The main reason I change oil at 3000 miles...sludge!

[nascarnation]

Not sure about engines but for transmissions NYC Sanitation was one of our benchmark difficult applications at Allison. One of the sites used to develop TranSynd.

 

[OVERKILL]

Why exactly is it that he has joined an oil forum? Why have you joined an oil forum? To extol the virtues of doing things the way you have always done them?

This guy advocates his way of thinking because he saw a video on the FordTechMakuloco channel? Brian is a great mechanic but he has absolutely zero OCI data on these two engines. Completely anecdotal beyond the fact that one looks better taken care of than the other. There is zero data on how those engines got to that point.

Perhaps @Navi should get some actual data on his vehicle or fleet and make an onformed decision about when to change the oil. That means doing oil analysis. If he brought data back that said, the fuel dilution on the motor is too high for his comfort level after 3K, fine, I can support that. But taking a shot in the dark based on a YouTube video, that's not how we roll around here.

He's done UOA's, but they were with Blackstone, so the fuel dilution figure of course isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure he has me on ignore, as I've pointed out the fault in the logic of trying to use that data to ascertain how much shear is going on, which was in turn being used to determine which oil "held up" best, none of which was replied to.

 

[whiplash473]

So I just sit back and laugh every 2 weeks (probably every oil change) when the “latest and greatest” 3k oil post pops up, with dubious claims made from a 2-week test based on a $38 UOA from a lab that generates a lot of data that is questioned for its accuracy.

He's done UOA's, but they were with Blackstone, so the fuel dilution figure of course isn't accurate.

Which company would you recommend instead of Blackstone?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Which company would you recommend instead of Blackstone?

Pretty much any of the others. Oil Analyzers, Wearcheck, the WIX/NAPA ones, CAT, etc. You want a place that does gas chromatography (GC) for fuel testing, not an inferred % based on flashpoint.

If you have a regular port-injected vehicle this isn’t as big a deal, since most port-injected engines stay around/below 2% no matter what the operating conditions were.

 

[OVERKILL]

Which company would you recommend instead of Blackstone?

I like OAI/Polaris, but as @SubieRubyRoo noted, any lab that does GC is a fine choice.

 

[dnewton3]

All the top line up have plenty of anti-oxidants and detergents/dispersants. Base oil selection is important as well, but any ester/PAO/AN or even a clean Group III base oil would be fine in this application. No Amsoil oils are only ester. No such animal.

In this situation, the XL line up would be more than fine, which is a high additive Group III oil. But OP seems to want to stick with Walmart oils.

Thank you for the info! I would concur that the XL would be a good choice given the conditions for the OP.

I think too many people look past the grp III lubes in their search for the "pure synthetic" (ugh ... I hate that phrase ...)
A very high quality III with a stout add pack can do every bit as well as any PAO in all but the most uber-cold conditions.

 

[GR_CoB]

I am a strong supporter of shorter OCIs. But even for me this seems quite excessive...

 

[ZZman]

I would say with conventional oil 3,000 oci's are ok. But with Syn oil I think 5,000 is a nice number.

 

[Cary]

I remember when I started at this site, a lot of the interest was in longer oil intervals and using UOAs to establish what they were. Based on my own UOAs, I elected to do 10k interval changes on my Toyota Land cruiser with M1 0w-40. It had 120k miles then, 290k now, still burns no oil, top end was clean as a whistle at 225k when did the head gasket and new valve seals.

I ran the Porsche recommended 10k intervals on my Cayenne with a VR6. Sold at 190k and no oil burning between changes and no signs of any varnish or sludge. Doing the recommended 10k intervals on my new twin turbo Cayenne. I do a shorter 7,500 mile interval on my wifes X3 N55 motor with a smaller sump and mostly, short trips.

There is no one size fits all interval, but I cannot recall ever seeing any sludge issues for any engine that had 5,000 mile changes with a decent synthetic.

 

[cptbarkey]

You can go ahead and search on Google and Youtube to learn about sludge if you are not knowledgable. In "severe" and "extreme" duty driving one challenge is sludge.

Sludge is the main reason I change the oil every 3000 miles. Most notably I found the best oil to be one with the most detergents. Through my testing and reviews of VOAs I found the best value oil to be Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic but the best oil to be the Valvoline family which has detergent rich formulations.

For Ford Ecoboost engines I use Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life. For the GMs I use Dexos rated Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic. Both are detergent rich oils.

My real life experience is the livery business in and around New York City. I have had engines sludge up in the past. When I first started in the industry I did 5000 and 7000 mile intervals and through hard lessons I learned 3000 is the way to go.

Here is one video from the Ford tech of a sludged engine. However there are countless videos and articles which can be found with a Google search. If you ask any mechanic they will tell you to change at 3000 miles and why? Sludge!

We all have different situations. If you lease or plan on selling before 70000 miles a 3000 mile interval may not matter to you. However if you plan on keeping the vehicle above 100000 miles or describe your use as "Severe" or "Extreme" duty trust me...3000 is the way to go.

Does your fleet idle alot? Just curious to understand your definition of severe or extreme livery duty.

 

[Bill7]

You can go ahead and search on Google and Youtube to learn about sludge if you are not knowledgable. In "severe" and "extreme" duty driving one challenge is sludge.

Sludge is the main reason I change the oil every 3000 miles. Most notably I found the best oil to be one with the most detergents. Through my testing and reviews of VOAs I found the best value oil to be Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic but the best oil to be the Valvoline family which has detergent rich formulations.

For Ford Ecoboost engines I use Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life. For the GMs I use Dexos rated Quaker State High Mileage Full Synthetic. Both are detergent rich oils.

My real life experience is the livery business in and around New York City. I have had engines sludge up in the past. When I first started in the industry I did 5000 and 7000 mile intervals and through hard lessons I learned 3000 is the way to go.

Here is one video from the Ford tech of a sludged engine. However there are countless videos and articles which can be found with a Google search. If you ask any mechanic they will tell you to change at 3000 miles and why? Sludge!

We all have different situations. If you lease or plan on selling before 70000 miles a 3000 mile interval may not matter to you. However if you plan on keeping the vehicle above 100000 miles or describe your use as "Severe" or "Extreme" duty trust me...3000 is the way to go.

My Honda J35 V-6 engines are prone to sludge.

I do 4,000 mile / 6 month (whichever comes first) oil changrs with a low priced full synthetic 5W-30 (not 5W-20)..

My belief is it's not what oil you use,. It's how often you change it that's important.

 

[CarbonSteel]

For Ford Ecoboost engines I use Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life.

Very curious about your fuel dilution in the Ecoboost--are you performing UOAs? If so, which company? Is this a 3.5L, 3.0L, or 2.7L?

 

[Astro14]

He refuses to acknowledge it, because of the “excessive cost” to buy HPL, compared to changing oil and filters & equipment downtime every 2 weeks.

And re: the hobby comment above, changing oil on fleet vehicles that could be out making you money is not a hobby. It’s pure expense and lost revenue.

Completely agree. The OP has failed to consider the lost revenue of his downtime.

Downtime is why HPL has so many big fleet customers. If you can double (or quadruple, in some cases) your OCI, then your equipment stays in operation longer, avoids the downtime for routine maintenance, making you money.

HPL’s lubes allow operators to do precisely that.

But those operators can do the cost/benefit analysis that has eluded the OP.

 

[Pablo]

Completely agree. The OP has failed to consider the lost revenue of his downtime.

Downtime is why HPL has so many big fleet customers. If you can double (or quadruple, in some cases) your OCI, then your equipment stays in operation longer, avoids the downtime for routine maintenance, making you money.

HPL’s lubes allow operators to do precisely that.

But those operators can do the cost/benefit analysis that has eluded the OP.

Why pitch HPL? You are a mod.

Any good synthetic would do the job. Keep it neutral man.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Completely agree. The OP has failed to consider the lost revenue of his downtime.

Downtime is why HPL has so many big fleet customers. If you can double (or quadruple, in some cases) your OCI, then your equipment stays in operation longer, avoids the downtime for routine maintenance, making you money.

HPL’s lubes allow operators to do precisely that.

But those operators can do the cost/benefit analysis that has eluded the OP.

The other thing I’ve realized with HPL is that if the machine is on say a 6 month PM program, and when the PM comes up if there are factors preventing doing the PM, if you have properly selected the PM intervals, there is almost zero risk to extending the interval for a period until it can be caught up.

This gives your maintenance plan HUGE flexibility without putting your assets at risk. There have been some machines that if you did not replace the fluid on time, even by a week or two, there was measurable degradation in the vibration analysis and UOAs for that equipment. To me, that factor alone makes HPL worth its weight in gold for industrial applications as well.

 

[Astro14]

Why pitch HPL? You are a mod.

Any good synthetic would do the job. Keep it neutral man.

Because HPL was specifically mentioned and I’ve seen proprietary data where operators have done just that. I can’t disclose the industries or entities involved, but that is HPL’s bread and butter - big fleets, longer in service time, with data to back up the extended intervals for those customers.

But you make a good point, Pablo. AMSOIL makes excellent oils for extended service life, and the OP would be well served by considering AMSOIL as well. I have used AMSOIL products; Fuel system cleaner, grease, oil, transmission fluid, gear oil, Metal Protector and, of course, engine oil, and been very pleased.

The OP would be well-served to consider AMSOIL when, and if, he ever figures out the cost of his down time, and starts to analyze the performance of the oil in service with data, instead of fear.

My apologies for sounding like I am promoting one product over another when my point was: consider the cost of downtime, and not just the cost of the oil.

 

[Pablo]

Because HPL was specifically mentioned and I’ve seen proprietary data where operators have done just that. I can’t disclose the industries or entities involved, but that is HPL’s bread and butter - big fleets, longer in service time, with data to back up the extended intervals for those customers.

But you make a good point, Pablo. AMSOIL makes excellent oils for extended service life, and the OP would be well served by considering AMSOIL as well. I have used AMSOIL products; Fuel system cleaner, grease, oil, transmission fluid, gear oil, Metal Protector and, of course, engine oil, and been very pleased.

The OP would be well-served to consider AMSOIL when, and if, he ever figures out the cost of his down time, and starts to analyze the performance of the oil in service with data, instead of fear.

My apologies for sounding like I am promoting one product over another when my point was: consider the cost of downtime, and not just the cost of the oil.

Well, I assumed the OP was committed to WM oils, as he clearly stated.

And I meant what I wrote, ANY synthetic (good!) oil would better this situation, IMHO. Unless he has some mechanical issues which are causing sludge in 3K.

 

[wemay]

I'm in agreement where others have mentioned a Grp III synthetic. But if you can find a Blend/Conventional that meets spec and is significantly cheaper, 3K miles wouldn't be an issue for said lubes either.

 

[4WD]

Read the thread - he’s not looking for advice - he’s just giving it to the wrong crowd …

 

[The Critic]

I think the OP needs an engine hour meter. I suspect his 3K OCI is probably equivalent to 200-250 Engine Hours, which is closer to a 5-6K interval for the average driver who sees a lot of city driving.

For 3.5 Ford Ecoboost engines with a history of timing issues, a 5-6K interval is probably about right.