Tesla Truck will need power of 4,000 homes!

Aug 21, 2008
ON, Canada eh?
NOVEMBER 27, 2017 Peter Campbell and Nathalie Thomas in London 219 comments One of Europe’s leading energy consultancies has estimated that Tesla’s electric haulage truck will require the same power as up to 4,000 homes to recharge, calculations that raise questions over the project’s viability.  The US electric carmaker unveiled a battery-powered truck earlier this month, promising haulage drivers they could add 400 miles of charge in as little as 30 minutes using a new “megacharger” to be made by the company.  John Feddersen, chief executive of Aurora Energy Research, a consultancy set up in 2013 by a group of Oxford university professors, said the power required for the megacharger to fill a battery in that amount of time would be 1,600 kilowatts. That is the equivalent of providing power for 3,000-4,000 “average” houses, he told a London conference last week, and is 10 times as powerful as Tesla’s current network of “superchargers” for its electric cars.  Tesla declined to comment on the calculations. Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive, has previously said the megachargers would be solar-powered but the company has not confirmed whether they will also have a grid connection for when it is not sunny. Many of Tesla’s current superchargers are powered in part by renewable energy. The company is also experimenting with storage batteries to ease demands on the grid.  Mr Feddersen used the example of the Tesla truck to highlight the need for greater debate around how grid infrastructure will need to be adapted to meet demand for electric vehicles.  “There are smart and dumb ways to incorporate this level of capacity requirement into the system, but either way, fully electrified road transport will need a large amount of new infrastructure,” he told the Financial Times.  Other experts in battery technology have claimed that charging a truck in half an hour would require technology exceeding anything available. “The fastest chargers today can support up to around 450kW charging, so it’s not clear yet how Tesla will achieve their desired charging speeds,” said Colin McKerracher, head of advanced transport at Bloomberg New Energy Finance, a consultancy. “One option may be to segment the battery somehow and actually charge different segments simultaneously. This adds additional costs and we haven't seen anything like that done at anywhere near this power output.” National Grid, which oversees Britain’s electricity system, has suggested that in the most extreme scenario, electric vehicles could create as much as 18 gigawatts of additional demand for power at peak times in the UK by 2050.  This is the equivalent capacity of nearly six nuclear power stations on the scale of the Hinkley Point project under construction in the south-west of England.  Industry experts believe strains on the system could be reduced by using “smart chargers” that only re-boot vehicle batteries when the grid is able to cope, rather than at peak times, such as after work.
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Here's what I posted 10 days before that... https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4577295/Re:_New_Tesla_Truck_-_500mi_Ra#Post4577295 Musk/Tesla not commenting on what's simply fundamental math (or coming out with what exactly their amazing new technology) is PT Barnum behaviour at it's best. I get ragged as a luddite naysayer, but facts are facts...
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Here's the tractive effort curves from Cummins... https://cumminsengines.com/uploads/docs/cummins_secrets_of_better_fuel_economy.pdf Given the close coupled electric motors, say 200hp for a first approximation...150KW makes the math easier. 500 miles at 60 miles per hour is 8.3 hours...1.25MWh of storage... Six of these...mira alto substation has nearly 400 of these cubicles at 210KWh each...
Half the "gross vehicle weight" will probably be the battery bank. What's the supposed max load weight and range before a recharge is needed? And recharge time? ... gotta be a while.
Re the solar powered claim... I looked up Central Tech Stadium, in Toronto...(It's in Bathurst Street, I drive around Bathurst a few times per year - next town along). Using google Maps, there's a total of 15,000 square metres available to play with. Using http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/18366 And 25% efficient solar cells, gives 1KWh of electricity available for every one of those square metres, making it a potential 15MWh per day generating station...enough for 12 trucks on my calcs, or 10 on the linked article. OF COURSE it has to be grid connected...to throw it into batteries and then reclaim it loses 10% up front, and costs of the order of 25c/KWh round trip. https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-storage-analysis-20/ But assuming he is battery focused...which he appears to be, needs to find a spot for 72 of those refigerator looking batteries, and drop the number of vehicles that can be fueled by one... But, as they keep saying, technology will fix all those things...
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Half the "load" will probably be the battery bank. What's the supposed max load weight and range before a recharge is needed? And recharge time? ... gotta be a while.
Go to StevieC's original thread (my first link)...that's the stamtent of claims from Tesla...80,000lb, 500 miles, recharge in minutes (not days)
I don't buy that 1.6MW is 3-4000 homes but maybe.... I do think that hybrids would benefit heavy trucks in the long run, especially garbage, delivery, and similar trucks that start and stop. Electric tractors like the one in discussion may be useful for inner city and high traffic areas where idling and starting/stopping/varying load diesels contribute to pollution. I can't see that this is a solution for most mainstream OTR trucking. I haven't read enough to see that it's definitely being sold that way. 400 miles could be six hours of interstate or a couple days of local deliveries at far lower average speed. High low end electric torque, smaller engines, and electric braking might benefit OTR trucking as well, as battery and power electronics densify, but I'll believe that when I see it.
Here's Musk's Claim...
As The Verge reports, the Tesla Semi promises to deliver a 500-mile range on a single charge. To be clear, that's 500 miles driving with 80,000 pounds of cargo loaded in the back. While carrying all that weight the Semi can reach speeds of 65mph up a 5 percent grade climb (diesel trucks only manage 45mph) and the Semi easily out-accelerates a diesel truck regardless of the weight being carried. Other impressive features Musk divulged included a 400-mile range achieved with only a 30-minute charge. Four independent motors on the rear axles allow Tesla to make it impossible for the Semi to jackknife. It also means you'll never have to change the brake pads, as most of the kinetic braking energy gets fed back into the battery rather than wearing the pads down. ....
The big question is of course, how much will this truck cost? Then you get into figuring the cost per mile/km and calculate that into the costs of shipping. I’m guessing that freight charges will go up. Perhaps Musk is counting on subsidies or credits for companies to buy electric trucks? I like the hybrid idea better. I wonder how a diesel electric truck would work out? It worked for ships and locomotives
Re the 3-4,000 homes, agree, it's more like 1,000 homes daily consumption. Even the 2MW transfer rate to shift 1 MWh in 30 minutes, is still only about 700 homes peak draw rate.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
The big question is of course, how much will this truck cost? Then you get into figuring the cost per mile/km and calculate that into the costs of shipping. I’m guessing that freight charges will go up.
Musk's numbers
As for economics, Musk broke it down to a cost per mile. Simply put, a diesel truck costs $1.51 per mile travelled taking into account the total cost of operation. The Tesla Semi only costs $1.26 per mile, and that's carrying 80,000 pounds and travelling at an average speed of 60mph.
Look at the costs of operating a truck... http://www.freightmetrics.com.au/Calculators/TruckOperatingCostCalculator/tabid/104/Default.aspx I think he's banking on at least free electricity.
It went into service this week. 5% of the peak capacity for 5% of a day...pretty impressive eh ? No release on how much the SA Govt spend on it other than it was part of their $550M "plan"...so I can only work of Lazard when trying to crunch the numbers.
Think about how much electricity is already piped into your basic a wall mart center - this truck wont be too much of a burden. UD
Initially it seemed impressive, and I figured there had to be a catch. Bottom line there's no free lunch.
That truck is pure vaporware and always will be. Maybe a prototype or two. Never will work out. From an environmental perspective, it will be responsible for more emissions (indirectly) than a diesel truck if the electricity to charge it comes off a predominantly fossil fuel based generation grid. And let's not even get into the environmental issues surrounding lithium mining indirectly behind it's gargantuan battery pack.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
This truck will never work in the real world. Cool concept though...
Disagree: This should be able to easily charge the truck!
Elon Musk is not P.T. Barnum, he is more like Edison or Tesla himself. He founded PayPal, he is creating cars that defy conventional wisdom at Tesla, he is working on a human vacuum tube transportation system like you see in The Jetsons or Futurama, and some people believe that he is also the anonymous inventor of bitcoin. If any BITOGers have grave concerns about the viability of his new trucks, they can contact him directly on twitter. Might get a highly-paid engineering job if you can show him where they're wrong.
Cujet, Who is responsible for setting up charging stations at truck stops and having the dedicated parking area ? Will the government pass some bull [censored] law requiring accommodations for Tesla trucks ?