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Single By Choice?
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you have kids, you don't do it from a parallel universe, nor suppose that money grows on trees, you will make do because it's what you want to have in your life.
Precisely
If you have kids, you don't do it from a parallel universe, nor suppose that money grows on trees, you will make do because it's what you want to have in your life.
Precisely
Whew! Long thread here. Going to be 56 tomorrow, and still single. I was engaged 2x. The first one ended with a "Dear John" letter taped to my front door when I got home from work. This good christian woman tossed me to the curb to shack up with another guy from her church. He was still married too, but separated. The 2nd was an alcoholic and wound up in jail after her 3rd offense dui. Dodged a big bullet both times. Nothing to gain by getting married and way too much to lose.
I'll share a few observations from the perspective of a man near retirement after thirty three years of marriage and two grown sons making their own way in the world, one of whom is married and has given us a terror or a grandson. This little guy is extremely busy and active. We are of course very pleased with him. Kind of payback time for my son
First, its fun to be single when you're young, particularly if you make enough money to enjoy it. Most of what young men think about and enjoy revolves around one thing only, and variety is always a good thing.
Second, people who never marry also seem never to fully grown into adulthood and this is also true of married couples who remain childless.
Third, there are easily as many certifiably crazy men as women. It's just more obvious with women since they are more open and expressive. A particularly bad arrangement will pair two crazies. We are observing such a situation with some neighbors, who have been involved in a multi-year divorce fight.
Fourth, marriage is like anything else worthwhile in that it involves negotiation and compromise AKA communication. Anyone who doesn't master these skills is in for a rough life.
Finally, a long and happy marriage yields a level of mutual trust, respect, commitment and intimacy that is unique and not to be found in anything else you'll do in life.
But what do I know? I'm just an old married guy.
First, its fun to be single when you're young, particularly if you make enough money to enjoy it. Most of what young men think about and enjoy revolves around one thing only, and variety is always a good thing.
Second, people who never marry also seem never to fully grown into adulthood and this is also true of married couples who remain childless.
Third, there are easily as many certifiably crazy men as women. It's just more obvious with women since they are more open and expressive. A particularly bad arrangement will pair two crazies. We are observing such a situation with some neighbors, who have been involved in a multi-year divorce fight.
Fourth, marriage is like anything else worthwhile in that it involves negotiation and compromise AKA communication. Anyone who doesn't master these skills is in for a rough life.
Finally, a long and happy marriage yields a level of mutual trust, respect, commitment and intimacy that is unique and not to be found in anything else you'll do in life.
But what do I know? I'm just an old married guy.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Second, people who never marry also seem never to fully grown into adulthood and this is also true of married couples who remain childless.
Probably wishful thinking on the part of married folks. I am sure they have an equally valid or or invalid view of those who spent their lives joined at the hip to their spouse.
Second, people who never marry also seem never to fully grown into adulthood and this is also true of married couples who remain childless.
Probably wishful thinking on the part of married folks. I am sure they have an equally valid or or invalid view of those who spent their lives joined at the hip to their spouse.
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One thing that really stands out to me is those defending marriage here are all pretty much older. They have happy 30+ year marriages which means when they were dating and seeking their mates it was a far different world than we live in now. The bottom line is women and the legal system dealing with divorce are no longer the same as they all remember. The risk single men face NOW is drastically greater.
My whole life growing up I saw marriage in the best light possible. As I stated earlier marriages in my family, except for my Brother's 1st marriage, are lifetime things of 40-50+ years. My Brother's second marriage is now over 30 years and going strong. I know what a good marriage looks like.
Now with that said, I have also witnessed the horror that is modern day marriage with my friends and younger family members. It is just not the same playing field out there and the reason is the women are flat out evil these days( not all but IMO most )and the system that is so extremely anti man that literally a divorce can ruin him financially and emotionally for the rest of his life( and I am dead serious and not joking - have seen it! ). NO rational and sane man should even consider marriage and kids in today's world.
You just can't compare the women of 30, 40, 50 years ago to the modern woman of today. They are a totally different species.
Also, getting married and having kids in no way shape or form makes you an adult. That is asinine. Some of the most immature people I know are married with kids.
My whole life growing up I saw marriage in the best light possible. As I stated earlier marriages in my family, except for my Brother's 1st marriage, are lifetime things of 40-50+ years. My Brother's second marriage is now over 30 years and going strong. I know what a good marriage looks like.
Now with that said, I have also witnessed the horror that is modern day marriage with my friends and younger family members. It is just not the same playing field out there and the reason is the women are flat out evil these days( not all but IMO most )and the system that is so extremely anti man that literally a divorce can ruin him financially and emotionally for the rest of his life( and I am dead serious and not joking - have seen it! ). NO rational and sane man should even consider marriage and kids in today's world.
You just can't compare the women of 30, 40, 50 years ago to the modern woman of today. They are a totally different species.
Also, getting married and having kids in no way shape or form makes you an adult. That is asinine. Some of the most immature people I know are married with kids.
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Well, you've heard from the misogynists and the embittered divorced males.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
One thing that really stands out to me is those defending marriage here are all pretty much older. They have happy 30+ year marriages which means when they were dating and seeking their mates it was a far different world than we live in now. The bottom line is women and the legal system dealing with divorce are no longer the same as they all remember. The risk single men face NOW is drastically greater............
I agree with much of what you've written. I've also witnessed a few marriages of aunts/uncles who did stay together, but were miserable: i.e. a permanent "cold front" had moved in.
The world is definitely NOT the same. Multiple changes have occured on different levels, leaving humans trying to process it all, catch up, keep up, and "do it all"....in a short amount of time. And the sliders, curve and fast balls just keep on coming. Small wonder more & more want to "unplug".
What's largely ignored in todays media are women who beat up, abuse, dominate, and subjugate men. Hollywood has gone there a few times in past years. It's like suicide: Not reported. I witnessed this personally from my old man's second wife. Never understood what he saw in her. Step-by-step she went through putting her name on everything, invading savings set aside for me by my own Mother.
She'd have taken the very air from my lungs if possible. Yeah, she was that bad.
Just like The Grinch who took everything...."even a crumb too small for a mouse".
So I admit to being biased. And traumatized. It's the hand Fate delt me as I didn't have any choice in the matter at nine years old. But I knew what she was zero-to-the-bone, even at that age. Never could figure why the old man didn't see her for what she was. He died nine yrs later, leaving me to deal with her & her lawyers.
"The Sins of The Father Visited Upon The Son"?
I share the same intolerance for "irrationality" as a previous poster. I witness plenty of it in relatives (which I largely avoid as men are rare amongst them) and the larger area of mass irrationality and insanity that is the hip/hop/flip/flop hipster paradise of nearby Austin, Tx. Even the beloved Police Chief decided he'd had enough...
Small wonder then dealing with people and their problems are bottom on my list. I like kids and working with them, but they're not mine. Love animals too. All types. Enjoy lots of things, sports, hobbies, learning new skills, traveling, building, repairing, tinkering, etc....the list goes on and on.
One thing that really stands out to me is those defending marriage here are all pretty much older. They have happy 30+ year marriages which means when they were dating and seeking their mates it was a far different world than we live in now. The bottom line is women and the legal system dealing with divorce are no longer the same as they all remember. The risk single men face NOW is drastically greater............
I agree with much of what you've written. I've also witnessed a few marriages of aunts/uncles who did stay together, but were miserable: i.e. a permanent "cold front" had moved in.
The world is definitely NOT the same. Multiple changes have occured on different levels, leaving humans trying to process it all, catch up, keep up, and "do it all"....in a short amount of time. And the sliders, curve and fast balls just keep on coming. Small wonder more & more want to "unplug".
What's largely ignored in todays media are women who beat up, abuse, dominate, and subjugate men. Hollywood has gone there a few times in past years. It's like suicide: Not reported. I witnessed this personally from my old man's second wife. Never understood what he saw in her. Step-by-step she went through putting her name on everything, invading savings set aside for me by my own Mother.
She'd have taken the very air from my lungs if possible. Yeah, she was that bad.
Just like The Grinch who took everything...."even a crumb too small for a mouse".
So I admit to being biased. And traumatized. It's the hand Fate delt me as I didn't have any choice in the matter at nine years old. But I knew what she was zero-to-the-bone, even at that age. Never could figure why the old man didn't see her for what she was. He died nine yrs later, leaving me to deal with her & her lawyers.
"The Sins of The Father Visited Upon The Son"?
I share the same intolerance for "irrationality" as a previous poster. I witness plenty of it in relatives (which I largely avoid as men are rare amongst them) and the larger area of mass irrationality and insanity that is the hip/hop/flip/flop hipster paradise of nearby Austin, Tx. Even the beloved Police Chief decided he'd had enough...
Small wonder then dealing with people and their problems are bottom on my list. I like kids and working with them, but they're not mine. Love animals too. All types. Enjoy lots of things, sports, hobbies, learning new skills, traveling, building, repairing, tinkering, etc....the list goes on and on.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Well, you've heard from the misogynists and the embittered divorced males.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
Maybe younger men on BITOG saw their parents divorced and both parents had toxic relationships afterwards. Subconsciously they are avoiding marriage and possible hardships.
On the other hand, 40-50 years ago people stayed in loveless marriages until they died. Today divorce is a very easy 'exit' option.
JHZR2 summed it up better than I could describe.
Well, you've heard from the misogynists and the embittered divorced males.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
Maybe younger men on BITOG saw their parents divorced and both parents had toxic relationships afterwards. Subconsciously they are avoiding marriage and possible hardships.
On the other hand, 40-50 years ago people stayed in loveless marriages until they died. Today divorce is a very easy 'exit' option.
JHZR2 summed it up better than I could describe.
Many years ago( mid 90's) I had a female roommate, very attractive, but we had never 'went there' despite a mutual attraction, we remained platonic friends. She was bouncing around from guy to guy, and one of them out of the blue proposed to her, a day after she told me she was going to end it with him for a multitude of reasons, mostly as other guys had more money and nicer cars and a more respectable future and were also apparently hung better, and circumsized.
She loved the ring, and moved out shortly after, but not after climbing into bed with me one night.
Heard it lasted for 6 months before falling apart.
Big surprise there. I've never seen nor heard from her again, but have not tried either.
The decision from breaking up, to getting married was the simple matter of a ring followed by a Question mark.
She loved the ring, and moved out shortly after, but not after climbing into bed with me one night.
Heard it lasted for 6 months before falling apart.
Big surprise there. I've never seen nor heard from her again, but have not tried either.
The decision from breaking up, to getting married was the simple matter of a ring followed by a Question mark.
Your post brings me to a point where I can only conclude that we are suffering a social crisis of personal immaturity and irresponsibility on a scale not before seen.
How could anyone have acted in as shallow and callous a manner as your old roommate?
Maybe part of the problem is the lack of values among many younger people.
This isn't about religion either. It's about accepting personal responsibility and having a healthy sense of shame.
We need to accept the consequences of our actions which will lead to a more careful consideration of the actions we take.
How could anyone have acted in as shallow and callous a manner as your old roommate?
Maybe part of the problem is the lack of values among many younger people.
This isn't about religion either. It's about accepting personal responsibility and having a healthy sense of shame.
We need to accept the consequences of our actions which will lead to a more careful consideration of the actions we take.
"Second, people who never marry also seem never to fully grown into adulthood and this is also true of married couples who remain childless."
I bet people who say such are wonderful at parties, especially when they tell a couple who are infertile that.
I bet people who say such are wonderful at parties, especially when they tell a couple who are infertile that.
11 years of marriage here. It was a rocky start for the first 5 years or so, but we persevered. No regrets and I hope to stay married to this woman for the rest of my life.
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
11 years of marriage here. It was a rocky start for the first 5 years or so, but we persevered. No regrets and I hope to stay married to this woman for the rest of my life.
My wife and I started dating in the late 90's. We were both very young and it was predictably a mess. We spent a few years apart and were eventually drawn back together, with her moving from the east coast to be with me in Ontario. We've been married 9 years now and while we have had our ups and downs, it is overall a healthy relationship with a strong bond and our hope is like yours, to stay together for the rest of our lives.
11 years of marriage here. It was a rocky start for the first 5 years or so, but we persevered. No regrets and I hope to stay married to this woman for the rest of my life.
My wife and I started dating in the late 90's. We were both very young and it was predictably a mess. We spent a few years apart and were eventually drawn back together, with her moving from the east coast to be with me in Ontario. We've been married 9 years now and while we have had our ups and downs, it is overall a healthy relationship with a strong bond and our hope is like yours, to stay together for the rest of our lives.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Well, you've heard from the misogynists and the embittered divorced males.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
It's not like embittered divorced males can't also be in the set of those who valued their marriages and, at least before she had an affair and ran off, saw them as completing, or the very least being a very important if not THE most important part of their lives.
They rightfully became embittered because the promises made were not kept, or worse, were betrayed by his unfaithful wife.
Divorced doesn't mean that marriage isn't valued. There is a good chance that at least one of the two divorced parties of the former marriage did indeed value the marriage. Valued it far more than his unfaithful partner who filed for divorce and had an affair with a married man old enough to be her father.
(No, I'm not embittered
)
Well, you've heard from the misogynists and the embittered divorced males.
You've also heard from those of various ages who value their marriages and their offspring and see them as completing their personal lives. You can even observe the validity of the observations I made in the posts made by various members in this very thread.
There is no rushing it. It'll happen when it happens if that's what you want.
It's not like embittered divorced males can't also be in the set of those who valued their marriages and, at least before she had an affair and ran off, saw them as completing, or the very least being a very important if not THE most important part of their lives.
They rightfully became embittered because the promises made were not kept, or worse, were betrayed by his unfaithful wife.
Divorced doesn't mean that marriage isn't valued. There is a good chance that at least one of the two divorced parties of the former marriage did indeed value the marriage. Valued it far more than his unfaithful partner who filed for divorce and had an affair with a married man old enough to be her father.
(No, I'm not embittered
My ex-wife initiated ours after 15 years of marriage. She was unfulfilled. There was no abuse or infidelity, either. She said I would thank her later. I do! I was not unhappy being married to her, but I am happier not being married to her. She rushed into a second marriage that only lasted 18 months. Her third seems to be a keeper. I like the guy, too. Some of us may be compelled to be married while others are not. All you have to do is look at the "success rate" of marriages and you get the picture. Might be time to redefine committed relationships.
This wouldn't be something you would say to a couple you didn't know at any sort of gathering.
Also, adoption is a wonderful cure for infertility.
I know some young adoptive couples who can also bask in the knowledge that their new child will be given opportunities and a future they would not otherwise have had.
Also, adoption is a wonderful cure for infertility.
I know some young adoptive couples who can also bask in the knowledge that their new child will be given opportunities and a future they would not otherwise have had.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Third, there are easily as many certifiably crazy men as women. It's just more obvious with women since they are more open and expressive.
I couldn't agree more. We are expected to live up to that John Wayne stereotype.
I will now turn in my man card, and I expect that you will have to also. Your excellent comments are too truthful for most men to bear.
Third, there are easily as many certifiably crazy men as women. It's just more obvious with women since they are more open and expressive.
I couldn't agree more. We are expected to live up to that John Wayne stereotype.
I will now turn in my man card, and I expect that you will have to also. Your excellent comments are too truthful for most men to bear.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.
That is just victim-blaming and man-shaming. The posters here are merely stating their experiences, and from everything I've heard/experienced in real life and read online, they're not alone.
This just goes to the double standard in our society regarding men. If women complain about their men or their ex-husbands, they're "just being honest" or "trying to warn other women." Men who do the same are called resentful and bitter.
(We'd all be better off, men and women both, if we'd never passed that Nineteenth Amendment.)
Lots of anti women views / resentment, bitter comments about women and marriage.
That is just victim-blaming and man-shaming. The posters here are merely stating their experiences, and from everything I've heard/experienced in real life and read online, they're not alone.
This just goes to the double standard in our society regarding men. If women complain about their men or their ex-husbands, they're "just being honest" or "trying to warn other women." Men who do the same are called resentful and bitter.
(We'd all be better off, men and women both, if we'd never passed that Nineteenth Amendment.)
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