edyvw
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I reviewed HPL mono grades some times ago. Their CCS and MRV tells a lot.
Shear ?
- Thread starter Exhaustgases
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It could be labeled as 15W, as tested by HPL.
Yes, one is full synthetic and the other is conventional. Would you drive even with the full synthetic if the temp. is below 32°F?
Pour point don't have much in common with CCS and MRV. A liquid may be pourable at certain temp. but not well pumpable, especially through a paper (synthetic media) oil filter.
What this diesel fuel additives video. Tod says after 12:50 that even the diesel fuel is in completely low viscosity liquid form (because of the fuel additive) it will still clog the fuel filter because it has reach a cloud form.
However, those are missing for SAE30 and SAE40. (2nd page of the PDF)
So what that tells you?
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
The entire no-VII series are by definition monogrades, which includes a 5W-30 (SAE 30).
Yep. Four different SAE 30 oils. Plus, the "regular" SAE30 (15W-30)
Exactly.
It’s not “well pumpable” it’s either pumpable or not.
And driving has little to do with it, it’s about starting. If the oil can be pumped it will flow, and it will very quickly warm up during driving past the initial thickness. Thicker oil warms up faster than thinner oil.
Exactly, that's why there is no values for CCS and MRV for SAE30 and SAE40 on the above PDF.
That makes me think they don't satisfy those tests.
What is that definition when they have two numbers as viscosity (which makes them multigrade) and they have different CCS and MRV?
What definition makes all no-VII oils monograde?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
CCS and MRV don't apply to monogrades, they are only present on an oils that claim a Winter grade:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
There's an entire thread about it that I've authored and is a sticky on this section, please give it a read. Here's the link:
When you buy a quantity of oil, probably the first thing you look for is the SAE grade. But what do these numbers represent; what do they mean? In this post we will explore the fundamentals of SAE J300, which is the standard under which these grades are defined and often a point of considerable confusion.
At its simplest, a multigrade oil is identified by two numbers:
1. The Winter grade, this is the number BEFORE the W
2. The SAE grade, this is the number AFTER the W
These numbers are not related.
Both numbers (grades) represent clearly defined ranges, outlined as...
At its simplest, a multigrade oil is identified by two numbers:
1. The Winter grade, this is the number BEFORE the W
2. The SAE grade, this is the number AFTER the W
These numbers are not related.
Both numbers (grades) represent clearly defined ranges, outlined as...
Because a monograde is an oil with no VII polymers in it.
So, in general SAE30 and 40 grades are not designed for temp. below 32F, but those HPL grades are good for the winter because they are full synthetic and have pour point at -45C?
Why don't you drive in the winter then with SAE40 oil instead of 15W-40?
O.K. Thanks!
I'll definitely read that thread. I'll hope to understand how winter rated oil is still a monorade.
There’s no set temperature for monograde suitability. So it’s not the case that they aren’t designed for temps below 32F. But it’s only because, again, they aren’t tested or validated to colder temps.
And because the cold temps are completely unregulated, you can have a huge disparity in cold weather performance even between “the same” grades.
I’m working toward SAE 40 year round for my car, since you’re asking. I’ll be blending 15w and straight SAE 40 next OCI and doing some informal cold winter flow comparison.
ANd yes, pouring cold out of the bottle isn’t the same as pumping. But it’s actually harder than pumping, so if it flows when only under gravity, it will pump just fine. The concern when cold isn’t pumpability, it’s having your oil pump suck air because the pan oil can’t flow to the pickup as fast as it is sucked up. This fail mode is exactly why CCS and MRV both exist in the J300 spec. MRV was added later and it’s at a 5c colder temp. This is designed to assure that any oil that can meet the CCS grade can never have the “suck air in the pickup tube” fail mode.
Given the tremendous margin I’ve experienced in the cold with HPL’s 15w formula, I’m going to explore their SAE 40 in my quest to have both higher HTHS and the minimum possible VII that works for my region.
VII absence doesn’t make an oil monograde. A monograde is any oil that simply didn’t pass the “w” tests, either because it couldn’t pass or because it was never tested. An oil might have no VII because it’s monograde, but it’s not monograde because it has no VII. The causality runs only one direction.
Most companies marketing a monograde have no reason to test them because monograde buyers won’t give them any credit for also meeting 20w or 15w. This is the same reason monogrades tend to have the lowest VI base stocks around— there’s no cold testing to rat them out as being inferior. You have to know a bit about oil to realize a monograde is seen as a massive cost savings opportunity most of the time and thus it’s base oils are the cheapest around.
HPL’s monogrades simply aren’t tested and characterized to the full MRV and CCS performance. That’s not the same as saying they wouldn’t meet some “w” grade if tested. And also because HPL doesn’t see monograde as a chance to cut corners, their monogrades are a uniquely premium product that still uses the highest quality base oil blends. It just happens to have no VII and no be tested at the cold check points.
Comparing the 20w-50 HPL PCMO and their SAE 40 of the same line, it quite clear to me that their SAE 40 would almost certainly meet 20w if tested and would be quite a bit thinner than their 20w-50.
So you could think of their 20w-50 as the SAE 40 with some small amount of VII in it to thicken more when hot. The difference in viscosity index between their 20w-50 and SAE 40 is quite small— 117 vs 125. Both are quite low VI oils. Do note that these two oils share identical pour points and nearly identical (and high) density values. That’s a clear indicator of significant AN and ester content and little to no VII.
VIIs are much lower density parts of the oil blend, so it’s all but impossible to hit the 0.89 density range with a typical 5w-40 oil that has a lot of polymer load in it. The high density of these PCMO monogrades is a nod not only to having no VII, but also to the “heavy” esters in the base oil blend, perhaps something like Esterex NP451,which is very heavy at 0.993 density!
How are cold temp. not regulated - what do you mean? CCS and MVR are part of the 300J as you mentioned.
The oil quantity in a car's engine is designed that always have at least 2 quarts or 50% of the oil (just guessing) in the oil pan, so oil pick up never starves for oil.
How your oil pump will suck air when the oil quantity is the same for both summer and winter?
My biggest concern is how easily a thicker oil (even it can be poured at certain temp.) will go through the pick up strainer, paper oil filter, VVT strainers and any other small passages inside the engine.
Both water and honey are pourable at 40F. Guess which one is flowing faster hence pumped better.
CCS and MRV don’t apply to monogrades. Plain enough, right?
They will not be using 15W-40, in a cruise ship engine nor a Wartsilla RTA, they cost more into the 10 Million range and the RTA? likely as much as a large Jet engine, I think 50 to 100 million range.
The diesel fuel goes cloudy at about 5°F because it has large amounts of paraffin in it. Motor oil also contain paraffins to some degree. Even oils can withstand much lower temp. than diesel fuel - paraffins are paraffins.