Got To Be Careful Shoping for Used Cars with 1st Gen GDI

[Stumpy]

My wife's 2009 CX-9 Mazda has 245K miles and recently had a 2nd in two years water pump replacement! This CX-9 has the FoMoCo 3.7 V6 with the water pump hidden behind the timing cover and requires pulling the drive train. $4500 in two years and no more. Time to get a replacement. Wife likes the Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. Our price range is $15-$18K for a 2015/2016ish model. After much research:
1. Honda is out due to the issues with the so called "Earth Dreams' engine. Fuel dilution, oil consumption and very un-Honda like quality issues kill it.
2. Mazda CX-5 is out. Mazda claimed that their "Skyactiv" technology eliminated the GDI carbon deposits on the intake valves. It pretty much did but their tech apparently pushed the deposits back into the intake manifold and holy moley! The pix and vids on Youtube are incredible. It is out.
3. The Rav4 in our price range has an MPI engine! Praise the Lord! And a non-CVT transmission! RAv4 is in contention.
4. Acura RDX added to the mix. Built on the same chassis as the CR-V but equipped with a 3.5 V6 that is not GDI. Sure, it still has a timing belt that has to be replaced every 100K but that beats the carbon issue any day.

Folks in the used car market looking at vehicles with 1st Gen GDI engines had better be on their toes. I know Hyundai, Ford and Toyota have all added MPI back to their engines to supplement the GDI and to wash the intake valves clean and reduce the carbon issue.
Looks like I'll confine my used vehicle search to MPI "old tech" models right now. Amazing how the push to meet the former, former, former President's ridiculously high EPA fuel mileage standards led us from normallly aspirated engines to mostly 4's and 6's turbo'd and GDI'd. Throw CVT's in the mix and even the normally highly regarded brands are having reliability and durability issues.

 

[SC Maintenance]

So you did a google search and condemned the pretty much legendary Honda K24?

 

[Rand]

So you did a google search and condemned the pretty much legendary Honda K24?

I thought those ended in 2011, he is looking for a 2015 or 2016

 

[oil pan 4]

No being careful, just avoid gen 1 gdi all together.

 

[fantastic]

Buying a vehicle used is a gamble. But to your point the GDI adds some growing pains. However, the amount you'd have to pay to clean up some valves may be small in comparison to a new car obviously. One time in my lifetime of vehicles I did spend like $1500 on an aftermarket warranty for my 98' Eldorado that I knew was notorious for head gaskets. Funny part was that I'd listed it for sale & cashed in on the prorated warranty. I then went down to FL in it while it was for sale & that's when it popped it's gasket. Darn the luck! I've wondered how the warranty would've handled it but if there's anything I do know it's not buying those $200-$300 warranties. They are definitely near toilet paper value. Just have to change oil per their terms though. In insight $4500 would've covered a real nice warranty & POSSIBLY covered the WP repair cost if it was in the agreement. Good luck on buying your next vehicle!

 

[GSCJR]

Acura RDX

Has a 2.0T; no timing belt.

 

[JTK]

I'm curious as to where all these carbon choked, late model Mazda CX-5 engine videos are? I've seen maybe one or two on severely neglected CX-5's.

You'll have to dig pretty deep to find MPI only engines on used vehicles as time goes on. Especially in the rust belt. How long as GDI been a thing now, 12-15yrs?

I know the first time I even heard of it was back in 2004 with the last year of the Isuzu Rodeo in the US. Isuzu offered a GDI 3.5L engine as an option for 2004. It was a Isuzu/GM joint venture effort as was all of Isuzu USA back then.

 

[eljefino]

Buying a vehicle used is a gamble.

Buying a new vehicle is, too, who knows what awful tech will rear its ugly head years down the road?

OPs is looking in the sweet spot, new enough to still be reliable, old enough that problem motors become evident with millions of miles of real-world experience. Sounds like the RAV4 is in his future.

 

[fantastic]

Buying a new vehicle is, too, who knows what awful tech will rear its ugly head years down the road?

Yeah, there's a reason they say not to get a new first year model.

OPs is looking in the sweet spot, new enough to still be reliable, old enough that problem motors become evident with millions of miles of real-world experience. Sounds like the RAV4 is in his future.

That's what I picked up from the post & why I mentioned used.
I've never bought new & still feel that there are good used vehicles out there it's just the buying process & figuring it all out can be a headache as I'm sure you're well aware of.

 

[Dave Hess]

CX5 with non CVT transmission is a very good vehicle.

Only downside is 2.5L engine is thirsty.

 

[Danh]

I thought those ended in 2011, he is looking for a 2015 or 2016

K24s were used at least through 2017. All 2015/16 and some 2017 CRVs used the K24W with DI. I have a 2015 and, while it has fuel dilution typical of any DI engine, zero problems, no oil consumption at 95k miles.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

The stupid water pump location has nothing to do with GDI itself

The worst problems with GDI are the turbos.

The Mazda will rust before having any carbon problems.

Also, in the year range you're looking at, the non-turbo Forester didn't get GDI until 2019. Available with a CVT or a 6-speed manual (the latter also went away in 2019). The CVT isn't a problem as long as you change the fluid regularly. There are some good videos on YT on how to do it.

You should also consider the Prius V

If you really want low tech, get a Journey! It even has a 4-speed automatic and a 2.4L I4 with no direct injection, made through 2020.

If something a little smaller is acceptable, consider Honda's own HR-V. It didn't get GDI until last year with the new design, so the previous gen doesn't have DI at all. Honda makes a very good CVT, and changing the fluid is very easy on it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I thought those ended in 2011, he is looking for a 2015 or 2016

K24V were used in different versions up to 2018 at least - might be even later? The later years were GDI which is what the OP is trying to avoid, but I have not heard about them having any GDI problems. I am unsure if the VCT actuator rattle was still a thing in later years?

Even the few GDI engines that have issues simply require a walnut shell blast. Other than a few notable exceptions - I would be more concerned about transmissions and electronics than GDI, but thats just me I guess.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You should also consider the Prius V

I thought Prius V was known for oil burning and clogging EGR?

I like your other picks though.

 

[edyvw]

My wife's 2009 CX-9 Mazda has 245K miles and recently had a 2nd in two years water pump replacement! This CX-9 has the FoMoCo 3.7 V6 with the water pump hidden behind the timing cover and requires pulling the drive train. $4500 in two years and no more. Time to get a replacement. Wife likes the Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. Our price range is $15-$18K for a 2015/2016ish model. After much research:
1. Honda is out due to the issues with the so called "Earth Dreams' engine. Fuel dilution, oil consumption and very un-Honda like quality issues kill it.
2. Mazda CX-5 is out. Mazda claimed that their "Skyactiv" technology eliminated the GDI carbon deposits on the intake valves. It pretty much did but their tech apparently pushed the deposits back into the intake manifold and holy moley! The pix and vids on Youtube are incredible. It is out.
3. The Rav4 in our price range has an MPI engine! Praise the Lord! And a non-CVT transmission! RAv4 is in contention.
4. Acura RDX added to the mix. Built on the same chassis as the CR-V but equipped with a 3.5 V6 that is not GDI. Sure, it still has a timing belt that has to be replaced every 100K but that beats the carbon issue any day.

Folks in the used car market looking at vehicles with 1st Gen GDI engines had better be on their toes. I know Hyundai, Ford and Toyota have all added MPI back to their engines to supplement the GDI and to wash the intake valves clean and reduce the carbon issue.
Looks like I'll confine my used vehicle search to MPI "old tech" models right now. Amazing how the push to meet the former, former, former President's ridiculously high EPA fuel mileage standards led us from normallly aspirated engines to mostly 4's and 6's turbo'd and GDI'd. Throw CVT's in the mix and even the normally highly regarded brands are having reliability and durability issues.

1st generation GDI engines were out in 1998. This is just poor engineering at this point.

 

[jakeuten]

167K miles on my 2016 CX-5 with no carbon cleanings and still getting a combined 27 MPG (1 above sticker). While I’ve never peeked at my intake valves, I’m sure I will begin to notice some decline in performance… car can still do a 7.6s 0-60 run when asked as well.

 

[riverblue]

The stupid water pump location has nothing to do with GDI itself

The worst problems with GDI are the turbos.

The Mazda will rust before having any carbon problems.

Also, in the year range you're looking at, the non-turbo Forester didn't get GDI until 2019. Available with a CVT or a 6-speed manual (the latter also went away in 2019). The CVT isn't a problem as long as you change the fluid regularly. There are some good videos on YT on how to do it.

You should also consider the Prius V

If you really want low tech, get a Journey! It even has a 4-speed automatic and a 2.4L I4 with no direct injection, made through 2020.

If something a little smaller is acceptable, consider Honda's own HR-V. It didn't get GDI until last year with the new design, so the previous gen doesn't have DI at all. Honda makes a very good CVT, and changing the fluid is very easy on it.

A minor correction: Honda's HR-V, including the 2025 model, offers the last of the port-injected K-series engines (see here). It'll adopt the 2025 Civic's base direct-injected 2.0 L in the 2026 model year, when it undergoes (in Honda's parlance) its mid-model change.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

A minor correction: Honda's HR-V, including the 2025 model, offers the last of the port-injected K-series engines (see here). It'll adopt the 2025 Civic's base direct-injected 2.0 L in the 2026 model year, when it undergoes (in Honda's parlance) its mid-model change.

Glad the port injected lasted longer than I thought

 

[dfarr67]

So you did a google search and condemned the pretty much legendary Honda K24?

I'll have to remind my Honda how bad it's supposed to be

 

[TiGeo]

I have 4 GDI vehicles in my fleet with 2013 being the earliest. The carbon build up boogie man is way overplayed online. I had my valves in the Sportwagen done at 75K with the water pump, they looked fine. My son's Focus has no running issues and is almost 12 years old/135K and has never been cleaned. A carbon cleaning is ~$500 last I checked, this isn't some massive repair cost if you ever have to have it done over a long-term ownership.