Start-Stop - Does it save fuel?

Kestas

Staff member
Messages
13,977
Location
The Motor City
Originally Posted by Pelican
It has never been a question of savings for the owner, but everything to do with CAFE
That is a beef of mine. Travel from Point A to Point B should be made as cheap as possible. CAFE only takes gas mileage into account. A lot of convoluted nonsense can occur when manufacturers are forced to focus on only one aspect of vehicle ownership. Sometimes I feel that all the money saved with gas saving technology eventually goes to the mechanics to repair the cars because of the complexity and expense.
 
Messages
366
Location
Boise, Idaho
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
In the real world, it saves very little fuel. Unless you are someone who constantly idles your vehicle for minutes at a time I don't really see any benefit. It's basically an expensive way for manufacturers to get 1 mpg for CAFE.
I live in Boise Idaho. People here don't have a clue about how to get off a light that just went from red to green. The lights are set up for a long green. Well guess what that means the other light is a long red. Lights goes green and no one is paying any attention. They are now fiddling with whatever and paying no attention. The first three cars at the light SLOWLY move off. The fourth guy doesn't even begin to move until the first three have gone completely across the intersection. Now that driver just begins to slowly apply the gas and begin crawling across the intersection. Fourth guy... same thing. Fifth, sixth, seventh is the same way. The guy in front gets so far ahead before they even begin to move. No one here seems to understand you can all begin to move forward and pace your acceleration in such a way that you have the space between you and the person in front slowly open up to compensate for the room you need between the two of you. Doing that will now allow the people way in back to also move forward. But no. What happens is the lights will go red again and then everyone in back now move forward and queue up at the light to begin the slow crawl again. Meanwhile traffic in Boise is having a 2000 extra cars on the road every month as new people move into the area. Sitting and idling at lights is getting to be the norm here. I sit more than I move lately. My gas bill shows the impact of that. I am also beginning to hear a lot more horn honking going on the get the people in front to get going! When Boise was a small town this driving method was fine but it isn't small anymore and people are not adjusting to the idea they are not the only people on the road anymore. There are at least 30 cars lined up behind you at this busy intersection and you need to be ready to get going.
 
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17,585
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...
I used to live in Ontario Oregon back in the 70's and we made trips to Boise because there was nothing in Ontario. Boise has exploded and I agree with your assessment. Drivers don't adapt quickly. I see it here as well in the Puget Sound metro. I light turns green and you sit for twenty or thirty seconds before anyone moves. Each car must be two or three seconds delayed which adds up if you are the 30th car in line. Usually you miss the light. The same thing happens in reverse when you are traveling on a freeway and suddenly the traffic ahead stops. As for stop start, it's not totally dependent on the starter. Many systems use ignited fuel to assist the process.
 
Messages
2,362
Location
Texas
In Texas where it frequently gets well over 100 degrees in the summer, I don't want the engine shutting off at the stop lights. I want the A/C to blow ice cold at all times, especially when I'm sitting at a light. I couldn't give a rat's A$$ about saving a couple of pennys on gas in this situation. My guess is that many of you who live in ares where it gets extremely cold probably feel the same way.
 
Messages
4,912
Location
Lakeville, MN
Lots of talk in here and not a lot of users. I've got it on my 2016 F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost. Drive a vehicle with start stop if you live in the city/suburbs, and you'll learn quickly how much time you actually spend idling. Hint: Its a lot more than some are willing to admit. The studies I've found are all on the same order as above - less than 10 seconds of idling makes a restart the more economical choice in terms of fuel mileage. I've also figured out very quickly how to make the system do what I want. Don't want it to stop? Don't press the brake pedal so hard and it won't. Easy peasy... Seems like in my typical city driving I can save more than a few tenths of an mpg...
 

Kestas

Staff member
Messages
13,977
Location
The Motor City
My only experience with start/stop is with a rental in Florida. The car would sit quiet until you let off the brake, or if the cabin temperature started to rise. Lights are long in So. Florida -- a lot longer than in Michigan. Given the hot temperatures, the start feature would kick in after 15 seconds, well before the light turned green.
 
Messages
4,912
Location
Lakeville, MN
Originally Posted by wag123
In Texas where it frequently gets well over 100 degrees in the summer, I don't want the engine shutting off at the stop lights. I want the A/C to blow ice cold at all times, especially when I'm sitting at a light. My guess is that many of you who live in ares where it gets extremely cold probably feel the same way.
When its hot, mine doesn't shut off. When its very cold, same story. Electric seat warmers help too... All built into the logic.
 
Last edited:
Messages
35,785
Location
NY
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by demarpaint
It is supposed to save fuel, I'd guess in some instances it does, and some it might not. The question is does it save enough fuel to save the owner of the vehicle money? it's all about CAFE.
It has never been a question of savings for the owner, but everything to do with CAFE
Come on now, over the past 50 years just about every advancement in automotive technology related to the drivetrain has occurred for efficiency and emissions.
OK, but some were actual improvements that benefited the car owner. This one seems to be very one sided. I see zero benefit to the average car owner with this technology.
 
Messages
3,877
Location
Alberta, Canada
If I don't have any choice for this option with a car I obtain in the future, it will be disabled privily. My driving route will never require this feature nor any perceived benefit.
 
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14,816
Location
Central NY
I'm not concerned about the starter wearing out or the battery wearing out ... More concerned about wearing out the ring gear on the flexplate / flywheel. The belt driven systems are cool, though. Not as labor intensive of a repair, I guess.
 
Messages
35,785
Location
NY
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
If I don't have any choice for this option with a car I obtain in the future, it will be disabled privily. My driving route will never require this feature nor any perceived benefit.
You, me, and everyone else planning on a new car purchase. I'm sure there will be even more devices/hacks in the aftermarket to disable it when they do away with the button to turn it off. Or maybe in the not so distant future they'll figure out a way to hit the CAFE target w/o it, and it will die and become extinct.
 
Messages
3,195
Location
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by knerml
Start/stop saves very little fuel, because in normal driving there is minimal idle time. ... HOWEVER, during EPA fuel mileage testing, there is a significant amount of idling time. So, start/stop feature producing an artificially high MPG rating.
Maybe for you, if you live where there are no traffic tie-ups and few red lights, but many vehicles in the US spend a much higher percentage of trip time idling than is incorporated in the EPA tests.
 

NO2

Messages
950
Location
Michigan
It depends what you call 'normal' driving. Where we live it can take 20 min to go 1 mile in rush hour. Walking is faster.
 
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17,835
Location
Silicon Valley
Depends on traffic. I'd say if you have a lot of red lights it would save enough fuel to make a difference, but not stop sign traffic. My main beef is if I were turning the steering of a stop-start it feels weird.
 
Messages
1,425
Location
south dakota
Unfortunately manufactures seem to think they have to change things all the time and try to improve them. Guess what? The consumer is the person who has to pay for the technology that sometimes does not work too well or has hidden problems after the warranty has expired. Sometimes its better to stick with the older proven technology.
 
Messages
2,138
Location
Somewhere in time
Originally Posted by MRtv
I live in Boise Idaho. People here don't have a clue about how to get off a light that just went from red to green. The lights are set up for a long green. Well guess what that means the other light is a long red. Lights goes green and no one is paying any attention. They are now fiddling with whatever and paying no attention. The first three cars at the light SLOWLY move off. The fourth guy doesn't even begin to move until the first three have gone completely across the intersection. Now that driver just begins to slowly apply the gas and begin crawling across the intersection. Fourth guy... same thing. Fifth, sixth, seventh is the same way. The guy in front gets so far ahead before they even begin to move. No one here seems to understand you can all begin to move forward and pace your acceleration in such a way that you have the space between you and the person in front slowly open up to compensate for the room you need between the two of you. Doing that will now allow the people way in back to also move forward. But no. What happens is the lights will go red again and then everyone in back now move forward and queue up at the light to begin the slow crawl again. Meanwhile traffic in Boise is having a 2000 extra cars on the road every month as new people move into the area. Sitting and idling at lights is getting to be the norm here. I sit more than I move lately. My gas bill shows the impact of that. I am also beginning to hear a lot more horn honking going on the get the people in front to get going! When Boise was a small town this driving method was fine but it isn't small anymore and people are not adjusting to the idea they are not the only people on the road anymore. There are at least 30 cars lined up behind you at this busy intersection and you need to be ready to get going.


old.jpg
 
Messages
2,951
Location
pa
unless you can easily disable stop-start i would NOT buy that vehicle, thats just me! will the "savings"???? pay for an early started death or the battery's shorter life, more useless bull po unless you really set a lot in traffic. how about if you need to move in a hurry where seconds can be a crash or NOT!!
 
Messages
2,138
Location
Somewhere in time
Originally Posted by benjy
how about if you need to move in a hurry where seconds can be a crash or NOT!!
So it's a good thing that we both know that neither one of us has fast enough reaction times for this to be an issue. It's the old ' they just came out of the blue and WHAMMO!!!' Please take your straw man argument elsewhere!! Cheers1
 
Messages
2,995
Location
Cedarbrae, Ontario
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
If I don't have any choice for this option with a car I obtain in the future, it will be disabled privily. My driving route will never require this feature nor any perceived benefit.
+1
 
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