Researching compact cars for my wife. Opinions wanted.

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Guys,

I'm researching compact cars. My wife is in college and will be driving around 50 miles per day for the next 4 years or so. Right now we have a minivan that is beginning to wear out. We are having lots of minor issues, some tranny issues are cropping up, and we've spent a fair amount on various things over the last few years. Here is what we want in the car (in order of importance):

1) Super reliable
2) Big enough interior for 2 adults and 2 kids (ages 5 and 8) to ride comfortably.
3) Really good gas mileage.
4) Looks decent--not like a little box. My wife wants something that looks nice.
5) Relatively inexpensive. No more than $15-17K.

We haven't driven anything yet--we've only researched (a little bit) on the web. Our top two choices are the Toyota Corolla (probably the "S" model) and the Honda Civic. Both are about the same price and appear to be very similar on paper. They get the same mileage, but the Toyota has a slightly more powerful engine (130 hp vs 115 hp). I'm just soliciting opinions and experiences from the group.

Thanks in advance!
 
Get a Honda Civic. They are great cars and look much better than a Corolla, very quiet and gets 30 city/ 36 highway MPG. My daughter just got a Civic and for your price range ($15-17K) it is a very nice car. Especially with the end of year sales, you can get a great deal on a Civic LX. Plus Hondas hold there value pretty good, not to mention that Civics now use timing chains.....so there is no needed timing belt changes down the road.
 
Get a late model used Camry 4 cylinder. Low 30's for highway MPG, plenty of family room, reliable. Unless the compact cars you mention actually don't look like "a little box" to you.
 
Look at used Lexus ES 300's. Not the sludge engines (check that part out). They are bigger but still give good mileage. Front wheel drive and good in the snow. Well built for safety. You should be able to find one with lower miles for $15-17K. Don't put your wife in a compact car (not safe).
 
If you can afford new, either Toyota or Honda should work great for you. I wouldn't buy one used because they're overpriced and the previous owner may not have maintained an "indestructible" car well-- but new, great! I'd check insurance on both because the Honda is popular with the "tuner import" (rice) crowd. Also check into the Pontiac Vibe/ Toyota Matrix, wagon versions of the Corolla.

Check what the 60k maintenance calls for, and if the dealer adds to the list (signs of a crooked service dept). If you get an automatic, see how easy it is to change the fluid/filter-- look for a drain plug on the pan for example.
 
Check out epinions.com. These folk have invested their money already, and provide insight on drive and ride aspects of most cars. Newly released models may not be as represented as older models.
 
I really like my Mazda 3 GT Sport. You can get hatchback or sedan, sporty/loaded or basic, and 2.0L 148hp or 2.3L 160hp engines. The five speed is very slick.
The latest generation of Corollas and Civics just didn't compare with the 3 in terms of handling, performance, and style when I was looking at cars.

[ July 23, 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: rpn453 ]
 
I'd say Civic or Corolla. Both cars are relatively inexpensive, reliable, roomy for 4 adults, rather easy to service, and have a very good retaining value. I like Civic, but I think that Corolla is much smoother and a bit more plesant ride, especially if you have to drive a lot. I don't know about the seats, make sure you'll get the car with seats you (or your wife, or both) like. I think that the best way to see if you like the car is not a test drive. Go to a rental place and rent and drive each car (preferrably the exact model you're considering) for a couple of days. That way you can really notice most of advantages and disadvantages of each. 15 min. test drive at the dealership can't provide that. You can also see how much each option is going to cost. I like www.carsdirect.com , they have real prices and discounts listed. If dealership asks for a higher price than carsdirect - dealer is trying to rip you off.

Regards,
 
I was in the same both 2 months ago. I am a college student again at age 34 and commute 125-150 miles a day roundtrip.

I was seriously considering a Corolla or a Nissan Sentra but one drive of an 04 Jetta TDI changed my mind forever.

Yes, the TDI costs slightly more but you get so much more in return:
1. 7 airbags (side, curtains,pillar, front etc..)
2. 4 wheel disk brakes
3. Cruise, power windows/locks A/C standard
4. Many more features that are standard..

I am now averaging 43 mpg and was told it would take about 20,000 miles before the engine is fully broken in. My mileage average is about 75% highway at 85 mph and 25% city driving.

I can drive about 600 miles before my low fuel light/buzzer goes on and don't have to worry about refueling until the week is over.

Diesel fuel is about 10 cents cheaper where I live.

The power (torque) is incredible. I can cruise up a steep mountain pass at 100 mph without downshifting (I live at 7,000 feet altitude in Colorado).

My oil changes are every 10,000 miles after the first oil change at the 5,000 mark.

The build quality of the Jetta TDI is much better than the low end foreign econo cars.

Here are some cons of owning a TDI:

1. Not good for short trips since diesels take a while to warm up completely. I have heated seats which work great when it is cold outside.

2. I expect to degunk the intake at the 50,000 mile mark. Darn EGR and CCV emissions garbage on board has caused intake coking on previous generation TDIs. I don't mind removing the intake and EGR to do the cleaning when it is time to do so.

3. Timing belt change can be costly and cause serious engine damage if not done correctly.

3. Dealer service SUCKS and most techs are clueless about the TDI. You are better off doing all of your maintenance yourself.

4. VW has poor reputation for previous models. However, I haven't heard of any major problems with the 04 models yet. My only problem is that I had a stiff wind blow off my filler lid when I was refueling. The lid hinge is plastic and snapped due to some strong gusts. Being replaced under warranty with no problems.

I bought a TDI Wagon for the extra room and because it gets 1 mpg better on the highway than the Sedan.


Good luck w/ your decision.
 
Folks generally make a mistake when the assumption is made that purchase/resale price and fuel mileage are the main considerations.

Edmunds.com has a very good little page (see Site Directory; click on: "True Cost to Own") with which it is easy to compare new and/or used cars to see the actual out-of-pocket and long-term costs of owning a particular car.

If one wants more detail, then financial advisor/columnist Scott Burns of the Dallas Morning News has in the past two years dealt with this in an excellent series (DMN.com). There are also fleet-oriented software programs, and a few freeware ones.

Gasoline tend to be not more than 6-8% of the cost of owning a vehicle for the average driver.

It would be greatly to ones' benefit to "run the numbers" as to what actual, long-term costs would be. Borrow or design a spreadsheet to calculate ALL COSTS specific to a given situation!

I, too, agree that I would not ever put a family member in a compact car. One's life changes too drastically with but one good wreck (and airbags don't change physical laws of big versus small).
In the same way with SUV's . . they are twice as likely to roll over as an ordinary car.

I'd look into a 2003 FORD Crown Victoria LX (Watts-link rear, rack & pinion steering) for long-term reliability and good highway mileage. (Again, run the number to see what the percentage increase in fuel consumption past X mpg.) There is a very good reason that fleets much prefer this car over it's FWD GM and Chrysler competition, and its' long-term maintenance cost. (www.crownvic.net)

Whatever else is done, search Tire Rack and other sites and dump whatever tires the car comes with and get [5] of the very best, highly-rated tires that'll fit the budget. Same with brakes and shocks on a vehicle with over 25k.

Be sure to have a separate bank account for the vehicle as to maintenance, "expected-dates-of-replacement" items (again, tires/brakes/shocks/starters/alternators, etc) and put aside a few bucks as often as possible until one reaches $600 or so.

Once one has narrowed down choices it is vital to KNOW the best service department/technicians in ones area. Pep Boys or Firestone or lesser independents ARE NOT wanted to be working on a car with high reliance norms. (And rebuilt parts only go on cars one is selling, not ones being kept.) A good relationship with the right people will allow keeping the vehicle a maximum amount of time and mileage with a minimum of headaches and downtime.

"Getting rid of it" because it is "having problems" is simply a way of saying, "I'd rather throw good money away". Why? Keep one car for the 12-15 year maximum -- avoiding a new one at the six/seven year mark -- and one has saved the money "wasted" that could have gone into an interest-bearing account or retirement fund.
Any other approach is cheating the future for the present.

(No matter what the specific situation is with that old minivan, please take these comments with a grain of salt; it is recognized that the decision to get rid of it -- for a clean start -- on a new situation is already made).

Cars are WAY too expensive (when all costs are factored) not to try to run ALL the numbers in ones favor.

It's not been easy to get my wife of five years to see the truth of this. Cars need maintenance, and attention. I spent three hours tonight (when it was cool) getting the underside clean on the JEEP after lubing front end, checking torque on a few fasteners, and generally -- with a good halogen light -- giving it a good eyeball as I like to do every six months. (As with the above -- and in posts elsewhere on BITOG -- I believe in getting my true cost of ownership down to cents-per-mile; doing what maintenance I can [especially the little stuff that techs don't want to]; keeping it extra-clean so that problems are visible and the tech, when I speak with him, knows to respect what I'm trying to do.

Does this vehicle have "high" gas mileage? No, but beating EPA ratings for mpg has been no more difficult than it has with any car I've driven the past thirty years. I trained myself, read a lot, and bought the service manuals without regard to whether I'd do the work myself. The payoff is over the long-haul.

And the Internet has been a great place to search out potential, long-term problems on specific makes and models.

Sorry to go on so long. But "small" and "high mpg" may NOT be exactly what you want as you research and contemplate this ongoing expense.

Liking, or not liking cars, has nothing to do with this topic. It has to do with family safety and long-term well-being in all ways.

Good luck.

[ July 24, 2004, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]
 
I generally keep vehicles awhile. HOWEVER, when I have to replace tons of stuff on a vehicle at some point you have to quit throwing away money on it. Here are a few of the things I've had to do on my WELL-MAINTAINED 1997 Trans Sport (with only 88K miles) in the last 18 months:

1) Replace the rack & pinion--TWICE! It almost caused my wife to wreck.
2) Replace the exhaust manifold gasket. All piece-of-crap GM's with the 3.4 had this issue. You'd think GM could have figured this one out!
3) Replaced rear break cylinders FOR THE SECOND TIME! They keep leaking.
4) Replaced cruise control throttle cable. It stuck the pedal to the floor and almost cause my wife to wreck.
5) Replaced the heater hose.
6) Replaced windshield washer pump.
7) Power sliding door quit working. I haven't fixed that.
8) The radio went out. I did fix that.

And now my tranny is acting like its about to go out (shudders badly, etc.). If I had what I would consider a decent vehicle I wouldn't mind paying to get it fixed, but my problem has been buying POS American cars (I'm sorry, but I've bought new cars from all of the big 3 and I'm done with it). I know that last comment will catch flack, but I don't care. If a vehicle has this many problems after 7 years and 88K miles I don't want to throw away more money on it. Period. There comes a time to cut one's losses.

Thanks for the investment advice. My 401K account is bouncing back nicely, and mine and my wife's Roth IRAs are doing well. My children's 529B college funds are doing well too. Also, I haven't had any car payments for a few years. I don't put the purchase of a new car ahead of planning for the future. I'm not sure why that seemed to be assumed.

I do, however, put a premium on reliability and convenience. Once a vehicle begins to break down every other month, the frustration factor outweighs the cost of a new car. Who wants to load the family up for a family vacation only to have the car break down? It is not worth it.

David
 
BTW, we looked at the Toyota Matrix last night. That is a really nice little car! It drove nicely and there seemed to be plenty of interior space.
 
The Matrix is a pleasant little car! Civic is nice too. If saving money is part of the equation. and can live without p/w, p/l, a Saturn ION 1 can be had for about $13,300.00 with an auto trans, $12,400 with manual. Adding all the options on an ION brings the price up to Civic/Matrix territory, and in that realm, the ION pales in comparison.

End of model year really muddies the waters to what you can get for your money. Some great deals can be had on somewhat larger cars such as Altimas, Accords, Camry's, etc...this time of year.
 
Ford Crown Vic, Chevy Impala, or Jeep Cherokee (not the Grand) should suit your needs. Buy used and save big bucks. I prefer the Cavalier but it may be too small for what you are looking for. Very reliable, excellent gas mileage and you can get one used real cheap.
cheers.gif
 
After over 20 years of high mileage VW Jetta diesels, the last 2 had such problems that I looked around. After a long search for value versus dollars, I chose a 2003 Toyota Corolla S. I now have 145,000km on it and it's the most reliable, cheapest to run car that I've ever owned.
 
Yeh, the Corolla S is nice. We drove one of those when we drove the Matrix. In fact, we were really going there to drive the Corolla, but saw the Matrixes (Matrices? :-) ) next to it and drove one of those as well.

After comparing the two, my wife actually preferred the styling of the matrix. I would like to have a trunk, but the Matrix *was* a cute car. Did I just say "cute"? She's rubbing off on me.

We're still a few weeks out from making a decision. I'm IT guy with another round of layoffs coming up in a few weeks (about the 6th or 7th in the last few years), so I'm going to wait and see if I'm in or out before committing to something.

David
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned auto insurance as a consideration. My insurance bill is higher than my fuel bill. This would be weigh favorably for a Crown Vic/Marquis.
 
Kestas, you might take another look at the (admittedly too long) post I made above; the point of which was to consider ALL costs associated with ownership.

The point you make is exactly right, though . . . one can suddenly see a different light when the numbers for ones' specific situation are revealed.
And make choices acccordingly.

Safety, first and last, and money as only what it deserves to be . . but the means to an end.
 
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