Tesla Truck will need power of 4,000 homes!

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
One snake kills another … was not long ago there was big momentum for CNG … almost crickets now …

The one thing folks should agree on is efficient use of power … I was due an HVAC replacement … went to see if there were real incentives to go with a VFD system at twice the cost but much better energy rating …
Well if only I was doing wind, solar, or hydrogen it would be super …
I bought a middle of the road system …


I always wondered why CNG was heaped upon ?!??!??!

the joule density blows! Retrofit for auto use, and electricity production costs more than solar/eectric and current gen offerings

Its to local production and storage - thats the benny - How much matter if the infrastructure isnt there? Comprea electricity to NG- its light years ahead - but still behind oil

Hilariously we are being sent " conserve gas memos" in southern cal right now.



I think the "made in USA" sounded better than the reality and everyone caught on...



UD

 

[Shannow]

CNG NEARLY took off in Oz...here's what killed it.

Govt takes transport "sin taxes" excise on transport fuels.

Neighbours a few years ago had HVAC that ran on diesel. They had to sign and get certified annually that they had no diesel fuelled vehicles, so that they could be exempt on transport taxes (about $1.60/gal) on the diesel (same at the power station for supplementary ignition support oil)...IF the bought a diesel fuelled vehicle, then they had to pay the transport excise on every litre that they bought, including what went into the HVAC.

Now with CNG, Honda had a really handy home set up, and a couple other companies were ready to press play as well.

Until the Govt decided that the same transport excises applied...you had to pay excise on the gas that went both into the car AND the balance that went into the HVAC, Cooking and Hot water.

It died instantly.

And everyone should expect that when EV penetration is sufficient that they can see the dent appear in the finances, it will be treated the same way.

 

[4WD]

Yes … fixed ICE generators are dogs on it … guess it spins up turbines fine … a plant near here just doubled machines …

Where the US is exposed is so much of it depends on fracking shale … I’m not worried about the technology being unsafe _ quar gum, sand, water etc … And it’s regulated and it’s expensive and has to wind up in the right place to work … but if banned? Here we go again …

 

[4WD]

I was reading about all the LNG exports in Oz, all the anti HC push … seems before there was a viable homegrown replacement … put in the wrong hands it can happen in a town near me …

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
I was reading about all the LNG exports in Oz, all the anti HC push … seems before there was a viable homegrown replacement … put in the wrong hands it can happen in a town near me …


It's barmy...2013-2014, I was the plant efficiency engineer, and had access to lots of data on the gas system, and who was using it. (Oz had carbon tax at that point).

Anyway, the combined cycle plants were doing very well on $4.50/GJ natural gas, and a burgeoning export market was just about to happen.

With the exports, the wholesale gas price is now $10.50/GJ...

Oz actually had gas plants close down (stanwell) , as they could sell their gas rights for more than their margin on electricity. Others started budgeting their consumption, and plant life consumption such that they saved their gas for high market days (and cycled their plant heavily).

In the meantime, the "green" states banned not only fracking, but conventional wells, driving up the prices, as the more expensive wells could never come on line...the greenest of the states nearly ran out of diesel as they fueled their peakers on THAT due to gas prices/shortages.

It's a debacle.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I was reading about all the LNG exports in Oz, all the anti HC push … seems before there was a viable homegrown replacement … put in the wrong hands it can happen in a town near me …


It's barmy...2013-2014, I was the plant efficiency engineer, and had access to lots of data on the gas system, and who was using it. (Oz had carbon tax at that point).

Anyway, the combined cycle plants were doing very well on $4.50/GJ natural gas, and a burgeoning export market was just about to happen.

With the exports, the wholesale gas price is now $10.50/GJ...

Oz actually had gas plants close down (stanwell) , as they could sell their gas rights for more than their margin on electricity. Others started budgeting their consumption, and plant life consumption such that they saved their gas for high market days (and cycled their plant heavily).

In the meantime, the "green" states banned not only fracking, but conventional wells, driving up the prices, as the more expensive wells could never come on line...the greenest of the states nearly ran out of diesel as they fueled their peakers on THAT due to gas prices/shortages.

It's a debacle.


Thanks for sharing … folks need to watch for these kinds of things because it’s a game changer to just go a few hours or days without power … and we expect it 24x365 for cheap …

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
CNG NEARLY took off in Oz...here's what killed it.

Govt takes transport "sin taxes" excise on transport fuels.

Neighbours a few years ago had HVAC that ran on diesel. They had to sign and get certified annually that they had no diesel fuelled vehicles, so that they could be exempt on transport taxes (about $1.60/gal) on the diesel (same at the power station for supplementary ignition support oil)...IF the bought a diesel fuelled vehicle, then they had to pay the transport excise on every litre that they bought, including what went into the HVAC.

Now with CNG, Honda had a really handy home set up, and a couple other companies were ready to press play as well.

Until the Govt decided that the same transport excises applied...you had to pay excise on the gas that went both into the car AND the balance that went into the HVAC, Cooking and Hot water.

It died instantly.

And everyone should expect that when EV penetration is sufficient that they can see the dent appear in the finances, it will be treated the same way.


Amazing how that that works huh....the tax man cometh regardless.

in the "Good ole US Of A " Farmers can still buy "red" diesel - same stuff with with red dye devoid of road taxes.
Find a good old diesel genset - it becomes cost effective to the grid in many cases and certainly not worth running any new lines to a new remote location.
gotta swear and promise and all that...

Propane enjoys the same status tax free status in most place - as a power sources its popular among rv'er despite only 20% better density than NG.

Its always going to be hard to charge you for what the grid can't measure though - but go rogue - there go all subsidies (bennie / whatever) you can make a moderate amount these days if you have some space.

I know guys that convert their gensets to NG "so when the big one hits they can power their place" - laughable to think they will still have flow and pressure.

UD

 

[Shannow]

Farmers/miners here buy diesel at retail then claim the taxes back for the off road used portion.... Same difference, but no red dye.

As to converting gen sets...no longer worth it.

Gas is 4.4c/MJ
Unleaded including tax is 4.1
Diesel, including tax is 3.9

Its got me seriously considering what makes sense....

Retires in town are going back to solid fuel (coal and wood) for two reasons.
1) apparent cost...
2) they have visible fuel reserves, and can budget their use.

Coal... Yep nearly free, but horrid... But bill shock seems to be their main driver

 

[andyd]

In MA road diesel is taxed and heating oil is dyed red and not taxed. You get caught with red fuel, its a felony.

 

[97prizm]

I don't buy that 1.6MW is 3-4000 homes but maybe....

I do think that hybrids would benefit heavy trucks in the long run, especially garbage, delivery, and similar trucks that start and stop. Electric tractors like the one in discussion may be useful for inner city and high traffic areas where idling and starting/stopping/varying load diesels contribute to pollution.

I can't see that this is a solution for most mainstream OTR trucking. I haven't read enough to see that it's definitely being sold that way. 400 miles could be six hours of interstate or a couple days of local deliveries at far lower average speed.

High low end electric torque, smaller engines, and electric braking might benefit OTR trucking as well, as battery and power electronics densify, but I'll believe that when I see it.

I think Peterbilt has a hybrid electric semi. I haven't seen much posted about it.