Substantive differences between brake rotors
- Thread starter David_Corbett
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by HangFire
In all cases though, they have to meet the OEM runout spec for the given application.
Should meet, but not "have to meet". Who is checking them ? OEMs don't "approve" aftermarket parts.
Point taken. I've returned a couple of rotors that were out of spec, but that's been a while. 15-20 years or so.
Originally Posted by HangFire
In all cases though, they have to meet the OEM runout spec for the given application.
Should meet, but not "have to meet". Who is checking them ? OEMs don't "approve" aftermarket parts.
Point taken. I've returned a couple of rotors that were out of spec, but that's been a while. 15-20 years or so.
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
I have been baffled by EBC's rotor descriptions as well. I've used the USR slotted rotors many times and BSD slotted twice as well as their more generic Ultimax(?) non-slotted. I had good luck with the USR slotted. The BSD slotted seemed to last well, but I had noise issues between them and the Stoptech Street performance pads I usually use. Could have been unrelated, could be related to the slot pattern, or possibly due to a material difference.
I've not has as good luck with Centric premium or the Centric cryo rotors (Stoptech?). OE performed better for me than the Centric. These particular experiences have been on two Infinitis that used the same diameter but different thickness rotors, so they could be totally irrelevant to Lexus rotors.
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
I have been baffled by EBC's rotor descriptions as well. I've used the USR slotted rotors many times and BSD slotted twice as well as their more generic Ultimax(?) non-slotted. I had good luck with the USR slotted. The BSD slotted seemed to last well, but I had noise issues between them and the Stoptech Street performance pads I usually use. Could have been unrelated, could be related to the slot pattern, or possibly due to a material difference.
I've not has as good luck with Centric premium or the Centric cryo rotors (Stoptech?). OE performed better for me than the Centric. These particular experiences have been on two Infinitis that used the same diameter but different thickness rotors, so they could be totally irrelevant to Lexus rotors.
I'm running the Centric Premium 125 High Carbon Cryo's front and Centric Premium 120 Cryo's rear on my 12x g37 with Akebono Street Performance pads (GG rated) and found the setup extremely effective for some additional stopping power along with long pad and rotor life with occasional spirited driving. I understand that Raybestos also offers a Cryo rotor and duel compound GG pad too but am unsure what models. It's hard to go wrong with Centric Premium's and Akebono.
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Thank you for your response.
OK, so what differentiates Brembo, ATE and Textar from Centric (et al)? Are all Brembo-branded products that good, or are only their famed Big Brake Kits and items for which they are the Original Equipment supplier good?
I say this because I bought some Brembo rotors for my wife's car from Canadian Tire; they were on sale and the alternatives, which were generally unbranded, were uniquely unappealing, but I had/have no real way of knowing whether they are of superior quality - though I will say that, running my finger across the rotor surface, they did seem quite smooth and well-finished.
I checked their respective catalogues and, sadly, neither ATE nor Textar nor Brembo manufactures brake rotors for my car.
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Thank you for your response.
OK, so what differentiates Brembo, ATE and Textar from Centric (et al)? Are all Brembo-branded products that good, or are only their famed Big Brake Kits and items for which they are the Original Equipment supplier good?
I say this because I bought some Brembo rotors for my wife's car from Canadian Tire; they were on sale and the alternatives, which were generally unbranded, were uniquely unappealing, but I had/have no real way of knowing whether they are of superior quality - though I will say that, running my finger across the rotor surface, they did seem quite smooth and well-finished.
I checked their respective catalogues and, sadly, neither ATE nor Textar nor Brembo manufactures brake rotors for my car.
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Originally Posted by edyvw
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Thank you for your response.
OK, so what differentiates Brembo, ATE and Textar from Centric (et al)? Are all Brembo-branded products that good, or are only their famed Big Brake Kits and items for which they are the Original Equipment supplier good?
I say this because I bought some Brembo rotors for my wife's car from Canadian Tire; they were on sale and the alternatives, which were generally unbranded, were uniquely unappealing, but I had/have no real way of knowing whether they are of superior quality - though I will say that, running my finger across the rotor surface, they did seem quite smooth and well-finished.
I checked their respective catalogues and, sadly, neither ATE nor Textar nor Brembo manufactures brake rotors for my car.
Considering you drive Lexus I thought you might have hard time finding these brands. I could not find anything for my Sienna except EBC. And my Sienna needs upgrade ASAP!
Brembo is supplier for BMW M models, Porsche, Ferrari etc. It is biggest supplier for Formula 1 etc. They are No. 1 performance manufacturer and arguably best one by far. It is quality of their products that goes back decades. I had them on BMW X5, worked great.
Textar is owned by German TMD and it is actually largest brake component manufacturer in the world after acquisition of Pagid (another famous German brand). ATE is owned by Continental and before TMD bought Pagid was largest brake component manufacturer. While your Lexus might not have ATE pads for example, there is big chance there is something in your car manufactured by ATE or TMD. Generally, wherever their products are made, they or of top quality.
Now, as for EBC. I had it on several occasions. Buy plain rotors. Do not get slotted or dimpled rotors (I had slotted, horrid noise after some time). They will make noise and honestly, there is no gain over plain ones. As for pads, do not go too far. I had Yellow Stuff on my VW CC. While capable pad, it takes time to warm up. So your cold performance might suffer. That is very important if you have school like I do 100 meters from home, as you want brakes to be always at their best. So, stick to either Red Stuff or Green Stuff pads. They work great cold. I had Red Stuff on CC and still have them on Tiguan paired with Brembo rotors. Works like a charm.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Thank you for your response.
OK, so what differentiates Brembo, ATE and Textar from Centric (et al)? Are all Brembo-branded products that good, or are only their famed Big Brake Kits and items for which they are the Original Equipment supplier good?
I say this because I bought some Brembo rotors for my wife's car from Canadian Tire; they were on sale and the alternatives, which were generally unbranded, were uniquely unappealing, but I had/have no real way of knowing whether they are of superior quality - though I will say that, running my finger across the rotor surface, they did seem quite smooth and well-finished.
I checked their respective catalogues and, sadly, neither ATE nor Textar nor Brembo manufactures brake rotors for my car.
Considering you drive Lexus I thought you might have hard time finding these brands. I could not find anything for my Sienna except EBC. And my Sienna needs upgrade ASAP!
Brembo is supplier for BMW M models, Porsche, Ferrari etc. It is biggest supplier for Formula 1 etc. They are No. 1 performance manufacturer and arguably best one by far. It is quality of their products that goes back decades. I had them on BMW X5, worked great.
Textar is owned by German TMD and it is actually largest brake component manufacturer in the world after acquisition of Pagid (another famous German brand). ATE is owned by Continental and before TMD bought Pagid was largest brake component manufacturer. While your Lexus might not have ATE pads for example, there is big chance there is something in your car manufactured by ATE or TMD. Generally, wherever their products are made, they or of top quality.
Now, as for EBC. I had it on several occasions. Buy plain rotors. Do not get slotted or dimpled rotors (I had slotted, horrid noise after some time). They will make noise and honestly, there is no gain over plain ones. As for pads, do not go too far. I had Yellow Stuff on my VW CC. While capable pad, it takes time to warm up. So your cold performance might suffer. That is very important if you have school like I do 100 meters from home, as you want brakes to be always at their best. So, stick to either Red Stuff or Green Stuff pads. They work great cold. I had Red Stuff on CC and still have them on Tiguan paired with Brembo rotors. Works like a charm.
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Centric makes the blanks for a large portion of the automotive brake market. Centric is a huge company with a variety of products. Their top of the line stuff is sold under the name stop tech. Even under the centric name they have different tiers. If you buy their $20 rotors expect [censored], but their good stuff is good. The stoptech sport pads in my opinion are excellent pads and I personally prefer them over 90% of "performance" pads on the market..
Great initial bite with virtually no fade when you push them hard. I'm talking about back to back 70-0mph stops until you get your brake fluid boiling. I've personally pushed a variety of pads to their limits and experimented with different brands. I wouldn't recommend any race compound because they won't brake well until they are hot. I've put the stoptech sports in a cl550, s430, gx470, a Subaru that does auto cross and those clients loved the brakes. They are one of the best pads if you don't plan on racing in my opinion;great cold and hot performance. Make sure you don't get it confused with the stoptech street though, that compound is a little bit different and will fade more at high temps. Currently using expensive [censored] hawk pads my self,but once they are done I'll be putting the stop techs on the truck too.
Great initial bite with virtually no fade when you push them hard. I'm talking about back to back 70-0mph stops until you get your brake fluid boiling. I've personally pushed a variety of pads to their limits and experimented with different brands. I wouldn't recommend any race compound because they won't brake well until they are hot. I've put the stoptech sports in a cl550, s430, gx470, a Subaru that does auto cross and those clients loved the brakes. They are one of the best pads if you don't plan on racing in my opinion;great cold and hot performance. Make sure you don't get it confused with the stoptech street though, that compound is a little bit different and will fade more at high temps. Currently using expensive [censored] hawk pads my self,but once they are done I'll be putting the stop techs on the truck too.
I understand that my brake calipers, and the system design itself, are ADVICS - 94% of their ownership is Aisin (51%), Denso (34%) and Toyota (9%). Aisin and Denso are themselves Toyota subsidiaries. I believe that ADVICS is probably also responsible for the pads.
Not sure on the rotors; they might be ADVICS too, or Aisin Takaoka (another Aisin sub), which Toyota seems to use heavily for rotors. In any case, they're definitely Made in Japan. Which suggests that the machining and finishing, at least, were done in Japan; no word on whether the castings are Japanese as well. I understand that there are no brake rotor foundries left in the United States, but I don't think that's the case in Japan.
I wish I had a Marklines subscription, because that'd tell me for sure, but unfortunately I signed up for my free trial a long time ago and then forgot to use it.
Not sure on the rotors; they might be ADVICS too, or Aisin Takaoka (another Aisin sub), which Toyota seems to use heavily for rotors. In any case, they're definitely Made in Japan. Which suggests that the machining and finishing, at least, were done in Japan; no word on whether the castings are Japanese as well. I understand that there are no brake rotor foundries left in the United States, but I don't think that's the case in Japan.
I wish I had a Marklines subscription, because that'd tell me for sure, but unfortunately I signed up for my free trial a long time ago and then forgot to use it.
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
I understand that my brake calipers, and the system design itself, are ADVICS - 94% of their ownership is Aisin (51%), Denso (34%) and Toyota (9%). Aisin and Denso are themselves Toyota subsidiaries. I believe that ADVICS is probably also responsible for the pads.
Not sure on the rotors; they might be ADVICS too, or Aisin Takaoka (another Aisin sub), which Toyota seems to use heavily for rotors. In any case, they're definitely Made in Japan. Which suggests that the machining and finishing, at least, were done in Japan; no word on whether the castings are Japanese as well. I understand that there are no brake rotor foundries left in the United States, but I don't think that's the case in Japan.
I wish I had a Marklines subscription, because that'd tell me for sure, but unfortunately I signed up for my free trial a long time ago and then forgot to use it.
Your pads might very easy be Akebono.
I understand that my brake calipers, and the system design itself, are ADVICS - 94% of their ownership is Aisin (51%), Denso (34%) and Toyota (9%). Aisin and Denso are themselves Toyota subsidiaries. I believe that ADVICS is probably also responsible for the pads.
Not sure on the rotors; they might be ADVICS too, or Aisin Takaoka (another Aisin sub), which Toyota seems to use heavily for rotors. In any case, they're definitely Made in Japan. Which suggests that the machining and finishing, at least, were done in Japan; no word on whether the castings are Japanese as well. I understand that there are no brake rotor foundries left in the United States, but I don't think that's the case in Japan.
I wish I had a Marklines subscription, because that'd tell me for sure, but unfortunately I signed up for my free trial a long time ago and then forgot to use it.
Your pads might very easy be Akebono.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Brembo aftermarket rotors are all made in china.
The Chinese rotor marketplace has changed in recent years. There are only several factories making rotors in China. Even the Textar/Akebono (WP exclusive)/Bosch Quietcast rotors are from china, and they are all packaged identically and look suspiciously identical.
In the US, Kiru and Advics are the only two companies that are building rotors of serious volume. And both of these companies are primarily supplying OEM's.
Most of the newer Toyota/Lexus vehicles are using Advics friction. Akebono and NBK are occasionally used on the rears.
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Brembo aftermarket rotors are all made in china.
The Chinese rotor marketplace has changed in recent years. There are only several factories making rotors in China. Even the Textar/Akebono (WP exclusive)/Bosch Quietcast rotors are from china, and they are all packaged identically and look suspiciously identical.
In the US, Kiru and Advics are the only two companies that are building rotors of serious volume. And both of these companies are primarily supplying OEM's.
Most of the newer Toyota/Lexus vehicles are using Advics friction. Akebono and NBK are occasionally used on the rears.
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Brembo aftermarket rotors are all made in china.
The Chinese rotor marketplace has changed in recent years. There are only several factories making rotors in China. Even the Textar/Akebono (WP exclusive)/Bosch Quietcast rotors are from china, and they are all packaged identically and look suspiciously identical.
In the US, Kiru and Advics are the only two companies that are building rotors of serious volume. And both of these companies are primarily supplying OEM's.
Most of the newer Toyota/Lexus vehicles are using Advics friction. Akebono and NBK are occasionally used on the rears.
I used Brembo on BMW, and have them on Tiguan. Both Made in Italy.
Maybe for some vehicles are Made in China.
Textar pads for Euro vehicles are Made in Romania, and rotors in Germany. Pagid is China. Whether some ATE or Textar are made in China is probable. In the end, as Tim Cook said, China now has much better trained vocational workforce than US.
For Japanese vehicles do not know.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by David_Corbett
Thanks for all the information so quickly, folks! I see that EBC rotors have come up a lot, and I wouldn't mind some assistance in working out exactly which grades of iron they are using. Their rotors seem to have a very good name and I would much rather buy a British-made product.
Depending on the source - and EBC seems to contradict itself frequently - there seems to be some inconsistency.
My expectation would be that EBC would cast its rotors blanks and then machine them differentially based on whether they were going to be RK blank, USR slotted, GD sport, or BSD blade-type slots. This would necessitate that they be generally made from the same sort of iron.
On its website, under product information, EBC states that its rotors are made from G3000 gray iron, which I understand is fairly typical. It refers to its RK blanks as being made from "highest specification grey iron". The USR page refers to all of its USR rotors - indeed, all of its rotors in general - as being made in the UK. However, the GD page it talks about a sister company in Italy and states that only 90% of the rotors are made in the UK or Italy. The GD page also says that *most*, not all, rotors were G3000 iron. The BSD rotor page goes back to stating that they are all made in the UK - and makes reference to a unique material known as 'Discalloy', whatever that is. Similar challenges emerge when trying to determine whether they use Geomet or "Nitrotherm" to coat their rotors.
Checking the catalogue gives no help, as it refers to rotors (this time the USR series) as being made of "special rotor alloys which are unique to EBC brakes", but on the same page cites that the blanks and BSD rotors are made from G3000 gray iron.
The stockists are similarly confusing; Canada's "PartsEngine.ca" declares the BSDs to be 100% British made using "GG15HC High Silicon and High Carbon cast iron alloy", the GD and USR series as "high quality grey iron", and the RK series as "OE Spec G3000 Grey Iron".
Just to throw some extra confusion into the mix, EBC apparently makes its two-piece floating rotors from G3500, not G3000, grey iron.
The net effect is enough to leave me absolutely baffled. Does anyone know what EBC is actually doing?
Putting Brembo, ATE and Textar in same sentence with Centric etc. is blasphemy!
If you can get this in this order, do it:
1. Brembo
ATE
Textar
Then EBC
Then way below anything else.
As for pads:
ATE
Textar
EBC
Hawk.
Brembo aftermarket rotors are all made in china.
The Chinese rotor marketplace has changed in recent years. There are only several factories making rotors in China. Even the Textar/Akebono (WP exclusive)/Bosch Quietcast rotors are from china, and they are all packaged identically and look suspiciously identical.
In the US, Kiru and Advics are the only two companies that are building rotors of serious volume. And both of these companies are primarily supplying OEM's.
Most of the newer Toyota/Lexus vehicles are using Advics friction. Akebono and NBK are occasionally used on the rears.
I used Brembo on BMW, and have them on Tiguan. Both Made in Italy.
Maybe for some vehicles are Made in China.
Textar pads for Euro vehicles are Made in Romania, and rotors in Germany. Pagid is China. Whether some ATE or Textar are made in China is probable. In the end, as Tim Cook said, China now has much better trained vocational workforce than US.
For Japanese vehicles do not know.
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Did your BMW's Brembo Rotors contain the water-based clearcoat on them? All of the coated Brembo rotors I have ordered from WorldPac are made in china. Then again, I have only ordered them for Asian applications; for Euro vehicles, I try to purchase Zimmerman Coated (they are made in germany).
The price difference between Textar rotors and Zimmerman coated is usually under 10%, so I always order Zimmerman Coated if they are available.
The price difference between Textar rotors and Zimmerman coated is usually under 10%, so I always order Zimmerman Coated if they are available.
I've heard nothing but good about Zimmerman rotors, but like many other excellent European products, they seem to focus primarily on European vehicles. Much like the other European suppliers listed here, they make pads for my car but not rotors.
Based on the latest information I have come across, I believe that Advics was responsible for the front brake pads and calipers, Advics for the rear calipers, and Akebono for the rear brake pads. Still no information on who made the rotors.
The front calipers are four-piston fixed calipers with 43mm pistons, the rear calipers are floating and use a 40.5mm piston. Between the larger, more numerous pistons and the larger rotors giving mechanical advantage (334mm vs. 310mm), it would seem that the car has (as expected) a very front-biased braking system - unless there's some differential valving or markedly different friction coefficients between the front and rear pads, I'd expect a front:rear braking force ratio on the order of 2.4:1.
Based on the latest information I have come across, I believe that Advics was responsible for the front brake pads and calipers, Advics for the rear calipers, and Akebono for the rear brake pads. Still no information on who made the rotors.
The front calipers are four-piston fixed calipers with 43mm pistons, the rear calipers are floating and use a 40.5mm piston. Between the larger, more numerous pistons and the larger rotors giving mechanical advantage (334mm vs. 310mm), it would seem that the car has (as expected) a very front-biased braking system - unless there's some differential valving or markedly different friction coefficients between the front and rear pads, I'd expect a front:rear braking force ratio on the order of 2.4:1.
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AFAIK, Advics is the only rotor supplier to Toyota.
Originally Posted by Garak
I did go with Raybestos EHT pads and their painted rotors, and I am very happy with them.
Which rotors from Raybestos, coated or painted ? I may have missed them but I haven't seen "painted" rotors (at least at RockAuto). I put their coated rotors on both the front and rear of my wife's Fusion and they look great (6 months ago for the fronts, rears only a month ago).
My concern with painted rotors is the substantial amount of 'unswept' area between the painted section and what the pads actually cover. The fronts aren't as bad as the rears.
I did go with Raybestos EHT pads and their painted rotors, and I am very happy with them.
Which rotors from Raybestos, coated or painted ? I may have missed them but I haven't seen "painted" rotors (at least at RockAuto). I put their coated rotors on both the front and rear of my wife's Fusion and they look great (6 months ago for the fronts, rears only a month ago).
My concern with painted rotors is the substantial amount of 'unswept' area between the painted section and what the pads actually cover. The fronts aren't as bad as the rears.
They weren't coated, just painted. The hats were painted black. Ironically, one of the four (a rear) wasn't painted; it was old stock of the same part number, so I painted it myself. With respect to your last paragraph, I would concur, especially towards the outside. The inside wasn't so bad. Actually, I kind of find the paint coverage was better with the rears than the fronts, with their inside area not what it should be. Personally, I'd certainly go for these rotors again (at least as it stands now). I'd just probably touch up the paint job more to my liking on them all.
When I did the order, there were no Raybestos coated rotors up here yet, and, as you can see from my little story, the painted rotors were fairly new in Canada as it was.
When I did the order, there were no Raybestos coated rotors up here yet, and, as you can see from my little story, the painted rotors were fairly new in Canada as it was.
I've been leaning towards the Raybestos coated rotors but when I go to their website, they list (4) categories: Best, Better, Premium, and Specialty-Performance. I don't even know how to rank those !! Is "Best" better than "Premium" ?? What the "Better" ones better than ?? If you sort by grade on their website, they list them by Best, Better, Premium, Specialty. Some have suggested that the coated (RPT) rotors aren't the highest quality. They're good rotors but we're probably trading off this rust-prevention coating for machining precision....
I'm more leaning towards getting 'premium' rotors, be they from Raybestos, Wagner, Centric, etc in the painted variety and then adding add'l paint to the areas that I know will be outside of the braking surface area. Too bad Raybestos doesn't offer an RPT coated rotors in a premium grade.
I'm more leaning towards getting 'premium' rotors, be they from Raybestos, Wagner, Centric, etc in the painted variety and then adding add'l paint to the areas that I know will be outside of the braking surface area. Too bad Raybestos doesn't offer an RPT coated rotors in a premium grade.
Just for interest sake, when I'm back at home, if I can track down the records, I'll see if I can come up with a Raybestos part number for what I used, which may add some clarity to my choice.
For those interested, the front rotors that went onto my G37 were from Raybestos and marked as "Advanced" with a part number of 980575, in case anyone wishes to look at different Raybestos tiers.
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