Shop refused to mount my tires

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The "speed" rating has more to do with sidewall stiffness and its effect on handling behaviors... Important for safety, no?

Glad some businesses are willing to turn jobs away to ensure that safety isnt sacrificed to save a few bucks.

You can argue going fast or handling all you want... THe vehicle was designed for a specific tire application.

Sorry.


This. Speed rating for the tire is not the same as the speed at which that vehicle can be safely driven on those tires. It's a common misconception that "I have T-rated tires, so I can drive up to 118 MPH on those tires with this car". Maybe you can, maybe you can't.
 
Originally Posted By: Hollow
Originally Posted By: exranger06

I plan on going back to this shop right after I get the tires mounted and show them that there's another shop that has common sense, where I will be taking my future business. Then tell the guy he's a [censored] moron for not mounting them and wasting my time.


I'm sorry that a store following liability rules angers you so.

I do hope going back and acting like an insulting jerk makes you feel better about yourself and your perceived injustice.

+1 Going back and acting like a jerk and being rude isn't going to get you very far in life. You're acting very immature.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The "speed" rating has more to do with sidewall stiffness and its effect on handling behaviors... Important for safety, no?

Glad some businesses are willing to turn jobs away to ensure that safety isnt sacrificed to save a few bucks.

You can argue going fast or handling all you want... THe vehicle was designed for a specific tire application.

Sorry.


This. Speed rating for the tire is not the same as the speed at which that vehicle can be safely driven on those tires. It's a common misconception that "I have T-rated tires, so I can drive up to 118 MPH on those tires with this car". Maybe you can, maybe you can't.

According to Tire Rack, it DOES only have to do with the maximum safe speed of the tire.:


Quote:
How to Read Speed Rating, Load Index & Service Description
Speed Rating
In Germany some highways do not have speed limits and high speed driving is permitted. Speed ratings were established to match the speed capability of tires with the top speed capability of the vehicles to which they are applied. Speed ratings are established in kilometers per hour and subsequently converted to miles per hour (which explains why speed ratings appear established at "unusual" mile per hour increments). Despite the tire manufacturer's ability to manufacturer tires capable of high speeds, none of them recommend the use of their products in excess of legal speed limits. The maximum operating speed of a vehicle must be limited to the lowest speed rated tire on the vehicle.

Speed ratings are based on laboratory tests where the tire is pressed against a large diameter metal drum to reflect its appropriate load, and run at ever increasing speeds (in 6.2 mph steps in 10 minute increments) until the tire's required speed has been met.

It is important to note that speed ratings only apply to tires that have not been damaged, altered, under-inflated or overloaded. Additionally, most tire manufacturers maintain that a tire that has been cut or punctured no longer retains the tire manufacturer's original speed rating, even after being repaired because the tire manufacturer can't control the quality of the repair.

Nowhere do they mention handling characteristics at lower speeds.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35
 
Originally Posted By: redhat
My Accord calls for a 215/60/16 94H and I'm running a 205/65/16 95T Blizzak.

Who wants to sue me?


What route do you take home from work? I'll brake check you and we can let the fun start!

On second thought, I don't think that will work. I don't have the right size tires on my car (185/65-15 vs 195/60-15 ... HUGE difference) and I think the ambulance chasers would short circuit.
 
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I have Y rated tires (186mph) on my 2006 Scion tC which tops out @ 130. I don't know what the factory spec is and couldn't care less. I always buy the BEST tire possible, because my life depends on them. Why people buy tires that are cheaper then the OE spec is beyond me. The OP could have avoided this headache by purchasing the correctly spec'd tire in the first place.

I also recommend you find a good shop that treats you like a valued customer and stick to it.

My cousin works at Toyota and does all my tire mounting, balancing and custom alignment based on the specs I give him. Zero questions asked and he's never turned me down because I didn't bring him the OE spec'd tire...
 
I recently brought a set of tires to Discount Tire (ie, I did not buy them there) to get them mounted balanced and installed and the first thing the guy did was check that size and speed rating matched the vehicle.

Everyone is in CYA mode these days and I honestly don't blame anyone or any business for being that way.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
I have Y rated tires (186mph) on my 2006 Scion tC which tops out @ 130. I don't know what the factory spec is and couldn't care less. I always buy the BEST tire possible, because my life depends on them. Why people buy tires that are cheaper then the OE spec is beyond me. The OP could have avoided this headache by purchasing the correctly spec'd tire in the first place.

I wasn't cheaping out on tires. I wanted an excellent all-season tire with good treadlife, handling in all weather conditions, and low road noise. My research pointed me to these tires. And as I said, many other Rogue owners have these exact tires and are very happy with them. And Tire Rack AND Discount Tire Direct showed these tires as an acceptable tire for this vehicle. I never realized they were a lower speed rating until the shop pointed it out to me. Not that I care they're a lower speed rating; I'm sure they will perform great and I plan on keeping them.
 
Reminds me of a golf trip to Nashville in October. We were asked for ID everytime we ordered an alcholic beverage - it was obvious we are of drinking age.
One of our golfers "raged" at the stupid law that forced the servers to ask for ID.

Our answer that "it is the law - get over it", didn't work for him ... either ...
 
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I don't go about looking for higher rated speed tires, but I do look at the tire tread design as well as the temp/traction ratings. I could care less about speed ratings because I can't go more than 55 on commute mornings & evenings anyway!
And tickets cost WAY to much and california is money hungry.
 
This is the problem with owning your own business. It's an impossible battle. The shop owner does the right thing, and now he's getting blasted all over the internet. if he mounts the tires, and gets sued, he can't feed his family.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
This is the problem with owning your own business. It's an impossible battle. The shop owner does the right thing, and now he's getting blasted all over the internet. if he mounts the tires, and gets sued, he can't feed his family.

IF he mounts the tires he WILL get sued? Yeah, right
smirk.gif
If I was the business owner, I'd mount the tires and take my chances. What are the odds of anyone driving over 120 mph AND having a tire blow AND having someone killed/injured, AND having someone sue the shop? And if they did sue, the shop has insurance. At the very least I would have them sign a waiver saying the shop isn't responsible. And that's something I would've gladly done if the shop offered.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The "speed" rating has more to do with sidewall stiffness and its effect on handling behaviors... Important for safety, no?

Glad some businesses are willing to turn jobs away to ensure that safety isnt sacrificed to save a few bucks.

You can argue going fast or handling all you want... THe vehicle was designed for a specific tire application.

Sorry.


This. Speed rating for the tire is not the same as the speed at which that vehicle can be safely driven on those tires. It's a common misconception that "I have T-rated tires, so I can drive up to 118 MPH on those tires with this car". Maybe you can, maybe you can't.

According to Tire Rack, it DOES only have to do with the maximum safe speed of the tire.:


Quote:
How to Read Speed Rating, Load Index & Service Description
Speed Rating
In Germany some highways do not have speed limits and high speed driving is permitted. Speed ratings were established to match the speed capability of tires with the top speed capability of the vehicles to which they are applied. Speed ratings are established in kilometers per hour and subsequently converted to miles per hour (which explains why speed ratings appear established at "unusual" mile per hour increments). Despite the tire manufacturer's ability to manufacturer tires capable of high speeds, none of them recommend the use of their products in excess of legal speed limits. The maximum operating speed of a vehicle must be limited to the lowest speed rated tire on the vehicle.

Speed ratings are based on laboratory tests where the tire is pressed against a large diameter metal drum to reflect its appropriate load, and run at ever increasing speeds (in 6.2 mph steps in 10 minute increments) until the tire's required speed has been met.

It is important to note that speed ratings only apply to tires that have not been damaged, altered, under-inflated or overloaded. Additionally, most tire manufacturers maintain that a tire that has been cut or punctured no longer retains the tire manufacturer's original speed rating, even after being repaired because the tire manufacturer can't control the quality of the repair.

Nowhere do they mention handling characteristics at lower speeds.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=35


Your response quotes the laboratory conditions under which speed ratings are certified. Did you notice that it's under controlled temp? Specified load? For only 10 minutes at that speed?

Real world is far different. Tires age. Inflation pressures vary from tested. Vehicle weight and load varies. Temperature varies.

So, the vehicle manufacturer specifies a minimum speed rating that accounts for those variables. It may be rated for a higher speed than the speed at which you intend to operate your vehicle.

The shop is following those guidelines.

Sorry that you don't like it.

But go back and rant at the shop owner....see where that gets you...I have always found that yelling at someone and being confrontational convinces them to come over to my point of view....
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: whip
This is the problem with owning your own business. It's an impossible battle. The shop owner does the right thing, and now he's getting blasted all over the internet. if he mounts the tires, and gets sued, he can't feed his family.

IF he mounts the tires he WILL get sued? Yeah, right
smirk.gif
If I was the business owner, I'd mount the tires and take my chances. What are the odds of anyone driving over 120 mph AND having a tire blow AND having someone killed/injured, AND having someone sue the shop? And if they did sue, the shop has insurance. At the very least I would have them sign a waiver saying the shop isn't responsible. And that's something I would've gladly done if the shop offered.

I should have "could" get sued. If he mounts improper tires, the car owner could never exceed 55mph and still get sued. A waiver wouldn't mean a thing in a court room full of lawyers. The insurance might cover the suit, or it might not. If the Insurance says the shop owner was negligent, they may not cover him, and I guarantee, they drop him after the suit if he can stay in business. the headache of being in business isn't worth it to me anymore because of these scenarios.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The "speed" rating has more to do with sidewall stiffness and its effect on handling behaviors... Important for safety, no?

Glad some businesses are willing to turn jobs away to ensure that safety isnt sacrificed to save a few bucks.

You can argue going fast or handling all you want... THe vehicle was designed for a specific tire application.

Sorry.

Sidewall stiffness? What happens when you put snow tires on it? Or go up or down a trim level and they put different profile tires on? Or put 35 psi in instead of 30?
I don't think there are many street cars where you say the minor difference in sidewall stiffness is going to make them handle significantly safer or less safe.
Sidewall stiffness is a minor tuning option after the tire compound, alignment, shocks, even brakes... How many people buy OEM shocks, or brakes?
I don't think the Nissan engineers are pushing any handling or tire limits on a Rogue...
Personally I've never noticed a significant change in balance on the Neon that's run everything from skinny 13" snows to 15" R compounds which was vast changes in every aspect of tire construction and performance, but the basic handling was still the same...
I would be interested to see any cases where a lawyer proved that minor variances from OEM tire size and construction was a significant cause of an accident? What kind of testing regieme would be needed to prove it? I think it would be a 7 figure job to have it stand up in court.
IMO the loose nut behind the wheel or gross negligence on maintenance has got to cause 99.9% of car accidents, not minor details like tire speed ratings, or using monroe shocks...
 
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I most likely will NOT go back to shop to chew the owner out. I just need time to cool down and in the meantime, vent and play out these fantasies in my head (or in this case, type it out on BITOG). My anger is something I've been working and improving on. I'm sure by the time I get the tires mounted on Friday I'll be much better and will put all this behind me.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06

IF he mounts the tires he WILL get sued? Yeah, right
smirk.gif
If I was the business owner, I'd mount the tires and take my chances. What are the odds of anyone driving over 120 mph AND having a tire blow AND having someone killed/injured, AND having someone sue the shop? And if they did sue, the shop has insurance. At the very least I would have them sign a waiver saying the shop isn't responsible. And that's something I would've gladly done if the shop offered.


Take the odds of any given person suing him, then multiple by the number of customers he has had. Odds are it is high enough for him to have insurance and to do things that generally avoid him getting sued.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
I most likely will NOT go back to shop to chew the owner out. I just need time to cool down and in the meantime, vent and play out these fantasies in my head (or in this case, type it out on BITOG). My anger is something I've been working and improving on. I'm sure by the time I get the tires mounted on Friday I'll be much better and will put all this behind me.


Fair enough, although I wouldn't bother fantasizing about what you could do. Just move on, now you know how you have to do things to get things done to your liking.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: redhat
My Accord calls for a 215/60/16 94H and I'm running a 205/65/16 95T Blizzak.

Who wants to sue me?


What route do you take home from work? I'll brake check you and we can let the fun start!

On second thought, I don't think that will work. I don't have the right size tires on my car (185/65-15 vs 195/60-15 ... HUGE difference) and I think the ambulance chasers would short circuit.
I hope you're kidding. This brake-check antics by mroonic idiots is getting way out of hand. Next guy who does this to me is in for BIG trouble. I dont roll over for asinine antics, buddy.



- Speed rating? who cares. How 'bout LOAD rating?!
 
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Originally Posted By: whip
This is the problem with owning your own business. It's an impossible battle. The shop owner does the right thing, and now he's getting blasted all over the internet. if he mounts the tires, and gets sued, he can't feed his family.


And note that he didn't sell the tires in the first place, so he's making even less money on the job then he would have otherwise
frown.gif
 
You are not without liability either, with tires that don't meet the OEM requirements. This is a far-fetched example, but if you are at-fault in an accident and the plaintiff's lawyer inspects your vehicle and finds equipment that doesn't match the OEM requirements, you could be up a creek without a paddle. It's not unlike running overloaded or towing more than the car is certified to tow.

There's a lot more to a speed rating than the nominal top speed. Nissan chose H-rated tires for a reason. What that reason is is known to me, and probably unknown to you as well. All we know is that's what they specified. Toyota's RAV4 is no different, at least for the previous generation. Every last one of them, from ones equipped with 16" steelies to those with 18" alloys, had H-rated tires.

The shop who refused to install the T-rated tires is protecting everybody involved, his business and your insurability as well.
 
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