Tesla Truck will need power of 4,000 homes!

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
That's generally how for profit electrical generators work. Whoever uses it pays for it. No different than building a new factory .


And when the bean counter sees the crazy amount to buy the trucks (notice no pricing has been announced), the crazy price to pay for the electrical upgrades, the crazy price for the charging stations, they will calculate that cost vs Diesel and say "NO". Or you'll get a token amount for the press and then it will quickly fade away.
They will be autonomous too.

The autonomous part will help Walmart, Sobeys, Budweiser....etc save money. It will do nothing for the truck stop infrastructure necessary to support longer hauls.

I can see Walmart ponying up the money for a much larger grid tie at their facilities if the end result saves them money. With automation, that makes it even more likely. So for short-hauls within the range of a single charge, that will work.

It is the long-haul stuff and companies that don't own their own fleets and use owner/operators that becomes a much larger cost obstacle. And that still doesn't touch on the solar claims that Shannow mentioned. Exposure in northern climates is even lower, making the space required that much larger. And then there is the cost of the solar, the batteries....etc. Where a grid-tie may actually just end up being significantly cheaper, particularly given the panel lifespan.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
[/quote]They will be autonomous too.

That's worked out so well for Tesla in the past. Heck, even the big names can't get autonomous correct. I'd not want an 80,000lb driverless vehicle sharing the interstate with me at this point in time (or even 2018).

 

[Shannow]

The claim isn't autonomy...it's stay in lane, and automatic lane changing.

His "self driving" stuff already is scary and he won't take responsibility for it claiming that the driver always has to be the ultimate authority.

In an industry with high levels of automation, the more automated you make a process, the less connected the operator is...then when something happens, they've got seconds to learn where they are in the process and identify what went wrong and how to correct it.

Claiming no responsibility because the driver didn't process that in the seconds before impact is wrong.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
The claim isn't autonomy...it's stay in lane, and automatic lane changing.

His "self driving" stuff already is scary and he won't take responsibility for it claiming that the driver always has to be the ultimate authority.

In an industry with high levels of automation, the more automated you make a process, the less connected the operator is...then when something happens, they've got seconds to learn where they are in the process and identify what went wrong and how to correct it.

Claiming no responsibility because the driver didn't process that in the seconds before impact is wrong.


There are companies working on self-driving however. And I know that's eventually what Elon claims to be working toward as well.

https://www.wired.com/story/embark-self-driving-truck-deliveries/


There was a recent Canadian news article that I can't find now that indicated that we may see trials of self-driving trucks doing the border runs as soon as next year. Not sure how credible that is though.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


I suspect that in many places, the utility CANNOT provide it! The capacity simply is not there.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


And who will be paying for that infrastructure? I'm sure not going to pay for this pipe dream. It will take Trillions to go to an all electric fleet. As with most of this stuff the cost/benefit is not there. The best/cleanest/easiest way would be all nuclear but that brings its own huge set of problems.
Those that use it pay for it.


So Walmart is going to cut checks for tens/hundreds of millions to each generating facility and distribution company to beef up the infrastructure? As others have shown the solar stuff isn't practical on that scale.


More likely: Tesla and Walmart get fat subsidy checks and deeply-discounted rates, paid for by everyone ELSE using electricity!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
You think WalMarts warehouses run on extension cords or what? If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.


I suspect that in many places, the utility CANNOT provide it! The capacity simply is not there.


Locally, we have Quaker Oats. They have a hydro dam. Not sure as to the exact arrangement with the city, but basically, it's an ancient version of cogeneration, where the facility needed power, and so they got their own dam to provide it. I'd assume (and I could be wrong) that excess is sold to the city at a fixed rate and that would work both ways. But the point is that the facility doesn't need a massive tie-in because it generates on-site. This is the case for a lot of big consumers.

Another great example is the MASSIVE cement factory situated on the shores of Lake Ontario just outside of Oshawa. It sits DIRECTLY beside Darlington Nuclear. That's not a coincidence.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Musk's problem is not technological advancement. It's the calendar. There's no way in Hades he's going to do anything in the timeline he says he will, and never has done anything when he say he will.

2019 is going to come and go, and we'll be lucky to see the Model 3 meet deliveries, let alone an all electric semi. I'd bet on seeing a Moeller SkyCar first.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well what is your point?

That with the infrastructure and equipment we use today is not up to the task of tomorrow? Isn't that a given and said all along?

Or is it that the planned technology is just never going to be viable with future technology and equipment?

My point is that a lot of money has to be invested in a public infrastructure. When Shell opens a gas station, the public cost is minimal. The utilities hook up to the place with ordinary services, and it's done.

This is another matter altogether, and the infrastructure is nowhere near up to the task, it's not going to be user pay. The infrastructure is barely up to what we need now, let alone with this.

How do you get two of these chargers running in rural Saskatchewan 15 miles from any town? There are bulk stations like that; keep that in mind. What happens at Walmarts, as Shannow asked? How about the beer factory?

The solar power notion for these, too, is a ridiculous truckload of manure.

Yes, you're pointing out that certain businesses have high power demand - the blast furnace. But, those are not as common as these chargers will need to be. Look at the number of bulk stations in rural Saskatchewan. You'd never get SaskPower onside to provide you with the electricity for these at each bulk station, which would be useful, in fact, required, if these electric trucks are to be practical. Well, you'd get SaskPower onside, with some very, very large cheques given to them. It's totally different to get in a room with SaskPower, the city, and so forth, and plan a large electrical demand business from the ground up. Retrofitting a bulk station in rural Saskatchewan that has no more demand than two lights and a couple pumps into something running two of these chargers is another matter altogether.

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If Walmart wants power the utility will provide it.

Certainly. But you can't convert a Walmart to an Evraz facility overnight and have the utility just take care of things. There's a reason why there is something called zoning. The power company won't do it for free, either, and I bet the costs will be astronomical. The utility companies don't provide significantly more than what a customer is likely to need. Even a fairly minor expansion of one of my facilities required a great deal of effort and construction on the part of SaskPower and some rather large cheques written by me.

As Overkill pointed out, and I've stated a few times, you can't just convert a truck stop into a charging station without spending a lot of dollars. You're going to need the electrical infrastructure, and Musk's idea of running it straight off of solar is baloney. It's not going to happen. What does the Husky truck stop do on the east end of Regina? Bulldoze the entire neighborhood for solar cells? That's cost effective. How about the Shell stop out east, in a rural area. Take over all the farmland? Bulldoze the town?

You say those that use it pay for it. After all is said and done, what will you charge a truck to recharge for half an hour? Given some back of the envelope style calculations, I'm going to gather that at least around here, you wouldn't do it for under $10,000. Who's going to afford that?

Originally Posted By: Jaraxle
I suspect that in many places, the utility CANNOT provide it! The capacity simply is not there.

Yes, if they have trouble keeping the lights on as it is, this won't happen, unless someone wants to devote billions to generation, too, much less fix aging infrastructure and upgrade transmission.

Overkill: Cogeneration is great. We have had a couple examples here, with a couple historical ones, too. Unfortunately, few Walmarts and truck stops are built conveniently along a river and own their own hydroelectric dams.

 

[DoubleWasp]

The Muskologists refuse to believe that all of this is rapidly approaching a point of diminishing returns.

All of this makes about as much sense as a flying aircraft carrier.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
The Muskologists refuse to believe that all of this is rapidly approaching a point of diminishing returns.

All of this makes about as much sense as a flying aircraft carrier.

Wait a minute. They have FLYING aircraft carriers?

 

[SHOZ]

Well they said solar airplanes would never work too.

Here's some other companies besides Tesla developing electric trucks.

Mercedes-Benz To Compete With Tesla In Electric Semi Truck Segment

Daimler has announced that its Mercedes-Benz truck division will begin sales of an all-electric semi truck within the next five years.

This truck, called the Mercedes-Benz Urban eTruck, will have a range of 120 miles (NEDC) per charge and will be capable of hauling up to 26 tons of cargo. Batter capacity is listed at 212 kWh.

Cummins electric semi truck: traditional maker takes on Tesla

The well-established Cummins company chose an appropriate time to reveal its all-electric semi tractor concept: just before Tesla prepares to reveal its own electric semi next month.

The traditional diesel-engine maker debuted its Urban Hauler Tractor, a Class 7 semi truck with a 44,000-pound payload.

Notably, the company called the semi truck a concept that previews a production truck Cummins believes could arrive at the end of this decade.

Electric Semi Truck From MAN To Begin Testing This Year

MAN, the heavy truck division of Volkswagen, says it will begin testing an electric semi truck in cooperation with nine of Austria’s largest transportation companies and the Council for Sustainable Logistics before the end of 2017. The trucks will have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of between 12 and 26 tons. How they perform in medium- and heavy-duty service will provide feedback that will help MAN develop a larger portfolio of electric trucks for the future.

 

[SHOZ]

And here are the companies currently placing orders with Tesla

Global food distributor will add 50 Tesla Semi trucks to its fleet

The leading global foodservice distribution company, Sysco Corporation (NYSE:SYY), announced that it has placed an order for 50 Tesla Semi trucks as part of a commitment to reduce environmental impact for its operations.

“We are excited to begin the process of incorporating alternative-fuel trucks into our fleet,” said the company’s President and COO, Tom Bené.


Meijer among first to drive Tesla's highly anticipated electric semi truck

Meijer will be among the first companies to drive Tesla's first all-electric big truck rigs.

The Midwest retailer has ordered four trucks. The $5,000 down payment per vehicle gives the company the chance to be the first to test drive the trucks.

Walmart To Test Tesla’s New Electric Truck

Walmart is jumping onto Tesla’s electric tractor trailer truck bandwagon early with an announcement that it plans to test run the recently previewed, soon-to-be-released vehicles. Five of the pre-ordered vehicles will service Walmart U.S.; 10 will service Walmart in Canada.

Canadian grocery chain orders 25 Tesla electric Semi trucks

Tesla’s Semi is off to a promising start, despite there being no official pricing information available yet: In addition to a Walmart pilot, Canadian grocery giant Loblaw is purchasing 25 of the heavy duty all-electric transport trucks (via Canadian Press), with a $5,000 deposit for each upfront even though pricing is TBD for the vehicle, which is supposed to start shipping in 2019.

Tesla's truck, not out until 2019, already has orders

Tesla’s Electric Semi Truck Gets Orders From Wal-Mart and J.B. Hunt

 

[itguy08]

Great PR stunts on those companies. Make it look like you give a you know what, commit to orders publicly knowing the chances of you actually seeing the truck is near 0. And I'm sure those orders have tons of loopholes for the companies to get out of them should it be a debacle. You'll probably never hear how the trials or whatnot work out.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well they said solar airplanes would never work too.

You have seen the limitations, though, I gather.

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Here's some other companies besides Tesla developing electric trucks.

And If Dr. Z talked like Musk, his shareholders would have run him out of town on a rail.

 

[bigj_16]

They said nuclear powered airplanes would never work, either.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well they said solar airplanes would never work too.

You have seen the limitations, though, I gather.


It's the scaling that's always the issue. Look at the Solar Impulse 2, the one that did the around the world trip:

• Carried 2
• Wingspan as large as a 747
• Speed a blistering 30 MPH
• Unpressurized, cramped cabin
• Weird flight pattern (climb during the day, glide at night)
• Still used batteries

Sure it's cool to see but could you imagine trying to scale that to something useful for commercial flight?

Similar thing with electric cars.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well they said solar airplanes would never work too.

Here's some other companies besides Tesla developing electric trucks.

Mercedes-Benz To Compete With Tesla In Electric Semi Truck Segment

Daimler has announced that its Mercedes-Benz truck division will begin sales of an all-electric semi truck within the next five years.

This truck, called the Mercedes-Benz Urban eTruck, will have a range of 120 miles (NEDC) per charge and will be capable of hauling up to 26 tons of cargo. Batter capacity is listed at 212 kWh.

Cummins electric semi truck: traditional maker takes on Tesla

The well-established Cummins company chose an appropriate time to reveal its all-electric semi tractor concept: just before Tesla prepares to reveal its own electric semi next month.

The traditional diesel-engine maker debuted its Urban Hauler Tractor, a Class 7 semi truck with a 44,000-pound payload.

Notably, the company called the semi truck a concept that previews a production truck Cummins believes could arrive at the end of this decade.

Electric Semi Truck From MAN To Begin Testing This Year

MAN, the heavy truck division of Volkswagen, says it will begin testing an electric semi truck in cooperation with nine of Austria’s largest transportation companies and the Council for Sustainable Logistics before the end of 2017. The trucks will have a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of between 12 and 26 tons. How they perform in medium- and heavy-duty service will provide feedback that will help MAN develop a larger portfolio of electric trucks for the future.







I have to catch a flight to Monaco tomorrow. Where do I purchase my ticket to fly a solar airplane there?

Are you seriously comparing the reasonable claims of valid and established companies that actually build something useful and make money doing it to the outrageous and ridiculous claims by that Cornhole little outfit run by a James Bond villain?

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Well they said solar airplanes would never work too.


I have to catch a flight to Monaco tomorrow. Where do I purchase my ticket to fly a solar airplane there?

Are you seriously comparing the reasonable claims of valid and established companies that actually build something useful and make money doing it to the outrageous and ridiculous claims by that Cornhole little outfit run by a James Bond villain?


It was a simple statement.

Are you saying there will not be electric trucks?

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Are you saying there will not be electric trucks?


Back to the topic, away from your flights of fancy...look over there a bunny/solar plane.

2019 - that's the date
80,000lb capacity
500M range at 65MPH
30 minute recharge
at stations that power themselves with solar panels..."trucks running on the Sun"

That's the set of claims from Musk.

(Oh, and obviously enough mega chargers stations that you can use them for their intended purpose)

You are stating that you honestly believe that he's going to deliver all of that in under two years ?