Shop refused to mount my tires

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Originally Posted By: kb01
I have no doubt it's the underwriters forcing the policy on the tire shop. I've experienced pretty much the same thing. Tire shops generally wont mount non-OEM sizes or ratings, tread below a certain depth, worn tires on the back, or tires over a certain age. It's been like that for awhile.

Though, it's been my experience that business owners are more inclined to "bend the rules" if you make the initial purchase through them. There's really no incentive for them to take on the liability without making a sale, especially for a new customer.


Unfortunately, that keeps me going to Walmart. If I carry in a set of tires and tell them what to do, they do it (so long as i don't leave them on my car)
 
I thought there was time involved in rating tires. Load rating also comes into play.
But to me its nuts to have a "T" rated tire on a minivan.
Here is some interesting reading I found.



Tire speed ratings are generally used to identify the highest speed a tire can maintain for 10 minutes without being in any form of danger or damage. Tire speed ratings typically indicate the highest speed that tires are able to handle. The system for rating applies to all tires regardless of the manufacturer.

Tire speed ratings have their roots in Germany in the countries world famous superhighway called the autobahn. On this highway, speed limits usually work differently where the top speed in a particular lane is not the maximum speed but rather the motorists driving on the lane cannot go below that speed limit. As such, excessive speeds on the highway were quite normal. However at the time though vehicles could get to very high speeds and were allowed to on the autobahn, the tires were not necessarily manufactured to handle such speeds and could cause serious accidents. This led to tire manufacturers developing various grades of tires to match the speeds as well as to match the types of vehicles which led to the development of the tire speed ratings

Heat + Rubber = Bad

The heat produced by flexing warms up the rubber compound which the tire is made from and heat is an enemy of that rubber. Apply enough heat to a tire and you will either melt it, or it will burn. How much heat, depends on the exact composition of the tire, but through testing it is possible to determine for each tire design what is the maximum combination of weight and speed that the tire will support before it begins to suffer weakening effects because of the heat. This is where the speed rating comes from.

After this is determined that tire is given a Speed Index and usually the car manufacturer will specify a certain speed index based on the maximum speed which the vehicle is capable of reaching.

The Speed Index code, together with a tire's Load Rating may be shown together in what is called the tire's "Service Description."
This is usually noted following the tire's size as in: 225/50R16 91H


Read more: http://www.tire-information-world.com/speed-rating.html#ixzz2nlWvZo4Y
 
What brand of tires are OEM on that Rogue? How many miles on them?

Reason I ask is that my wife has the 2012 Mustang in my signature and it now has almost 42,000 miles on it. The tires seem like they will go at least another 40K...maybe more.

It has Michelin tires by the way.
 
Originally Posted By: ddrumman2004
What brand of tires are OEM on that Rogue? How many miles on them?

Reason I ask is that my wife has the 2012 Mustang in my signature and it now has almost 42,000 miles on it. The tires seem like they will go at least another 40K...maybe more.

It has Michelin tires by the way.


The Pirelli's that are OEM on the 19" size are good for about 12-15k, awesome.

As far as the OPs concern, the shop is following the policy where they will only mount factory speed ratings or higher. It is nothing personal, just what they do to prevent lawsuits. The arguement that other people have done it, is a moot point to them.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
The important thing is what the owners manual says .

they tried telling me that I needed H rated on a 2010 accent. And I pulled out the owners manual,also the door jam doesnt specify a speed rating.

they were just being silly trying to say I needed to match the oem tires which isnt true.

After a 5min polite conversation with the manager they saw it my way.

now if your door sticker or manual does say H rated.. then you need H-rated. Thats normal and a liability thing.


This.

My Sonata came with "V" rated tires from the factory, which is ridiculous for a car like this. Neither the door sticker nor the manual said V-rated tires were required for replacement. I was ready to argue with the shop that installed my T-rated Hankook H727s, but they didn't say anything about it.

The Hankooks have a cap ply, something often found on H-rated tires or above, which is something some people say is an important feature for safety. So, I feel plenty safe on my T-rated tires.

if there has been an impact on handling, I sure didn't notice it. This car wasn't made for spirited driving and that's not what I do.


Originally Posted By: Eddie
The law states that replacement tires must be of the same Load and speed rating or higher. It is not just the speed rating but, the handling charteristices that go with the rating. The shop did the correct thing to protect you, except for the wait. Ed


Do you have some links showing "laws" about this? Some states may include it in their inspection requirement, but I don't think I've heard about any actual laws regarding the speed rating of tires. Pretty much everyone here is claiming something about the alleged civil liability if a shop installs a lower speed rating.

Personally, I think it's more about shops wanting to sell more expensive tires than liability, but people here can guess all they want as to the reason.
 
Personally, I would think that if the load rating is equal to or greater than that of the stock tires and the speed rating is greater than the vehicle's maximum speed, the tires should be plenty safe to use.
 
I had a similar situation with mismatched tires on my beater, I firmly believe it is about selling more and/or better tires in addition to liability concerns.

As to the ambulance chasers; I say let them have at it. As long as you are respecting the tire manufacturers specs (wrt tire pressure, load, speed, correct rim........) and we are talking new modern tires, not some bargain basement made in China junk there is no safe or unsafe. The comparison becomes is it better or poorer when changing tires in the same way as speeding up or slowing down changes your risk profile for an accident on the road. It is very hard to prove something was/is unsafe when you are operating within manufactures specs as you are not being negligent.
 
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
I am sure if you walked in there to buy tires and all they had on the shelf were T rated tires, they would have had no problem installing them.


Yes. Indeed.

Also while the letter rating DOES carry legal heft in Europe it DOES NOT in the USA or Canada. Anyone that claims their company insurance policy in the US prevents them from mounting say a T tire on an ordinary passenger car that came with H rated tires in the US or Canada is blowing smoke out the arse.

The fact is that the highest legal speeds in the USA are covered by that T rating of 118 mph anyhow.

I agree that most of that nonsense is in fact an attempt to upsell the customer a more expensive item.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
You are not without liability either, with tires that don't meet the OEM requirements. This is a far-fetched example, but if you are at-fault in an accident and the plaintiff's lawyer inspects your vehicle and finds equipment that doesn't match the OEM requirements, you could be up a creek without a paddle. It's not unlike running overloaded or towing more than the car is certified to tow.

There's a lot more to a speed rating than the nominal top speed. Nissan chose H-rated tires for a reason. What that reason is is known to me, and probably unknown to you as well. All we know is that's what they specified. Toyota's RAV4 is no different, at least for the previous generation. Every last one of them, from ones equipped with 16" steelies to those with 18" alloys, had H-rated tires.

The shop who refused to install the T-rated tires is protecting everybody involved, his business and your insurability as well.


THIS...you are putting yourself at legal risk if not in actual risk...the fault/responsibility of any accident in which you may be involved can be pointed to those tires...and you.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I recommend reading here:

http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html

Key point: ability of tire to handle speed is often far below the speed rating. Tire failures occur most often in S and T rated tires.


Not so fast...

Member Capriracer, the author or that article, has clarified here what he means when he says this:
Quote:
To further complicate matters: Almost all tire failures occur in S and T rated tires. Hardly any occur in H and higher speed rated tires.
I recommend that everyone use a minimum of an "H" speed rating.


He said in another thread that he recommends H and above because they generally allways have a cap ply that strengthens the tire. But, tires below H can have a cap ply, too, if they're good quality. He has said he just says H or above to simplify his recommendation, and what he's really recommending is the cap ply.

My T-rated Hankook H727s, for example, do have a cap ply. It's noted in the construction specs on the sidewall

Here's exactly what he said in another thread(emphasis added by me):
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2774714/1
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer


For practical purposes, tires have to have a cap ply to get an H speed rating. Needless to say, higher speeds require AT LEAST one cap ply.

- and it gets a little complicated here, so bare with me:

S and T rated tires may or may not have cap plies - but the presence of a cap ply is sometimes needed in order to pass lower speed rated tests - particularly for larger tire sizes. (I'm not talking rim diameter, here.)

Some tire manufacturers will put cap plies on S and T rated - even in small tire sizes. Good for them.

Because I want to make a simple to remember recommendation, I use the shortcut to H speed rating, but the truth is that a cap ply is what I am driving at.

Weight? Cap plies hardly weigh anything, so you can't go by that.

If you want to know if a particular tire has a cap ply - ask the manufacturer!! It's required by law on the sidewall of the tire so it's no secret.


Here's even more:
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

And allow me to address the issue of S and T rated tires failing at speeds below 75 mph:

I think there is a bit of confusion. I am NOT saying the tires are failing due to the speed. I am saying that tires are failing in spite of their being used at speeds well below the rated speed.

I am sure everyone is aware that rubber deteriorates over time. That's the reason why there are warnings about old tires. Included in this is the issue about the stresses that tires expreience - how underinflation and over-loading contribute to tire failures.

But that's stating things in "black and white" terms. This is decidedly about shades of gray. The percenbtage of tires that fail is pretty small - but it is measureable.

What is going on is that the edges of the steel belts experience a lot of stress and that's where a tire failure can start. By putting on a cap ply, the belt edges is not as subjected to as much centrifugal force, plus the cap ply acts like a bandage to keep even failed belt edges from getting worse.

And that's why I recommend H speed rated tires at a minimum.
 
I never install a tire with a lower speed rating on any of my cars- with the exception of winter tires on the wife's 3er(and that fitment is specifically approved by Munich). Maybe there wouldn't be a decrease in performance or safety if I went with a lower rated tire, but I'm not going to chance it just to save a few $$$.
 
The shop was being ridiculous. I could understand if the tire's load rating was wrong but not for the speed rating.
 
I could see them having a problem putting "T" rated tires on a Corvette, but I think these tires are made for non-high performance vehicles, like that of the OP's...they had absolutely no reason to refuse to install them on this vehicle...I personally don't care for "H" and up speed rated tires as they ride too stiff for my liking...
 
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I've been to a tire shop that won't go under the OEM speed rating. They consider it a liability issue. I asked the owner of the shop, and he said he might install winter tires or even standard tires with a lower speed rating if the car owner signed a waiver of liability should the tire blow out due to inadequate speed rating.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
The important thing is what the owners manual says .

they tried telling me that I needed H rated on a 2010 accent. And I pulled out the owners manual,also the door jam doesnt specify a speed rating.

they were just being silly trying to say I needed to match the oem tires which isnt true.

After a 5min polite conversation with the manager they saw it my way.

now if your door sticker or manual does say H rated.. then you need H-rated. Thats normal and a liability thing.


My Magnum had H-rated tires (225/60R18) and the shop had no problem installing a set of S-rated Winterforces!
 
Originally Posted By: Eddie
The law states that replacement tires must be of the same Load and speed rating or higher. It is not just the speed rating but, the handling charteristices that go with the rating. The shop did the correct thing to protect you, except for the wait. Ed


Please link to said law.
 
Originally Posted By: hypervish
I don't blame the shop for refusing to mount the tires. Who wants that type of liability for every customer that walks through the door with the same circumstances?


I suspect the shop would have NO hesitation in putting a set of (S-rated) snow tires on the same Rogue!
 
It's just utter bunk that in the US with our LOW sustained speeds on highways that a S or T rated tire is failure prone. At all.

Unless like another poster indicated, the tire was very old, or defective from the very start. This is just NOT true. The whole reason for those ratings in Europe was to prevent failures when driven at sustained speeds. In the USA that means that even the lowly S rated product has a VERY comfortable margin before any questions at all could be raised. S rated tires are capable of sustained speeds up to 112 MPH. The highest US speed limit is only 85 MPH.

Also since the speed ratings are ONLY legally applicable in
the EU, they have no legal weight in the US or Canada (not sure about other countries)

US DOT does NOT subscribe to them either.

This is all about businesses trying to upsell to much more expensive products. The Load Rating Index does carry legal weight here and generally should be followed, especially if you are ever going to tow something. But for most passenger cars a close match is sufficient, it doesn't have to be exact to be perfectly safe.
 
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