Secret to Long Engine Life

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quote:

Originally posted by BlackF250:
If hitting the redline is bad for your motor I am in big trouble!! I like to give my truck a nice Italian tune-up at least twice per week. For anyone who does not know what that is, it entails entering the highway at about 25-30mph then mashing the pedal to the floor until about 85mph or so.
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I have strangely enough never had a carbon build up issue, and my vehicles always feel peppier than identical vehicles driven by other people. In fact whenever I take out my Crown Vic with 234,000 miles (wait, that must be a mistake, it's not a Honda!!
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) which is now primarily driven by my girlfriend I give it an I.T.U., and she always questions why it feels so much friskier after I have driven it? I just tell her it must like me better.
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I don't think that type of driving hurts the longevity of the engine at all (other parts maybe, but not the engine) as I drive full throttle every chance I get, but yet still only saw 2.5ppm of lead in my last 6200 mile interval. As long as you don't go WOT on a cold motor, I don't think you're shortening it's life with that practice.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
I don't think that type of driving hurts the longevity of the engine at all (other parts maybe, but not the engine)

I agree, if you aren't exceeding the fatique limits of the metal in the engine, over heating anything and have good lubrication everywhere, it shouldn't hurt. Many if not most modern engines fall in that catagory.

Some engines, particularly some older designs don't.
 
quote:

Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
I don't think that type of driving hurts the longevity of the engine at all (other parts maybe, but not the engine)

I agree, if you aren't exceeding the fatique limits of the metal in the engine, over heating anything and have good lubrication everywhere, it shouldn't hurt. Many if not most modern engines fall in that catagory.

Some engines, particularly some older designs don't.


My car has spend the last 50k miles between 3k rpm and the rev limiter from frequent (about 25 a year) attedence at local autoX events and spirited driving. ~200,000 miles, I burn no oil and still have proper compression.

VG30E in a 1985 300zx. This motor is also found in Nissan trucks, the Nissan Maxima, the Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager, and a few other vehicles. The engine design was introduced in 1984 in the 300zx and was still used in I believe 2002. Good designs will last when well maintained even when pushed.
 
I think it is a matter of the right care. Use top quality oil, oil filter, and air filters. When I say top quality I'm not saying run Redline at $7.00 a quart but a high quality Dino like GTX or Valvoline. Change all three when they need to be. If it says change the oil at 7500 miles change it at 7500 miles. Spin on the best oil filter you can. And put the best filtering air filter in the air box. I drove my first Volvo engine to 283,300 miles on 3,000 Dino OCI's. They were not easy miles in any respect. Too many people try to save a buck with cheap materials or extended "Dino" drains and all your doing is slowly killing the motor. There isn't a motor built today that will not go 150K plus miles with basic oil changes. The difference between a 100K mile motor and a 250K mile motor is the 100K mile motor had .99 cent oil, $2.00 oil filter and the 250K motor had $2.50 oil and a $5.00 oil filter. So how much are you really saving. $21.00 a year based on a 7,500 mile oil changes. Those are the reasons why the techs and service writers at my dealer always say to the good customers NEVER buy an "ex-lease" car off us. I have my own schedule for doing routine maintenance on the car. It says 20K brake fluid changes yeh right try every 40K to 50K. My master cylinder and calipers are all 17 years original.
Went to a manual transmission so I don't have to spend $90 a year doing transmission services.
Some things I do more than recommended such as replacing fan belts. Put new ones on every year because I hate having something stupid break. Same with the radiator fluid it's changed at 1/2 the recommended interval or once a year. I use to do a major tune up every year. Finally got over replacing the cap, rotor and wires every year and now going to every other year. Still replace the fuel filter, air filter, plugs and set the dwell and timing once a year. There are at least 3 employees at my dealer that want a shot at my car when I sell it because of the care and maintenance I put into the car. And when you have 297,000 miles on a car and people want to buy it you must be doing something right. Of coarse I don't think they want to pay me top dollar they just want a good reliable car.

[ March 25, 2004, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: ALS ]
 
I have posted this before: 1986 SAAB Turbo(oil cooled) convert(rare) 250K+ miles, Valvoline 10W-30 oil with SAAB oil filter every 7500 miles and not a single engine/tranmission repair. I am going to take it out of storage this weekend and start it up for the first time since October. Also, 1987 Grand National 115K HARD driven miles, nothing but Castrol GTX 10W-30 and Fram oil filter (Jiffy Lube) and it runs beatiful! My 1997 SAAB 9000 Turbo has a 10K mile drain innterval with dino oil. Change the oil regularly and enjoy your car. I'll take dino oil every 3-5K over Amsoil every 25K anytime!
 
I agree with you buster on everything but the auto-rx. I have done 3000 mile changes using Castrol GTX for 250,000 and have oil consumption issues. The auto-rx has reduced this 4 fold so far and I plan for all my engines to get this stuff about every 100,000 or so. Dino gets carbon build up with 3000 miles for sure. Don't know about synthetic yet but my guess is it does also but not as much as the dino.
 
No, I never go above 2,500rpm or so until my truck is fully warmed up. I start it up, let it idle for about 10sec to 1min depending on how cold it is, then proceed to drive like grandma until the coolant gauge is fully up to normal. Even then I don't drive it too hard until I feel the oil is up to operating temp.
 
BlackF250, which engine do you have ... the 5.0L or 4.6L?

My Dad's 1994 4.6L in his Mercury wouldn't run worth spit after the 100,000 mile mark. We had replaced all the typical things ... iginition components, filters, etc ... to no avail.

He changed the dino oil every 5,000-6,000 miles in the 6 years he owned it and used the same fuel adds I've always used ... occasional Red Line SI-1 and isopropyl alcohol.

I drove my Honda Civic pretty hard the entire time I had it. The "Italian Tune Up" procedure is quite familiar to me.
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Both cars were sold at 132,000 miles. Dad's Ford barely ran while my Honda ran strong.

--- Bror Jace
 
People around here never say "Italian Tune Up". They say they're gonna go burn out the cobs (cobwebs).
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quote:

Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
The answer is simple: rigorous maintenance. Scheduled, booked, prepared.


I'm sure a vehicle maintained to this standard will last a long time and will be a desirable used car.

Personally I have a lazier approach. I check things frequently, change fluids on a regular schedule. I will not run vehicle with low fluid levels, low pressures or overheating. This will kill a lot of engines. The points of defective emissions systems or cooling killing engines is well taken. On newer cars, emissions or misfires will set MIL before it is too far out of spec.

Changing out hoses at 3 years means lots of perfectly good hoses go in trash. Today's hoses are of better quality than 25 years ago when this was good advice. Shocks and tires on an as-needed basis. Both may exceed 50,000 miles and be in good condition. I don't flush a well maintained engine, waste of time and money.

Keep your ear tuned to your vehicle and check if things don't "sound right." Glance under vehicle when you walk away checking for leaks. Overdoing maintenance certainly beats neglect, but costs time and money.

[ March 26, 2004, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: tpi ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by TheTanSedan:
[QB]

If it looks worn, get it repainted. Replace the carpet at some point, have the seats re-upholstered, put in a nice stereo, etc. Replace suspension bushings, steering components as they wear down, buy the best parts around: have a little fun with it. "Feelings" have to separated from rational reasons for actions.

"I am what I drive" is appropriate to being 14-years old, not to an adult. And especially not to an adult with the responsibilities of family. In other words, while I want to have fun and enjoy the vehicle, it must first be reliable and safe.

QB]

Brownsedan, I think you have a good maintenance philosophy, although I think you are abit obcessive on hoses. I haven't seen a bad hose in the last couple of decades of replacing hoses at 6 to 10 year intervals and I live in a hot climate too.

I'm presently going through an 8 year old car I recently bought and replacing most parts that I think will need replacing sometime in the next 5 years. I'm going for better than original where practical. My goal is no surpises on trips.

Your advice to keep after the little stuff and keep the car cosmetically immaculate is particularly good. I've seen a lot of cars get junked because of a relatively small problem.

The reason they got junked was because they had a bunch of other things wrong with them and they looked abused, so the owner saw a hopeless POS instead of a car with one problem to be fixed and put back on the road.
 
Bror Jace, My Crown Vic has the 4.6, and my 250 has the 5.4. I am very surprised that your Mercury ran so poorly. Some typical Ford things to check would have been IAC valve or MAF sensor. Also the 94's had a problem with valve seals leaking. Did you notice excessive oil consumption? This would lead to plugs fouling off. All of these modular motors are known to go to at least 300k if taken care of, just ask any livery or Taxi driver!
 
Everything I know about Long Engine Life, I learned in the navy. Well, most everything. They instilled the importance of preventative maintenance and always being ready to get underway. 1. Engine OCI 3k with dino and 7.5k with syn.and the best oil filter you can afford. 2. Meticulous schedules of air filter, fuel filter, differential, and other mtce items. 3. Proper engine warm up and cool down. 4. Never let gas tank get below one half. Another navy rule. Helps prolong electric fuel pump! IOW never wait until the fuel low light comes on to get gas. 5. Turn off all electrical accessories before shut off, includes windshield wipers, fans, AC, radio. The access. and the alternator will last longer. 6. Accelerate and brake moderately. Drive with the traffic, do not try to go faster or slower than the traffic conditions allow. 7. Monitor tire condition and air pressure meticulously. Keep 4 to 6 lbs extra air pressure in tires.
 
I should clarify some points made above. I am not a believer in "benign neglect". It is short-sighted, expensive, and irritating as **** when the vehicle fails to perform as expected.

Should I -- as this 2001 vehicle has now "depreciated" to one-half its original sales price and has about 70k on it -- reduce expenditures? Or continue as before with the plan to go over 200k. Trouble-free.

First, my idea of "long engine life" is for the motor to be as close to new as is possible. To do this entails inspections -- internal & external -- where the additional cost of parts is, relatively, cheap. "Long engine life", for me, translates as "reliable as a brand-new car". If I decide to make a 2,100 mile trip starting tomorrow, (in two long days), then proper maintenance ensures the least likelihood of "unscheduled maintenance" (the costliest of all and the most likely to be shoddy).

Second, while any number of parts are, granted, better than a quarter-century ago, plenty of todays cars also have engine bays that are airflow-restricted. (Our Jeep is so hot that it is a good idea to have gloves on year-round ). Add to that the degradation of hose exteriors by ozone/smog and the "cost" is slight when one runs A/C seven-plus months of the year.)
And, this heat, this lack of cooling air, has its effects on other items as well. Do them all at a reasonable interval and be done with it: Vacuum lines, fluid hoses, etc. (For this vehicle, coolant changes annually (25k) and hose/fastener replacement every two years).

Sure, I could wait out the inevitable decline of componentry, but why? To reduce out-of-pocket expense? (Penny-wise behavior). Increased resistance in the electrical system is, alone, a huge contributing factor to vehicle decline. Yet the oems often do a very poor job of ensuring a good "loop" for that electricity to flow. Why not spend the extra on grounds, upgraded power harnesses and the rest? (Recently converted this Jeep to relay-driven headlights. Result [beyond the advantage of E-code lamps] is 13.70V at the lamps -- same as across battery/alternator -- and removing this high-amp load from the dash harness.

Bottom line, a car is a thing to get me from point A to point B. Reliably, and for as long as possible . . .

. . and "possible" is what is at the heart of any debate here. Keep one car 15 years -- to avoid the expense/depreciation/taxes/insurance costs of another, interim vehicle -- and one is ahead by (if buying a $20-25k vehicle) by well over $30,000 which can be invested for retirement ( plus interest and and dividend as that money increases.)

thus, the cost of scheduled replacement of parts/components is unbelievably cheap.

Granted, one needs to buy a vehicle with this in mind (no bottom line "economy cars"; those who purchase one after another fool themselves); to plan and to follow-thru (I'm by no means perfect at this), but the money argument sells itself.

If it looks worn, get it repainted. Replace the carpet at some point, have the seats re-upholstered, put in a nice stereo, etc. Replace suspension bushings, steering components as they wear down, buy the best parts around: have a little fun with it. "Feelings" have to separated from rational reasons for actions.

"I am what I drive" is appropriate to being 14-years old, not to an adult. And especially not to an adult with the responsibilities of family. In other words, while I want to have fun and enjoy the vehicle, it must first be reliable and safe.

(You want expensive maintenance, look at small private airplane requirements. And then consider how long they last. I recently came across an airplane my father owned more than thirty years ago when it was brand-new (V35B Bonanza). The current owner has traveled as far as India on a 1900-hour engine.)

Finally, if I have kept to a rigorous schedule and disaster strikes: lay-off, down-size, outsource to name a few (in my case, a devastating health failure) then I have a very high expense item (second only to home ownership) under nice control. Maintenance can then, reasonably, be delayed for an interim. An excellent vehicle, paid for, that needs only minor maintenance and gasoline is a far better thing than selling an impractical vehicle -- taking a huge loss in depreciation and unearned dividend and interest per above -- and buying a second-hand poorly maintained vehicle.
(Gasoline cost is -- even with recent rises -- still irrelevant to ownership [except for those who bought waaaay beyond their means] as it constitutes but 6-7% of total cost of ownership. If it ever hits the adjusted high (1980: $3.50) of 12%, then the equation changes somewhat).

Buy smart, and maintain the same way.

[ March 26, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by gtm245:
People around here never say "Italian Tune Up". They say they're gonna go burn out the cobs (cobwebs).
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Yeah,Thats cuz "Italians Tune-Ups" hurt.
Also used this on the wifes car sine I had to test out nen hose at 5am.I blew a pretty good cloud.I wonder if it will help it feel "friskey".

[ March 27, 2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: RichR ]
 
I whole heartedly agree it is not just the engine, but the entire vehicle that needs preventative maintenance for long life. One this list, we are all dedicated to oil and filter changes, even air filters. However there are a lot more systems that tend to be neglected such as coolant, brake fluid, trans fluid, and differential fluid. All these need to be included in a maintenance program for Long Vehicle Life, not just the engine.
 
I agree that maintenance is definitely the key!

I do realize the benefits of synthetic oil. I started using synthetic oil in 1979 and used only synthetic for a long time at reasonable intervals (probably 5K).

It's weird but now since dino oils are so good I'm see my self going back towards dino oils at 3 to 5K intervals.

I'm not trying to provoke a synthetic vs. dino discussion (I understand the benefits) but I really think I can get good long service out of my cars using oil like Chevron Supreme. I actually like doing maintenance on my vehicles. I'm weird enought that I look FORWARD to doing oil changes -- sometimes I even do them early because I feel like working on my car!
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Good maintenance all around is a huge factor. With oils though, wear differences seem to be so close in many engines today so I really think keeping the engine clean and free from deposits is your best bet, which was the point of this thread. I think we get hung up on small differences in wear that really don't mean that much.
 
I agree dino oil is so much better now by keeping the engine clean say with Lube Control and Delo400, I am split on my opinion on synthetic or dino as with cost wise. Heck if wear is about the same with synthetic and dino for normal driving conditions and type of engines, just keep the engine clean with Lube Control, but synthetic does it's thing and it's a **** good oil. I am going to try the Delo 15-40 when my mileage reaches 90,000 with the lube control and go with a 5,000 mile interval with oil analysis to see if I am doing the right thing. Maybe solvency is what is for gasoline engines..I don't know
 
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