Got To Be Careful Shoping for Used Cars with 1st Gen GDI

So you did a google search and condemned the pretty much legendary Honda K24?
Yes! the 2.4 in my daughter's 2005 has 230K miles and is bulletproof. This issue is that a few years after is when Honda started using the "low tension/friction" piston rings in the 2.4 that lead to the gummed up rings and excessive oil consumption issues that sullied the ending years of that great engine.
 
My wife's 2009 CX-9 Mazda has 245K miles and recently had a 2nd in two years water pump replacement! This CX-9 has the FoMoCo 3.7 V6 with the water pump hidden behind the timing cover and requires pulling the drive train. $4500 in two years and no more. Time to get a replacement. Wife likes the Mazda CX-5, Honda CR-V and Toyota RAV4. Our price range is $15-$18K for a 2015/2016ish model. After much research:
1. Honda is out due to the issues with the so called "Earth Dreams' engine. Fuel dilution, oil consumption and very un-Honda like quality issues kill it.
2. Mazda CX-5 is out. Mazda claimed that their "Skyactiv" technology eliminated the GDI carbon deposits on the intake valves. It pretty much did but their tech apparently pushed the deposits back into the intake manifold and holy moley! The pix and vids on Youtube are incredible. It is out.
3. The Rav4 in our price range has an MPI engine! Praise the Lord! And a non-CVT transmission! RAv4 is in contention.
4. Acura RDX added to the mix. Built on the same chassis as the CR-V but equipped with a 3.5 V6 that is not GDI. Sure, it still has a timing belt that has to be replaced every 100K but that beats the carbon issue any day.

Folks in the used car market looking at vehicles with 1st Gen GDI engines had better be on their toes. I know Hyundai, Ford and Toyota have all added MPI back to their engines to supplement the GDI and to wash the intake valves clean and reduce the carbon issue.
Looks like I'll confine my used vehicle search to MPI "old tech" models right now. Amazing how the push to meet the former, former, former President's ridiculously high EPA fuel mileage standards led us from normallly aspirated engines to mostly 4's and 6's turbo'd and GDI'd. Throw CVT's in the mix and even the normally highly regarded brands are having reliability and durability issues.
GDI technology has improved significantly, and like alot of technology had issues early on. I wonder if alot of this could be attributed to not using a top teir premium fuel? When I sold vehicles for Lexus the number of customers that complained about certain models requiring (Highly recommending) premium blew my mind. The first S4 models that were DI from memory, Audi recommended walnut blasting the valves and heads every 40-50ish thousand miles to remove carbon buildup. I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
 
GDI technology has improved significantly, and like alot of technology had issues early on. I wonder if alot of this could be attributed to not using a top teir premium fuel? When I sold vehicles for Lexus the number of customers that complained about certain models requiring (Highly recommending) premium blew my mind. The first S4 models that were DI from memory, Audi recommended walnut blasting the valves and heads every 40-50ish thousand miles to remove carbon buildup. I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
The fuel never touches the backs of the valves with DI - running premium or not has zero to do with it. Nothing will 100% remedy IVDs beyond port injection.
 
Yes! the 2.4 in my daughter's 2005 has 230K miles and is bulletproof. This issue is that a few years after is when Honda started using the "low tension/friction" piston rings in the 2.4 that lead to the gummed up rings and excessive oil consumption issues that sullied the ending years of that great engine.
I think you might be refering to the oil burn / oil control ring issue - 2008 - 2011. There was a TSB - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10083874-2280.pdf

Or is there additional information on K24 low tension rings / oil burn? If you have more data - please post - it can be helpful to other people searching this topic.

You originally said you were concerned about GDI, not low tension rings? As you can see from the comments there are many members here with K24V GDI engines with higher miles and no issues. I have no preference on what you buy at all, but that particular concern at least seems unfounded?
 
GDI technology has improved significantly, and like alot of technology had issues early on. I wonder if alot of this could be attributed to not using a top teir premium fuel? When I sold vehicles for Lexus the number of customers that complained about certain models requiring (Highly recommending) premium blew my mind. The first S4 models that were DI from memory, Audi recommended walnut blasting the valves and heads every 40-50ish thousand miles to remove carbon buildup. I'm sure that wasn't cheap.
No, its the nature of the beast. No port injector shooting gas over the top of the intake valves means no cleaning. Top Tier gas means nothing when fuel is blown straight into the chamber and not over the valves.
 
My brother has a V6 RDX at my suggestion. Think the last year was 2018 or 2019. Very quick.
Yeah, we are gravitating towards the RDX. Even with timing belts, that particular V6 series has been around for years and bulletproof.
 
I think you might be refering to the oil burn / oil control ring issue - 2008 - 2011. There was a TSB - https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10083874-2280.pdf

Or is there additional information on K24 low tension rings / oil burn? If you have more data - please post - it can be helpful to other people searching this topic.

You originally said you were concerned about GDI, not low tension rings? As you can see from the comments there are many members here with K24V GDI engines with higher miles and no issues. I have no preference on what you buy at all, but that particular concern at least seems unfounded?1st Plenty of individual stories I have read on the later 2.4's. I just cannot believe that hundreds of owners talking about "soaking" the pistons with various solvents to try to get the oil consumption down.

Buying a vehicle used is a gamble. But to your point the GDI adds some growing pains. However, the amount you'd have to pay to clean up some valves may be small in comparison to a new car obviously. One time in my lifetime of vehicles I did spend like $1500 on an aftermarket warranty for my 98' Eldorado that I knew was notorious for head gaskets. Funny part was that I'd listed it for sale & cashed in on the prorated warranty. I then went down to FL in it while it was for sale & that's when it popped it's gasket. Darn the luck! I've wondered how the warranty would've handled it but if there's anything I do know it's not buying those $200-$300 warranties. They are definitely near toilet paper value. Just have to change oil per their terms though. In insight $4500 would've covered a real nice warranty & POSSIBLY covered the WP repair cost if it was in the agreement. Good luck on buying your next vehicle!
Yes sir! I'm just trying to put as many know odds in my favor. Cannot swing a new car down payment or payments. I have never bought a new car. Got a kid starting college this fall as well, so used car it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Yeah, we are gravitating towards the RDX. Even with timing belts, that particular V6 series has been around for years and bulletproof.
Yea they're bulletproof as long as you change the timing belt religiously, dont mind checking the spark plugs on a regular basis while they loosen themselves, can stomach the occasional flattened exhaust cam lobes, and dont mind your oil pump barfing oil all over your driveway.

Not to imply these issues are rampant and happen to all of them, but they have their issues like any other engine. I only have two in the family and the above problems are just what I've had to address in the last few months alone.

As I mentioned in another thread, I have four GDI vehicles in the family and between the four with well over 400,000 combined miles between them, I've had to replace exactly one water pump and two coils. Thats it.

Not sure why GDI is still such a boogeyman on this forum.
 
Yes sir! I'm just trying to put as many know odds in my favor. Cannot swing a new car down payment or payments. I have never bought a new car. Got a kid starting college this fall as well, so used car it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So clearly budget is a factor and Post #1 says you have a new wp in the Mazda you currently own. Did they use OEM? Why did the first replacement fail so soon?

If OEM you should be good for at least 100k miles. Many go way beyond that. Just drive it until it milkshakes, which might be never. At that point it won't be worth another wp.

Seems like a lot of tuition to just keep what you have which is freshly repaired?
 
Keep googling you talk yourself of everything out there with “issues” except ones that barely sell or owners don’t care to whine on internet about.

Good luck
 
$500?! Maybe in conjunction with other work, but it's usually north of $1500 on a VW product.
Wife got charged $400 to perform one (no clue if needed for real) while they did an ignition wiring hiring harness replacement on Tiguan alone cost about $900. I hours billed for jobs and drop off and pick up made no sense. My last visit to a very competent VW dealer and found an Indy.
 
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Huh? Taking off the intake manifold on an EA888.3 and doing this isn't a $1500 job at my shop.
It's around $250/hr here. Usually a walnut blast is intake manifold r/r time plus .5 per cyl, so 5 hours plus parts.

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It's around $250/hr here. Usually a walnut blast is intake manifold r/r time plus .5 per cyl, so 5 hours plus parts.

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Just looked at my invoice - they charged me $300 for walnut blast and $600 for water pump replacement. Assuming some of that water pump labor could be shared, we are around $500. Clearly we aren't at $1500....I've never heard of anyone sharing costs that high for that service on the EA888 gen 3 4 bangers in the VAGs.
 
The fuel never touches the backs of the valves with DI - running premium or not has zero to do with it. Nothing will 100% remedy IVDs beyond port injection.
That depends, since some have the injector aimed at the intake valves.
 
That depends, since some have the injector aimed at the intake valves.
Which DI cars have this? I realize some have gone to a MPI so port and DI (and yes, for those running fuels with higher levels of additives will help...octane on its own will not) but most of what is being disucssed here is simple DI and the fuel isn't touching those valves in any way.
 
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