEMs. That allows them to have enormous reuse. Reuse that we’ve never seen in our ICE business. Tesla can scale quickly because of that complexity reduction. They can drive cost down, which they have. They can keep processes simple."
The wave of the future no doubt. I won't be buying one any time soon though.
This is absolutely correct, at least from my experience. I know several Tesla owners and two of them routinely make long trips in their cars. Neither "tops off" their cars while traveling. They just put in enough electrons to get to their next destination, whether it be another charging facility or other places along their route.Self test: Do you double click at the end of a fill to get the last drop in the tank? That's obsessive compulsive. Electric car owners will become familiar with how much of a charge is really required. Only the old farts will sit there charging their car to 100%.
I see a lot of people who have had no experience with a Tesla criticize various aspects of the car without really knowing what they're talking about. How many of these keyboard critics have driven a Tesla, lived with it for a while, or taken a long trip in it?
I'm no Tesla expert, but I have driven several, and one for a distance of about 300 miles. In many ways, it's a lovely vehicle, although it isn't perfect (what car is) and, as has been said here many times, it's not for everybody. But then, neither is a Camry, Cadillac, Porsche, or BMW.
And apart from all the technical babble, Musk has given the car a somewhat whimsical nature. Here's a little Xmas greeting I got from a Tesla owner:
Check out this VIDEO. We just did it with our car. Video of our car doing it after dark to come in a few days.
We parked our car in the driveway, invited a few neighbors over and started the show (whose comments you will hear in the background). If you want to see the video click HERE to see it on our web site. Enjoy! and happy new year. Make sure to turn up your volume.
I'm no Tesla expert, but I have driven several, and one for a distance of about 300 miles. In many ways, it's a lovely vehicle, although it isn't perfect (what car is) and, as has been said here many times, it's not for everybody. But then, neither is a Camry, Cadillac, Porsche, or BMW.
And apart from all the technical babble, Musk has given the car a somewhat whimsical nature. Here's a little Xmas greeting I got from a Tesla owner:
Check out this VIDEO. We just did it with our car. Video of our car doing it after dark to come in a few days.
We parked our car in the driveway, invited a few neighbors over and started the show (whose comments you will hear in the background). If you want to see the video click HERE to see it on our web site. Enjoy! and happy new year. Make sure to turn up your volume.
not one question about the climate control system. how do these cope in extreme heat and severe cold? no one ever mentions this
I would have loved to have got a tesla except:
Terrible quality
Immature charging infrastructure vs range vs convenience
Ground clearance
Terrible quality
Immature charging infrastructure vs range vs convenience
Ground clearance
The range is abysmal. Doc friend barely made it home from work when it was colder, out. Had 12% left, he said. We live similar distances from work. No ty!
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