Tesla Truck will need power of 4,000 homes!

Simply
* you can't replace a Gas station with a Tesla charging station...your electric Arc furnace has it's own power supply, nt running off the domestic system.
* Musk is selling these things as 'though his future infrastructure requirements are already there.
* Take even a Walmart, charging trucks as they unload...a handfull of trucks at 2MW PER truck is significant...ISN'T IT ???

Here I had a crack at the issues of gas station of the future you are welcome to critique it.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4577260/"Gas"_Statio

http://reneweconomy.com.au/elon-musk-unveils-the-long-range-tesla-semi-electric-truck-19790/
Quote:
Musk has confirmed it will have a range of up to 800km (500 miles) on a single charge, and will be able to add 400 miles (643km) of range in 30 minutes of charging. “By the time you are done with your break, the truck is ready to go. You will not be waiting for your truck to charge,” he said.

*The trucks will be charged via specialised “megachargers” which will generate the energy required to charge the battery via solar panels. “Your truck is running on sunlight,” said Musk.


The guy is a charlatan selling vaporware, and you are falling for it...

You've got your suicide plugged solar panels, scale it up to 1.2MWh...heck, even give them 100% efficiency, not the 25% that I use, as who knows what's coming eh ?

Just work out how many square feet of panels, AT 100% efficiency are needed to charge the truck as per what Musk has stated...then tell us that he's telling the full truth...



My brother had a mate whose Dad was a real estate guy. Sold a bunch of rural property as "awaiting rezoning to residential"...which was technically true, he lodged the application the day he put the signs up. Didn't even have permission to subdivide.

People bought the properties, at the residential rate...then lobbied for the rezone.

Local Govt caved due to the overwhelming pressure, then had to upgrade everyone else's infrastructure (sewage, water, gas, electricity) for the "new subdivision".
 
Around me the large consumers of power on around a higher voltage grid that the typical residential power supply. Usually some where around 75kv versus the 7.2kv for single phase.

And the steel plant still gets it power from the same source as the rest as far as generation.

Not talking about mom and pop charging their Teslas at home. Why the misdirect?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
The guy is a charlatan selling vaporware, and you are falling for it...


^^^ THIS. If you follow Musk's history you'll see he's more a con man than an actual innovator. Hint: PayPal fired him.

Use some critical thinking and a hint of math and you'll see most of what he says is [censored]. The most recent Tesla conference call was funny with him rambling on about "Air friction" being the reason they can't speed up the robots on the assembly line. It was a hoot!
 
That's been my point all along...dedicated infrastructure.

The Walmart can't just install a mega charger to charge the trucks unloading, they will need a dedicated infrastructure.

And their bills (if they are anything like industry in Oz) include payments for peak loading, not just average utilisation like residential.

Of course they all share the same generators...nice twist.

Now, have you scaled up your solar example to see if Musk's claims cut the mustard ?
 
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


LOL, the "poser" freudian slip before the edit was the funniest.Yes poser's are the ones lining up to have their names on the buy list for the vaporware.

And Yes, if Walmart want it they will do it.

To say that it requires change and infrastructure isn't buggywhipping, it's a valid question as is to ask who is paying ?

Now scaled up that solar claim yet ?

Surely something as blatant as that can't be described as solvable by future innovation...just do the math at 100%, assuming that's the upper limit of efficiency.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SHOZ


And the steel plant still gets it power from the same source as the rest as far as generation.



Some of them use gas and do cogen, keep that in mind. In Ontario, that's become more common as prices have gone up.

But the point that both Shannow and Garak are making is that when that steel plant went in, assuming cogeneration wasn't part of the install, there was a known element of consumption with an appropriate tie-in which they would pay for. This type of tie-in does not exist at existing gas stations or Walmart, and none of the infrastructure would be in place to support it either. That's something to keep in mind.

The same goes with the whole solar panel nonsense. A typical truck stop isn't going to have several hundred acres of spare land to put solar panels and batteries on, ergo that claim is nonsense, which in turn means that we are looking at the above grid-tie scenario and the expense that goes with it. Who is expected to pay for that?

To provide the volume of power necessary, I think we'll see more interest in SMR nuclear technology located closer to the point of consumption. 80-90MW of 4 acre nuke at 90% efficiency that can produce 24/7/265 makes a heck of a lot more sense than 200 acres of solar @ 10MW and 25% efficiency.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ


And the steel plant still gets it power from the same source as the rest as far as generation.



Some of them use gas and do cogen, keep that in mind. In Ontario, that's become more common as prices have gone up.

But the point that both Shannow and Garak are making is that when that steel plant went in, assuming cogeneration wasn't part of the install, there was a known element of consumption with an appropriate tie-in which they would pay for. This type of tie-in does not exist at existing gas stations or Walmart, and none of the infrastructure would be in place to support it either. That's something to keep in mind.

The same goes with the whole solar panel nonsense. A typical truck stop isn't going to have several hundred acres of spare land to put solar panels and batteries on, ergo that claim is nonsense, which in turn means that we are looking at the above grid-tie scenario and the expense that goes with it. Who is expected to pay for that?

To provide the volume of power necessary, I think we'll see more interest in SMR nuclear technology located closer to the point of consumption. 80-90MW of 4 acre nuke at 90% efficiency that can produce 24/7/265 makes a heck of a lot more sense than 200 acres of solar @ 10MW and 25% efficiency.
You missed electric arc furnace which is the majority of steel mill furnaces in the US,
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
Those that use it pay for it.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You missed electric arc furnace which is the majority of steel mill furnaces in the US,


Dude, I didn't miss anything. Do you not understand what cogeneration is?
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
Those that use it pay for it.


So Walmart is going to cut checks for tens/hundreds of millions to each generating facility and distribution company to beef up the infrastructure? As others have shown the solar stuff isn't practical on that scale.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
Those that use it pay for it.


So Walmart is going to cut checks for tens/hundreds of millions to each generating facility and distribution company to beef up the infrastructure? As others have shown the solar stuff isn't practical on that scale.
That's generally how for profit electrical generators work. Whoever uses it pays for it. No different than building a new factory .
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
That's generally how for profit electrical generators work. Whoever uses it pays for it. No different than building a new factory .


And when the bean counter sees the crazy amount to buy the trucks (notice no pricing has been announced), the crazy price to pay for the electrical upgrades, the crazy price for the charging stations, they will calculate that cost vs Diesel and say "NO". Or you'll get a token amount for the press and then it will quickly fade away.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
Those that use it pay for it.


So what are you envisioning, that Flying J will spent millions of dollars on this infrastructure per truck stop to enable this all on their own? How are they going to recoup that money at Elon's claimed $0.07/kWh? Particularly given he'd need to get less than that from the utility to make money on it. I know in Ontario, that would be a pipe dream.
 
I'm still waiting for SHOZ to defend the solar powered trucks claim.

If that can't pass the truth test, then everything that Musk spouts comes from the same mouth.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
That's generally how for profit electrical generators work. Whoever uses it pays for it. No different than building a new factory .


And when the bean counter sees the crazy amount to buy the trucks (notice no pricing has been announced), the crazy price to pay for the electrical upgrades, the crazy price for the charging stations, they will calculate that cost vs Diesel and say "NO". Or you'll get a token amount for the press and then it will quickly fade away.
They will be autonomous too.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'm still waiting for SHOZ to defend the solar powered trucks claim.

If that can't pass the truth test, then everything that Musk spouts comes from the same mouth.
What claim is that? Is this a misdirect?
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'm still waiting for SHOZ to defend the solar powered trucks claim.

If that can't pass the truth test, then everything that Musk spouts comes from the same mouth.
What claim is that? Is this a misdirect?


Look up a couple of posts...

Originally Posted By: Shannow
http://reneweconomy.com.au/elon-musk-unveils-the-long-range-tesla-semi-electric-truck-19790/
Quote:
Musk has confirmed it will have a range of up to 800km (500 miles) on a single charge, and will be able to add 400 miles (643km) of range in 30 minutes of charging. “By the time you are done with your break, the truck is ready to go. You will not be waiting for your truck to charge,” he said.

*The trucks will be charged via specialised “megachargers” which will generate the energy required to charge the battery via solar panels. “Your truck is running on sunlight,” said Musk.
 
Please use your own home example, and scale it up to see if the statement holds an semblance of reality...

Imagine that future generations manage 100% solar panel efficiency and see if it works then either..
 
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