Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I drove a rental 18' Malibu that had it and it drove me INSANE. This is the hottest city in the United States, we need 100% A/C when it's hot.
Auto Start / Stop Feature.
- Thread starter Voleak
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Yup, just one more thing to go wrong later on down the road. And when this feature goes wrong, it will suck being stranded on the road, at a stop sign, red light, stop and go traffic.
The new Pacifica has this feature and the second battery. It's going to cost to replace two batteries. I thought they had a switch to disable the feature. Guess not.
Hybrids, most, don't use a separate small starter motor and they have electric air conditioning. Electric ac is great, doesn't pull on the engine. My Volt has electric ac and I am very happy with it's performance. I hear stop start regular cars turning their starter motors as I take off immediately in silence.
Hybrids, most, don't use a separate small starter motor and they have electric air conditioning. Electric ac is great, doesn't pull on the engine. My Volt has electric ac and I am very happy with it's performance. I hear stop start regular cars turning their starter motors as I take off immediately in silence.
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
If there were two gas stations right next to one another and one had fuel for $3.40/gallon and the other has fuel for $3.74/gallon (a 10% increase), how much annoyance would it take you to go to the more expensive station and pay 34 cents more a gallon?
If my car would stay running vs shutting off, i'd easily pay it. How much is that 10% fuel savings going to cover the starter system repairs? You can't tell me that it can stop and start 7-10 thousand times a year and be as reliable as the car that uses its starter 2-3 times a day.
Plus in this scenario I have a choice of which gas station to visit. Don't have a choice with the start-stop.
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
If there were two gas stations right next to one another and one had fuel for $3.40/gallon and the other has fuel for $3.74/gallon (a 10% increase), how much annoyance would it take you to go to the more expensive station and pay 34 cents more a gallon?
If my car would stay running vs shutting off, i'd easily pay it. How much is that 10% fuel savings going to cover the starter system repairs? You can't tell me that it can stop and start 7-10 thousand times a year and be as reliable as the car that uses its starter 2-3 times a day.
Plus in this scenario I have a choice of which gas station to visit. Don't have a choice with the start-stop.
Originally Posted By: Zee09
Doesn't bother me a bit. As a long time hybrid user I'm used to it and like it.
Ford does it the best!
As a nearly 4-year user of a hybrid of another brand, I agree, mostly. It's only annoying when it refuses to stop the engine appropriately, which is most often when the engine is partially warmed up, or soon after resuming travel after parking briefly. The compressor does not stop when the engine automatically stops.
Some people will gripe about any change.
Doesn't bother me a bit. As a long time hybrid user I'm used to it and like it.
Ford does it the best!
As a nearly 4-year user of a hybrid of another brand, I agree, mostly. It's only annoying when it refuses to stop the engine appropriately, which is most often when the engine is partially warmed up, or soon after resuming travel after parking briefly. The compressor does not stop when the engine automatically stops.
Some people will gripe about any change.
i think you should google this first before replyong
There is tons of technology and systems that addresses all the issues people are bringing up. Its not the same as you turning thr key off in your basic car and starting it again, it is completely different.
It's almost as if trained engineers spent full time thinking over the issue as if their jobs depended on it.
The reasons people are stating reminds me of that quote "If the black box is so tough, why dont they make the whole airplane out of black box material?"
There is tons of technology and systems that addresses all the issues people are bringing up. Its not the same as you turning thr key off in your basic car and starting it again, it is completely different.
It's almost as if trained engineers spent full time thinking over the issue as if their jobs depended on it.
The reasons people are stating reminds me of that quote "If the black box is so tough, why dont they make the whole airplane out of black box material?"
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Have it on my 2016 F150 with the 2.7 Ecoboost, and I like it. It makes you realize how much time you spend sitting at stoplights, etc... just burning gas. And the system in the F150 is smart enough to keep the A/C running if the A/C is cranked, or it does turn it off and then restart it before the heat rise is too much.
The list of parameters that control whether it runs or not is impressively long. I find it is super easy to manipulate using brake pressure. Light brake pressure and it doesn't engage.
The list of parameters that control whether it runs or not is impressively long. I find it is super easy to manipulate using brake pressure. Light brake pressure and it doesn't engage.
I have it on my 2015 Focus. Big giant button next to the shifter to disable it, but unfortunately it defaults on. The car is a manual transmission though so not nearly as intrusive as an automatic. The car restarts when you push the clutch pedal down to shift into 1st, so the engine is back running before you touch the throttle pedal. Works quite well.
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I have in in my A3, first car I own to have this feature. While it works well generally with careful brake pedal modulation, there are occasions when it has caught me off guard. Entering roundabouts or exiting busy intersections can be dangerous if the start/stop kicks in just as I am about to go.
Most people worry about the cost of starter motor replacement. I have not had to replace the starter motor yet, but the replacement battery sure costs a lot more than a regular battery. Cars with start/stop requires at least an EFB or an AGM battery, due to high discharge cycles which will prematurely kill a regular battery. All the accumulated fuel savings will be wiped out the moment a new battery is needed.
Most people worry about the cost of starter motor replacement. I have not had to replace the starter motor yet, but the replacement battery sure costs a lot more than a regular battery. Cars with start/stop requires at least an EFB or an AGM battery, due to high discharge cycles which will prematurely kill a regular battery. All the accumulated fuel savings will be wiped out the moment a new battery is needed.
We have the ESS on our 2017 BMW 330i but it defaults to the last setting you had it on when you turned the car off. Not an issue with this car unless you accidently bump the button and turn it on. We bought a 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the Pentastar V6 in March. Had the POS ESS system. It was so bad, we could not stand it and traded the Jeep (with just 1800 miles) on another 2018 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L Hemi. The V8 does not have the ESS and is a joy to drive. I would never by another vehicle with an ESS system that defaults to on under any circumstances.
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Feature grew on in wife’s 2018 VW Tiguan.
The climate control works fine. The only peeve I have is wipers halt when engine restarts.
The climate control works fine. The only peeve I have is wipers halt when engine restarts.
Originally Posted By: chrome
I have in in my A3, first car I own to have this feature. While it works well generally with careful brake pedal modulation, there are occasions when it has caught me off guard. Entering roundabouts or exiting busy intersections can be dangerous if the start/stop kicks in just as I am about to go.
Most people worry about the cost of starter motor replacement. I have not had to replace the starter motor yet, but the replacement battery sure costs a lot more than a regular battery. Cars with start/stop requires at least an EFB or an AGM battery, due to high discharge cycles which will prematurely kill a regular battery. All the accumulated fuel savings will be wiped out the moment a new battery is needed.
All good points. I wonder how many lawsuits it will take before they rethink the technology. I guess so far the CAFE credits outweigh the lawsuits. I know a couple of people that experienced close calls because of it. I haven't heard of any accidents, yet. I'm happy I don't own anything with that technology. If/when I buy a vehicle with it I will either have the device in my pocket to disable it, and plug it in on the dealers lot, or take it home and do it as soon as I get to the house if the procedure is time consuming. If the vehicle can't be disabled, I won't buy that brand. I'm sure others have similar feelings, and if they don't I guess I should hide.
Or brace for the flame war. lol
I have in in my A3, first car I own to have this feature. While it works well generally with careful brake pedal modulation, there are occasions when it has caught me off guard. Entering roundabouts or exiting busy intersections can be dangerous if the start/stop kicks in just as I am about to go.
Most people worry about the cost of starter motor replacement. I have not had to replace the starter motor yet, but the replacement battery sure costs a lot more than a regular battery. Cars with start/stop requires at least an EFB or an AGM battery, due to high discharge cycles which will prematurely kill a regular battery. All the accumulated fuel savings will be wiped out the moment a new battery is needed.
All good points. I wonder how many lawsuits it will take before they rethink the technology. I guess so far the CAFE credits outweigh the lawsuits. I know a couple of people that experienced close calls because of it. I haven't heard of any accidents, yet. I'm happy I don't own anything with that technology. If/when I buy a vehicle with it I will either have the device in my pocket to disable it, and plug it in on the dealers lot, or take it home and do it as soon as I get to the house if the procedure is time consuming. If the vehicle can't be disabled, I won't buy that brand. I'm sure others have similar feelings, and if they don't I guess I should hide.
A friend has that on his new Chevy Terrain. He said if you keep the blower motor on the a/c at a higher setting the motor will not shut off. That is horrible feature for people who live in the South in jungle heat [plus tons of gridlock] everyday day of the year.
JHZR2
Staff member
I had that in three cars in Europe - a BMW diesel wagon, a Volvo diesel wagon, and an MB A class petrol. All worked just fine, and I can't comprehend what the issue is other than fearing another bogey man in the room.
Hybrids turn on and off under far more severe conditions. Do they have problems? I'd say no.
Why? The motor-generator is rated for it.
Start stop gets the fuel saving benefits of a hybrid when in traffic, with no hybrid power train, which is another bogey man some love to hate.
Rate the starter correctly for the duty cycle, it's not a big deal. Size the battery to allow the loads (havoc primarily) to run appropriately and be charged back up appropriately, and Im not seeing the issue.
As I said in the hybrid battery thread, 40+ mpg in a full featured midsize or larger car is the anomaly, not the rule. It requires full highway cruising, and drops from there. Hybrids may do 40ish with high speed highway use, but that's the floor and they can only climb.
Start stop gets one of the biggest fuel wasters (idling at lights/stoped in traffic) out of the mix, in a far simpler design.
I would be concerned with it operating on turbo vehicles, as even if the water cooling continues, the oil flow would be disrupted.
Hybrids turn on and off under far more severe conditions. Do they have problems? I'd say no.
Why? The motor-generator is rated for it.
Start stop gets the fuel saving benefits of a hybrid when in traffic, with no hybrid power train, which is another bogey man some love to hate.
Rate the starter correctly for the duty cycle, it's not a big deal. Size the battery to allow the loads (havoc primarily) to run appropriately and be charged back up appropriately, and Im not seeing the issue.
As I said in the hybrid battery thread, 40+ mpg in a full featured midsize or larger car is the anomaly, not the rule. It requires full highway cruising, and drops from there. Hybrids may do 40ish with high speed highway use, but that's the floor and they can only climb.
Start stop gets one of the biggest fuel wasters (idling at lights/stoped in traffic) out of the mix, in a far simpler design.
I would be concerned with it operating on turbo vehicles, as even if the water cooling continues, the oil flow would be disrupted.
Agree with MNGopher. Our '18 F150 has it as well and seldom do I turn it off. The engine is restarted and in gear in the time it takes to move my foot to the accelerator, and the trans engagement on restart is seamless. If the cabin temp creeps up it restarts to get the AC blowing. It reduces fan speed during the off period however and while it doesn't bother me, my wife starts to get uncomfortable BUT it starts about the time she's had enough. Idling accounts for a significant loss of MPG over a tank of gas. Over my 36gal tank, if I idle for 30 minutes, it's roughly a 1.5mpg average hit. So if this vehicle does it seamlessly without inconveniencing me, great. I'm averaging ~20.5 mpg in a full size 4wd over the 5 months of ownership so far, which is 1 mpg shy of the turbocharged volvo I used to drive for better mpg. I've sold the volvo. Like MN' said, super light brake pressure doesn't shut it off, so if I'm creeping along in traffic and just feathering the brake it wont go off/on/off/on, a nice reward for smooth driving to reduce traffic slinkies. If the AC is on high, and i suspect if defrost is on, engine will continue to run. Ford really did a good job with this. It just takes a couple of weeks to get used to. I've got decades of old car programming in me where "off" meant "stall" which was a negative experience. It took me getting past all of those memories.
The problem is that the system is dumb and doesn’t predict for situations where you need to put your vehicle in motion really fast.
Example:
You are at a T junction, coming from the secondary road, you have a stop sign and want to turn left. The straight, main road is busy and has priority (no stop or yeld signs).
Your time window to merge is of 3-4 seconds. You notice an opportunity and press the acceleration pedal. Just to realize that your engine will need to start first and will delay you 1-2 seconds. If you don’t slam the brakes immediately, you may get into the situation where you got in motion but a little bit too late. So now you cannot merge into the lane going left, but your car is halfway into the lane going right and vehicles are approaching. Panic moment yay!
Now repeat this during some slippery conditions such as rain or winter.
You’ll want to meet the guys who forced this onto you and have a “word” with them.
The thing affects safety and should be regulated by NTHSA. Like in if you turned it off, then it should stay off.
Example:
You are at a T junction, coming from the secondary road, you have a stop sign and want to turn left. The straight, main road is busy and has priority (no stop or yeld signs).
Your time window to merge is of 3-4 seconds. You notice an opportunity and press the acceleration pedal. Just to realize that your engine will need to start first and will delay you 1-2 seconds. If you don’t slam the brakes immediately, you may get into the situation where you got in motion but a little bit too late. So now you cannot merge into the lane going left, but your car is halfway into the lane going right and vehicles are approaching. Panic moment yay!
Now repeat this during some slippery conditions such as rain or winter.
You’ll want to meet the guys who forced this onto you and have a “word” with them.
The thing affects safety and should be regulated by NTHSA. Like in if you turned it off, then it should stay off.
I remember when seat belts were mandatory and everyone hated it, but now it is an accepted fact. Unless you want a ticket. I foresee auto/stop being the same way. It will get pushed down our throats and in time will be one thing we just accept.
I understand that if you put the vehicle in manual mode it disables auto/stop, at least on some models.
I understand that if you put the vehicle in manual mode it disables auto/stop, at least on some models.
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