service writers lie and pretend to know stuff

[Tosh]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
It's called the "buying more car than you can afford, so you can't afford to do the scheduled maintenance when it's due" syndrome.

The salesmen tell me it's almost impossible to get a large percentage of their customers to buy a vehicle in the price range that's right for them. Everyone wants the $55k Denali.

As a result, I've got customers riding around in three year old vehicles that are out of warranty. They can barely afford the notes, should have bought a lot less vehicle, but the finance companies approved their car loans just like the folks who bought too much house.

They have $500 power windows that don't work, $1000 ABS modules that have gone out, and mom and the kids are sweating because of the $1200 a/c repair that's needed.

I think I get your point, but what scheduled maintenance would have saved the power windows or AC?

 

[Tosh]

From my several run-ins with service writers, I have come to the conclusion that if you immediately make it known to them how intimately knowledgeable you are about the car, its typical specific problem areas, warranty coverage, TSBs, etc., that they don't even bother trying to play their games, and in fact just want you taken care of quickly and effectively so they can make up for it on a more suitable victim.

I discovered this at Ferman Acura in Tampa when I brought my CL in with warped rotors for which I had brought a Acura TSB covering this problem. The service writer at first loudly insisted that brakes are a wear item not covered by warranty and that he had never heard of any TSB on this. When I showed it to him, he went inside his office and came back a minute later. His expression and demeanor were so different, and when he stuck out his hand to shake mine, for a couple of seconds I thought he actually was a different person. He scheduled a time and got me a rental, and he and the other service writer agreed that this was a pervasive problem on CL/TLs, they saw a dozen or more a week, and that they had new rotors put on their own TLs. A year or so later (when I was back for a new tranny), I asked a customer with a new-ish TL what he was in for. He said a brake job for vibrating brakes, but he didn't know about a TSB for this issue - and the stealership hadn't told him - so he was paying for the whole job himself. So be an informed customer!

 

[MrCritical]

Well, you're not going to believe this, but you were probably both right.

TSB's do not extend warranty coverage from normal, only explain to the dealer that this is an ongoing problem, and what to do to stop it.

Now, Acura probably had a special policy to take care of the repair outside the normal warranty coverage on wear items, which is plainly spelled out in your warranty manual.

I probably get 8-10 calls a day from someone who took their car to an indy shop saying "they told me there's a recall for this intermediate steering shaft knock, speedometer that stops working", ect.

No there's not. There's a TSB on what to do to fix the problem with the shaft, and a special policy on the speedometer, but TSB's do not extend warranty coverage.

 

[lovcom]

Don't know about GM, but Toyota TSB's are kind of like recalls, in that they are fixed free of charge. If there's a TSB for a Toyota, it is fixed free.

 

[javacontour]

I call [censored]. There may be SOME TSB's that are fixed for free. But I think there are TSB's for things like different oil specifications, such as allowing 5W20 oils in some Toyota's that said 5W30 in the filler cap. There are also revised repair and service methods.

So just because there is a TSB, there is no guarantee of recall like treatment of the issue.

 

[punisher]

You have recalls, programs, and TSBs. We know what a recall is. A program is issued when there is a known problem and the manufacturer decides to take care of it at no charge to the customer (a la the 92M77 Ford engine mount program). A TSB is just information on updated/revised service procedures, parts, labor/flag ops, or revised specs.

 

[BuickGN]

My battery went out in the TL at 1.5 years. The dealer would have replced it free of charge but I opted to spend $140 on an Optima and avoid the inevitable new problems the dealer would cause. I don't trust them to install a battery.

 

[MrCritical]

How do you justify spending Acura money with a dealer you can't trust to change a battery?

There's a GM dealer in my market, been in business longer than we have. The word of mouth on their service is awful. They'll undercut a minimum profit deal from another dealer in a heartbeat.

That's not the problem. The problem is the same people who buy a vehicle there year after year come to our shop asking me can I help them with their service cause their dealer is so lousy.

First of all, I can't help them. GM doesn't allow cross-line warranty except in extreme emergency. And someone who knew better that goes back to the same lousy dealer over and over isn't an emergency in my book.

Their customers bring me their repair orders and I see them charged for non essential service and maintenance, and some things that should have been warranty. I explain what we would have done in the same situations at our dealership. The hundred or so dollars they saved on the front end cost them literally hundreds over the life of their car. But they keep going back like rats to peanut butter.

I know all the salesmen at our dealership personally, and how they do business. Dealer X with the lousy service can't even advertise his salesperson's names, because they will likely not be there by the time the ad hits the newspaper.

I still wouldn't trade the way we do business for the way they do business.

 

[MrCritical]

Gary, I have to elaborate. The manufacturer has more stranglehold on the dealer than you imagine.

Want to build a new GM dealership? Per GM it has to be within a specific distance of either a shopping mall, or a Wal-Mart.

They tell you how big to build it. How much parts inventory. How many shop stalls. How much automobile inventory to have. Sure, you can have more, but not less.

Want the hot selling models? You'll take X number of the slow sellers, or you won't get them.

Tools? They don't ask, just send them to you. Plus a bill, of course. Training? They sign you up, whether in person or over satellite. Don't have a good CSI rating? You won't get that warranty labor rate increase you want.

Want the hot selling GMC Acadia? Send someone to school on 6 speed transaxles and guess what? More tools. Hybrid Tahoe? More training, tools. And more bills.

 

[Cutehumor]

so your saying you won't do a warranty repair because someone bought their vehicle at a competing dealership??

 

[Audi Junkie]

I think he means across GM marques.

 

[Duffman77]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
First of all, I can't help them. GM doesn't allow cross-line warranty except in extreme emergency. And someone who knew better that goes back to the same lousy dealer over and over isn't an emergency in my book.


Hmmm, too bad. GM Canada doesnt make that restriction.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical
Gary, I have to elaborate. The manufacturer has more stranglehold on the dealer than you imagine.

Want to build a new GM dealership? Per GM it has to be within a specific distance of either a shopping mall, or a Wal-Mart.

They tell you how big to build it. How much parts inventory. How many shop stalls. How much automobile inventory to have. Sure, you can have more, but not less.

Want the hot selling models? You'll take X number of the slow sellers, or you won't get them.

Tools? They don't ask, just send them to you. Plus a bill, of course. Training? They sign you up, whether in person or over satellite. Don't have a good CSI rating? You won't get that warranty labor rate increase you want.

Want the hot selling GMC Acadia? Send someone to school on 6 speed transaxles and guess what? More tools. Hybrid Tahoe? More training, tools. And more bills.


I'm sure it's not cheap. No one rides free ..but obviously there's money to be made or they wouldn't be there. They're just not competitive. For such a high ante, anyone who is into it demands a pretty steep ROI. No two ways about it ... it's a monster that is hungry.

You're seeing a good bit of spleen venting here ..but it's not all without just cause. Warranty work has more nightmares than fairytales and the consumer is often left to cope with sharks who are part of the same hunger engine. I've been to dealers who would have scheduled me in 3 days if I was a cash paying customer ..but since it was warranty work, I had to wait 3 weeks. Stuff like that. Now there are all kinds of programs to improve this ..and they've done some good in many areas ..but it's not like you purchase a new car every year (most don't) so the reputation/impression can linger for over a decade over a botched service event that happened in 1998

 

[MrCritical]

I could be wrong, but I believe the inability to cross line warranty came from the U.S. Govt. back in the '70's when GM was the largest company in the world. Something about violating antitrust laws.

Ford/Lincoln/Mercury have no such restriction.

So you have to have a franchise to do the warranty work.

I strongly support freedom to do business where you desire(I do so myself) but cannot understand why someone would continue to return where they are treated so poorly. I guess some folks would rather hear what they want to instead of the truth.

 

[astraelraen]

Are there seperate Lincoln/Mercury dealers though?

From what I understand of GM's structure, they actually think of Buick/Pontiac/GMC as a different "set" than Chevy. Whereas Ford/Lincoln/Mercury are pretty much all together.

I've seen plenty of Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers. I can't think of a Lincoln/Mercury dealer around here without Ford included.

From that standpoint I can see why they have that policy. If you buy a new Pontiac at ABC Buick/Pontiac/GMC and go to get warranty work at XYZ Chevy dealership they aren't the same thing. even though it's all GM and its probably got an equivalent Chevy.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: MrCritical


I strongly support freedom to do business where you desire(I do so myself) but cannot understand why someone would continue to return where they are treated so poorly. I guess some folks would rather hear what they want to instead of the truth.


One of my dealers has "fired" customers that are too expensive to deal with.....the type that come in for expensive warranty work, moan about little stuff, and writes nasty letters to the manufacturer even if the dealer bends over backwards to resolve the issue. I'm pretty goods friends with my service advisor now and I can really sympathize with these guys sometimes. He tells me that it is just plain scary to serve certain customers who demand it all and won't give an inch no matter what the dealer does.

Having said that, I think a lot of dealers deserve what they get. It's no accident that there is more bad blood rather than goodwill between dealers and customers. The unfortunate part is that the good dealers suffer as well.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: astraelraen
Are there seperate Lincoln/Mercury dealers though?


I've seen plenty of Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealers.


Around here, the Ford dealers are separate from L/M. In fact, its probably a "big city" thing - I've never seen GM brands combined here in the Chicago (except for GMC trucks), but head downstate and there are all combinations. I think I've seen Chevy/Pontiac/Olds/Buick/Cadillac/GMC in a few very small towns downstate.

 

[bdcardinal]

my dealer used to be Lincoln/Mercury/Mazda. the ford dealer down the street shut down, and we picked up their Ford franchise. before we were Ford, we could work on any vehicle Ford Motor Company made. although if it was a Jag/Aston Martin/Land Rover we usually recommended they go across the street to the much more expensive dealer for those brands. on my ford part lookup, i get all ford, lincoln and mercury models. mazda is seperate and we have seperate lookups for mazda parts, as well as carry both ford and mazda parts. even mazda parts that are a mazda sticker on a ford box, for warranty purposes.

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I call [censored]. There may be SOME TSB's that are fixed for free. But I think there are TSB's for things like different oil specifications, such as allowing 5W20 oils in some Toyota's that said 5W30 in the filler cap. There are also revised repair and service methods.

So just because there is a TSB, there is no guarantee of recall like treatment of the issue.


I never said a TSB is a re-call. I said it can be like a re-call in that Toyota treats them as free fixes. This is not [censored]. This is fact. And yes, not all TSB's mean something has to be fixed, I understand that.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I call [censored]. There may be SOME TSB's that are fixed for free. But I think there are TSB's for things like different oil specifications, such as allowing 5W20 oils in some Toyota's that said 5W30 in the filler cap. There are also revised repair and service methods.

So just because there is a TSB, there is no guarantee of recall like treatment of the issue.


I never said a TSB is a re-call. I said it can be like a re-call in that Toyota treats them as free fixes. This is not [censored]. This is fact. And yes, not all TSB's mean something has to be fixed, I understand that.


To eliminate any ambiguity, you said

Quote:


Don't know about GM, but Toyota TSB's are kind of like recalls, in that they are fixed free of charge. If there's a TSB for a Toyota, it is fixed free.



You didn't say some, you said TSB's are kind of like recalls, in that they are fixed free of charge.

You didn't say SOME are fixed free of charge.

Please learn to read. I wasn't arguing your use of the word recall, I was calling [censored] to your assertion that they are fixed for free.

Even TSB's to address a known issue doesn't guarantee a free fix.

So I still call it