Talk Some Sense into an Oil Thickie?

wlk

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Can you talk some sense into me? I recently bought a 2023 Acura Integra, basically Acura's version of the Civic Si. I've got 900 miles on it and am thinking of doing the first oil change this weekend. I just can't wrap my mind around using 0W-20 in a turbocharged engine that will see a lot of high revs.

I joined this site in 2003 and always watched the 20 weight debates from afar. This is the first time I've ever had to run a 20 weight, now I'm conflicted! I know that millions of engines have lived long and productive lives on 0W-20, and that this Honda L15CA may have been designed with 0W-20 in mind. But I also know that I will drive this harder than a typical commuter, and that the EPA requires them to state that only 0W-20 should be used, regardless of what the engineers would prefer, and that thicker oils are specified in other markets that don't have this EPA requirement.

As of right now I'm planning to find a fully synthetic SP rated 0W-30, with the highest HTHS and lowest NOACK numbers I can find. Am I crazy?
If you want a thick 30 weight run PP Euro l 5w30, great oil.
 
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I'm a thickie when I want to be. I have nothing against thick or thin oils, because if you're not keep a vehicle to 150K+, it probably won't make a bit of difference. When I dumped my factory fill, I did some blending because I had 5 quarts of 0W-16 that was to go in the Venza. Beings its summer and a Hotter than Haites one at that, I figure It will be OK till my December 1st oil change. See the blend in my signature. I wonder what viscosity I ended up with.
 

ZeeOSix

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I'm a thickie when I want to be. I have nothing against thick or thin oils, because if you're not keep a vehicle to 150K+, it probably won't make a bit of difference. When I dumped my factory fill, I did some blending because I had 5 quarts of 0W-16 that was to go in the Venza. Beings its summer and a Hotter than Haites one at that, I figure It will be OK till my December 1st oil change. See the blend in my signature. I wonder what viscosity I ended up with.
Calculate the frankenbrew mix viscosity with this.

 

TiGeo

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I'm a thickie when I want to be. I have nothing against thick or thin oils, because if you're not keep a vehicle to 150K+, it probably won't make a bit of difference. When I dumped my factory fill, I did some blending because I had 5 quarts of 0W-16 that was to go in the Venza. Beings its summer and a Hotter than Haites one at that, I figure It will be OK till my December 1st oil change. See the blend in my signature. I wonder what viscosity I ended up with.
It probably won't make a difference if you do keep your vehicle over 150K.
 

FZ1

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Where are you getting those density numbers?

For comparison, Valvoline EP 0W-20 has a density of 0.844.

Assuming that your decimal is misplaced, there is absolutely no way you can tell the difference between those two oils.

🎹 🎹
...........Or, have you noticed, on cold morning, initial, starts, the the oil "feels" a little, what can I say, "thicker" than subsequent starts on a fully warmed engine?
 
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ZeeOSix

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...........Or, have you noticed, on cold morning, initial, starts, the the oil "feels" a little, what can I say, "thicker" than subsequent starts on a fully warmed engine?
Of course, because if the engine is still warm, so is the oil which means the oil's viscosity is lower.
 

Palut

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Jump from 20 to 30 should be fine. When you say you are a thickie I thought you are gonna put something with xW-40 in lol
I'm borderline there! Still have several jugs of 0W-40 from my last car.

I feel more certain after downloading the factory service manual. US models get only 0W-20 no matter what, while Mexico gets 0W-20 through 5W-30, ACEA A5/B5 rated oil.

Given the ACEA rating requirement in Mexico, it seems to me that it's not about mandating higher viscosity to make up for low oil quality issues in Mexico. It's more of a government mandate issue in the States.
 

ZeeOSix

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^^^ Manufacterers in the USA don't have to follow CAFE if they don't want to, but it will cost them millions of dollars in fines if the can't meet the ever increasing fleet fuel economy targets. Manufacturers naturally want to design and build vehicles that get the best fuel mileage as possible because it's attractive to buyers to get good fuel economy, especially as fuel keeps going up and up. So that natural goal helps them also meet CAFE targets.

Ford went from 5W-20 back to 5W-30 in the Coyote V8, and it sure wasn't because of CAFE. It was most likely to increase the protection and reliability of those engines ... why else would they increase viscosity, the main factor in tribology that keeps moving parts separated and rubbing on each other.
 
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did some blending because I had 5 quarts of 0W-16 that was to go in the Venza. Beings its summer and a Hotter than Haites one at that, I figure It will be OK till my December 1st oil change. See the blend in my signature. I wonder what viscosity I ended up with.
I see no jugs of 0w/16 on the shelf of m walmart. As for 0w/16 qts there...I don't look at qt bottles, I go jug or go home.

Okay, i just looked at your sig:
2022 Ford Maverick XLT Hybrid w/Lux pkg-
4 qt Mobil 1 0W-16 & 1.5 qt Mobil 1 0W-40 FS Euro Formula - Motorcraft FL-910s filter

FULL SAPs in modern catalyst? Bold move there Cotton! You're a frankenbrewin savage!

1658396220680.png


Why not just pour in a jug of Mobil 1 0w-20 EP and then ash your cigarette once over the fill port and be done with it?
Try 12,000 miles next time.
 
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Jackson_Slugger

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I'm borderline there! Still have several jugs of 0W-40 from my last car.

The problem isn't the viscosity as much as it's a full SAPs oil not suited to most emissions systems...

I feel more certain after downloading the factory service manual. US models get only 0W-20 no matter what, while Mexico gets 0W-20 through 5W-30, ACEA A5/B5 rated oil.

Given the ACEA rating requirement in Mexico, it seems to me that it's not about mandating higher viscosity to make up for low oil quality issues in Mexico. It's more of a government mandate issue in the States.

Again with the 'false equivalence'. In Mexico getting 0W-20 full syn is both expensive and difficult as it isn't even sold at many of their main outlets. The vast majority of cars get "conventional" 5W-30 as their thin oil and everything else is scarce. It's not a "gubertment mandate" issue, it's simple economics explicated by our first world problems of "CAFE" and thick vs. thin narratives for the cars one likely trades-in or sells well before 100K on the odometer anyways....
 
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Again with the 'false equivalence'. In Mexico getting 0W-20 full syn is both expensive and difficult as it isn't even sold at many of their main outlets. The vast majority of cars get "conventional" 5W-30 as their thin oil and everything else is scarce. It's not a "gubertment mandate" issue, it's simple economics explicated by our first world problems of "CAFE" and thick vs. thin narratives for the cars one likely trades-in or sells well before 100K on the odometer anyways....
It is indeed a mandate issue, not that there is a "gubertment" law or rule other than that's the oil used to certify the fuel economy figures here in the US and is subsequently required to be forcefully promoted in the owner's manual (as well as other places). If you read any of the CAFE award letters you will see just how stringently the manufacturer is required to word their recommendations.

It's not false equivalency, other grades will work just fine. Or better.
 
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Okay, i just looked at your sig:
2022 Ford Maverick XLT Hybrid w/Lux pkg-
4 qt Mobil 1 0W-16 & 1.5 qt Mobil 1 0W-40 FS Euro Formula - Motorcraft FL-910s filter

FULL SAPs in modern catalyst? Bold move there Cotton! You're a frankenbrewin savage!

View attachment 108955

Why not just pour in a jug of Mobil 1 0w-20 EP and then ash your cigarette once over the fill port and be done with it?
Try 12,000 miles next time.
In a 30% scenario I doubt it will cause any problems. Plus this will only be an issue if it uses oil, which it is not. No GDI here and no turbos. I do like the enhanced quietness of the engine though. No effect on MPG's on this tank which is the first since changing. Waiting for the :poop: to fly. Fan is turned off.
 

Jackson_Slugger

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It is indeed a mandate issue, not that there is a "gubertment" law or rule other than that's the oil used to certify the fuel economy figures here in the US and is subsequently required to be forcefully promoted in the owner's manual (as well as other places). If you read any of the CAFE award letters you will see just how stringently the manufacturer is required to word their recommendations.

It's not false equivalency, other grades will work just fine. Or better.

I was talking more in terms of why weights are different in other regions, like Mexico. Availability and economics are different and the markets in Mexico and the US cannot be compared apples-to-apples...
 

Palut

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Are there a lot of non synthetic A5/B5 rated oils? My point is that if you're running an oil with that rating, then it's not an oil quality or economics issue. Mexico may tend to be warmer on average, but 0 degrees C in Mexico is the same as 0 degrees C in the US.

I'd believe the US recommendations more if they varied over the temperature range or use case, allowing for the fact that not all operating conditions are the same. Instead they say 0W-20 and nothing else, in all temperatures, in all applications, all the time, no matter what.

These CAFE oil requirements feel like the old 55 mph national speed limit. Yes, trained engineers did studies on the freeways they'd built, applying scientific principles to determine the optimum travel speeds with which to set speed limits. Then politicians came in and threw out the studies. They replaced it with "55 sounds safe, so you can never, ever, under any circumstances go faster than that."

The world is too varied and too complex to be regulated by these kinds of one size fits all policies.
 
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