Talk Some Sense into an Oil Thickie?

Are there a lot of non synthetic A5/B5 rated oils? My point is that if you're running an oil with that rating, then it's not an oil quality or economics issue. Mexico may tend to be warmer on average, but 0 degrees C in Mexico is the same as 0 degrees C in the US.

I'd believe the US recommendations more if they varied over the temperature range or use case, allowing for the fact that not all operating conditions are the same. Instead they say 0W-20 and nothing else, in all temperatures, in all applications, all the time, no matter what.

These CAFE oil requirements feel like the old 55 mph national speed limit. Yes, trained engineers did studies on the freeways they'd built, applying scientific principles to determine the optimum travel speeds with which to set speed limits. Then politicians came in and threw out the studies. They replaced it with "55 sounds safe, so you can never, ever, under any circumstances go faster than that."

The world is too varied and too complex to be regulated by these kinds of one size fits all policies.
55 wasn't about safe it was about saving fuel.
 
*What about say a Hyundai 2.4L GDI Theta II spec'd for 5W20 - yet has a known engine bearing problem with the result being a lot of Hyundai service centers and do it yourself oil changers switched to 5W30 ?
 
*What about say a Hyundai 2.4L GDI Theta II spec'd for 5W20 - yet has a known engine bearing problem with the result being a lot of Hyundai service centers and do it yourself oil changers switched to 5W30 ?
That particular engine was probably not engineered to to make use of xW20 viscosity oil. Knowing Hyundai they probably specified it because Toyota specified too.
 
That particular engine was probably not engineered to to make use of xW20 viscosity oil. Knowing Hyundai they probably specified it because Toyota specified too.
Toyota and all the rest of them. It comes down to needing to follow suit whether or not the engine has the ability to hold up or not.

In that Honda 1.5L turbo I would be using a 0w30 Euro oil (non resource conserving) oil while monitoring for changes in how it sounds at idle and while pulling hard and of course watch for any consumption or odd driving behaviours. A standard (synthetic) 5w30 would only make me feel better while its still newer and I would watch out for sheering and or fuel dilution towards the end of the OCI.

Having owned a high reving Honda which I ultimately let go of for having a still running but worn out engine, I wish I could go back in time and do all of my oil changes with a 30 or even 40 that held up under extreme conditions (euro). I feel the resource conserving stuff failed me even while doing -all changes adhering to the severe schedule. the engine is still running today, but it’s a check the gas fill the oil kind of car now at 160k miles.
 
Just an update on the Honda L15CA: I've changed oil at 1,000 miles with M1 Extended Performance 5W-30, again at 4,554 miles with M1 0W-30, and just recently at 9,033 miles with more M1 0W-30.

Over all three OCIs there has been almost zero movement of the oil level on the dipstick. So unless fuel dilution perfectly offsets oil consumption, this engine seems to be pretty happy on synthetic 30 weights, at least with regards to oil consumption.
 
Just an update on the Honda L15CA: I've changed oil at 1,000 miles with M1 Extended Performance 5W-30, again at 4,554 miles with M1 0W-30, and just recently at 9,033 miles with more M1 0W-30.

Over all three OCIs there has been almost zero movement of the oil level on the dipstick. So unless fuel dilution perfectly offsets oil consumption, this engine seems to be pretty happy on synthetic 30 weights, at least with regards to oil consumption.


Or, the engine has broken in and the grade of the oil had no bearing on fuel dilution.
 
Just an update on the Honda L15CA: I've changed oil at 1,000 miles with M1 Extended Performance 5W-30, again at 4,554 miles with M1 0W-30, and just recently at 9,033 miles with more M1 0W-30.

Over all three OCIs there has been almost zero movement of the oil level on the dipstick. So unless fuel dilution perfectly offsets oil consumption, this engine seems to be pretty happy on synthetic 30 weights, at least with regards to oil consumption.
Glad your engine is happy.

I’ve been running 5w20 in the turbo 1.5 Fusion from day one. My engine has been pensive and somewhat melancholy.
 
Can you talk some sense into me? I recently bought a 2023 Acura Integra, basically Acura's version of the Civic Si. I've got 900 miles on it and am thinking of doing the first oil change this weekend. I just can't wrap my mind around using 0W-20 in a turbocharged engine that will see a lot of high revs.

I joined this site in 2003 and always watched the 20 weight debates from afar. This is the first time I've ever had to run a 20 weight, now I'm conflicted! I know that millions of engines have lived long and productive lives on 0W-20, and that this Honda L15CA may have been designed with 0W-20 in mind. But I also know that I will drive this harder than a typical commuter, and that the EPA requires them to state that only 0W-20 should be used, regardless of what the engineers would prefer, and that thicker oils are specified in other markets that don't have this EPA requirement.

As of right now I'm planning to find a fully synthetic SP rated 0W-30, with the highest HTHS and lowest NOACK numbers I can find. Am I crazy?
Yes you are you can void the warranty
And then you are screwed.
That guy is probably smarter than the majority of people here.
 
Yes you are you can void the warranty
And then you are screwed.
That guy is probably smarter than the majority of people here.

Has anyone seen a statement in any OM that says the warranty will be void if the "recommended" oil is not used? I haven't. Why do so many OMs in other countries call out a whole range of recommended oil viscosity (most know the answer - no CAFE). Why does every motorcycle OM in the US call out a range of oil viscosity - again, CAFE doesn't apply to motorcycles. EE guy hasn't said anything enlightening beyond what's been discussed on BITOG a thousand times. There's a reason GM "recommends" a 0W-40 for the C8 Vette ... and it's not for fuel economy.

He says there is no "metal-to-metal" contact in an engine (except at start-up) ... but most here know that's an untrue exaggeration. There certainly is a degree of metal-to-metal contact in mixed and boundary lubrication, which a lot of parts in an engine experience. All engines wear, and with thinner oil and less MOFT, then the wear rate can certainly be higher. Towards the end of the video he basically says running a higher KV100 will not cause any problems ... we know higher KV100/HTHS gives more MOFT between moving parts and therefore more protection from wear.
 
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You need to think specifically about your engine, all these general debates do not apply to you. Your fuel dilution will be 3-4%, viscosity will drop. If you put 0w30, in few thousand miles it will look like 0w20. Honda turbo GDI engines are fuel diluters, so you need more frequent oil changes and higher viscosity to compensate for viscosity drop.
 
Has anyone seen a statement in any OM that says the warranty will be void if the "recommended" oil is not used?
That is correct. My acura RDX manual says 0w-20 is recommended, nowhere it says that “failure to use recommended oil will result in mechanical issues not covered by your warranty. If I am wrong, can some post exact language for 2.0t Honda engine manual that says any other viscosity will result in issues not covered by warranty?
 
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Yes you are you can void the warranty
And then you are screwed.
That guy is probably smarter than the majority of people here.
You void the warranty by using an oil that damages the engine, that’s what a warranty is predicated upon. No oil with a somewhat higher HT/HS is going to damage the engine. MOFT protects, not damages. People need to stop the baseless fear mongering about warranty and deal with facts, not more unfounded misconceptions.
 
You void the warranty by using an oil that damages the engine, that’s what a warranty is predicated upon. No oil with a somewhat higher HT/HS is going to damage the engine. MOFT protects, not damages. People need to stop the baseless fear mongering about warranty and deal with facts, not more unfounded misconceptions.
Guess you didn’t watch the video. And I know for a fact because some of my family members work in dealerships. People bring in their cars because there’s an issue with their engine and since it’s under warranty they do send in an oil sample to verify that it was the correct specification. And when it’s not. Sorry you violated the warranty you’re not covered. So that’s not fear mongering. But by all means try and be smarter than the people who designed both the engine and the oil.
 
Guess you didn’t watch the video. And I know for a fact because some of my family members work in dealerships. People bring in their cars because there’s an issue with their engine and since it’s under warranty they do send in an oil sample to verify that it was the correct specification. And when it’s not. Sorry you violated the warranty you’re not covered. So that’s not fear mongering. But by all means try and be smarter than the people who designed both the engine and the oil.
How would they verify the oil has the correct specification? The oil isn't being sent to SWRI to see if it passes a specific sequence.

Dealerships send in the oil to get analyzed to determine if:
1. The proper viscosity was used (IE, you aren't using 20W-50)
2. The oil was run at a sane interval; that the oil was in fact changed and the vehicle properly maintained
3. The oil has a normal looking additive package. So you aren't using ND30 for example or City Star.

They aren't trying to determine if you used Castrol or Mobil in the same grade because only the Castrol product had the WS-xxxxx OE approval. They want to confirm that the oil was changed in a timely manner and with a product appropriate for the application.

Only exception I can think of is the UV dye used by one of the marques in their factory service fill, think it's Jaguar?
 
Guess you didn’t watch the video. And I know for a fact because some of my family members work in dealerships. People bring in their cars because there’s an issue with their engine and since it’s under warranty they do send in an oil sample to verify that it was the correct specification. And when it’s not. Sorry you violated the warranty you’re not covered. So that’s not fear mongering. But by all means try and be smarter than the people who designed both the engine and the oil.
If I don't believe that you won't hold it against me, will you?

Sending in a sample to verify a specification was my first clue, as was also noted by Overkill. I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about here.
 
How would they verify the oil has the correct specification? The oil isn't being sent to SWRI to see if it passes a specific sequence.

Dealerships send in the oil to get analyzed to determine if:
1. The proper viscosity was used (IE, you aren't using 20W-50)
2. The oil was run at a sane interval; that the oil was in fact changed and the vehicle properly maintained
3. The oil has a normal looking additive package. So you aren't using ND30 for example or City Star.

They aren't trying to determine if you used Castrol or Mobil in the same grade because only the Castrol product had the WS-xxxxx OE approval. They want to confirm that the oil was changed in a timely manner and with a product appropriate for the application.

Only exception I can think of is the UV dye used by one of the marques in their factory service fill, think it's Jaguar?
Devils Advocate: Couldn’t the dealer simply ask for the oil change records to verify oil changes were done timely and with properly spec’d oil/filter? I’m no Rocket Surgeon but would seem way more straight forward and definitive.

* This is predicated on the notion that oil damaged the engine and the dealer suspected such. Which I don’t think either would happen. Again, devils advocate.
 
Guess you didn’t watch the video. And I know for a fact because some of my family members work in dealerships. People bring in their cars because there’s an issue with their engine and since it’s under warranty they do send in an oil sample to verify that it was the correct specification. And when it’s not. Sorry you violated the warranty you’re not covered. So that’s not fear mongering. But by all means try and be smarter than the people who designed both the engine and the oil.

This is BS. 0w30 in my car will produce viscosity of 0w20 due to oil dilution using oil analysis. Second, in my manual it only says “recommend” 0w20, what legal grounds they would have to dismiss the warranty if owner manual recommends but not requires?
 
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