Pat's [Goss] Perspective: thicker oil

[Patman]

I think viscosity choice is very dependent on how you use your vehicle, and for most people and most engines, you will get a long life out of the recommended viscosity. But it doesn't hurt to tweak it just a little in some cases. My Honda specifies 5w20 and based on how gently I drive it, I think that works just fine, especially since the coolant temperature doesn't get too hot (generally runs between 170-180F, so I'm sure the oil temp isn't above 190F too often) My Corvette calls for 5w30 and that's what I'm running but instead of the typical 3.0-3.1 HTHS 5w30, I'm running one with a 3.58 HTHS, and I think that's the better choice for longer life on a harder driven LT1 (and GM agrees since the 2019 Corvettes come with 0w40 with a 3.53 HTHS) My wife's BMW calls for a 0w40 and that seems about right to me.

One recommendation that I really feel strongly is way off is what BMW is recommending for most of it's new turbo engines (other than those in the M2, M3, M4, M5, etc.) They now recommend 0w20 even though for the longest time these engines were using a thicker 0w30 with an HTHS of around 3.5. So now they've gone from a 3.5 HTHS to a 2.6 or 2.7 HTHS in a turbo direct injected engine? What are they thinking?? Those engines might just barely make it to the end of the warranty, but beyond that I think it's pretty dicey, especially for people driving hard in hot weather that might also have 1 or 2 % fuel dilution. Yikes! I would definitely be running an oil with an HTHS of no less than 3.5 in one of those engines.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by javacontour
Did the manufacturer call for BG products?

While I don't necessarily disagree with what he's saying, I do find it ironic he has a banner for BG in the background.


Yep,exactly! Every owner's manual I've seen says DO NOT use additives. I guess ol Pat hasn't read the Russian Honda owner's manual either where it recommends W30 (I have a pdf download of it). The only moron is Pat.

 

[BobsArmory]

Yep, I can't believe that he said that with a BG sign behind him!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by BobsArmory
Yep, I can't believe that he said that with a BG sign behind him!


+1 Although I guess money talks.

 

[Cujet]

While his is basically correct, In the aviation world, we deal in hard data. He is using logic to make the "bottom line" claim that repairing cars does not give anyone the knowledge to determine if a change in oil viscosity........ AND, logic does nothing to address known issues.

He also uses the claim that clearances are tighter. That's also not a universal truth. Clearances may be slightly tighter on main bearings on some engines at just under a thou up to 1.5, but main bearings are generally not problematic. Typical rod bearing clearances remain at or around the modern industry standard of 0.0011 to 0.0020 inches. Both remain at typical wear limits of just over 0.0035 inches. There is no magic with engines. Never has been. There is little good reason to make clearances ultra tight.

Let's deal in facts. With the exception of some high perf engines, bearings are not the problem today. Rings, timing chains and oil ring land coking, and on Fords, cam phasers are the common problems. It's here where we can make a difference by providing clean, quality oil of sufficient viscosity for the operating environment.

FACT: following Ford's 5W-30 10,0000 mile oil change recommendation on 3.5L ecoboost engines is a recipe for timing chain wear and an expensive repair. Those guys doing the job know what works, and what does not. So, maybe the guy doing the repair, knows something after all.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by benjy
he is being politically correct but incorrect IMO


Well said....no mention of CAFE he's just spewing the party line. I used to respect him because:


Originally Posted by Silverado12
He was a really good mechanic back in his day. My brother in law used him in the 1970s when he lived in Prince George's County.


But I think his time is past. Motor Week has always been a good show, I've enjoyed it from the 80's.

 

[Gebo]

Well, why do foreign countries allow for thicker oil in my cars?

Buncha morons and imbeciles....LOL


Let me add, I have never listened to this guy before but does he have the same credentials as MoleKule or dnewton3? I don't think so....

 

[DweezilAZ]

'Engineers spec the oil for new cars and through the warranty period. After 200,000 miles the clearance between parts will increase. Don't see a problem using thicker oil on higher mileage engines.'

That's what I thought, Atikovi. Those exact tolerances change over time and mileage.

Trust the same engineers who gave us Dex-Cool ? Northstars, Mopar's 2.7 V6 ? Toyota and it's sludgers ? Rice paper head gaskets ? Plastic timing chain tensioners ? Too many blue ribbon examples to consider.

Yes, I get it, Mr Goss: use the manufacturer's recommendation. But engineers as unassailable saints ? In your eye.

 

[DweezilAZ]

Originally Posted by gizzsdad
I also question the statement that engines are designed to a specific oil parameter.

I would guess that the engine is designed for power/torque/smoothness/reliability goals. Then an oil is chosen based on what the oil is required to do in THAT engine.

We also need to remember that many Owners Manuals spec several different "acceptable " oils for varying conditions.

+100

As well: the oil companies develop the oils, not the manufacturers

 

[gfh77665]

Pat is a good guy who does offer a lot of good advice. He is just out of his element on this one.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by gfh77665
Pat did not even mention CAFE.

Ignorent.

Ignorant.

 

[Egg_Head]

Originally Posted by Gebo
Well, why do foreign countries allow for thicker oil in my cars?

Buncha morons and imbeciles....LOL


eggzactly

 

[gfh77665]

Originally Posted by gfh77665
Pat did not even mention CAFE.


Pat is a good guy who does offer a lot of good advice. He is just out of his element on this one.

 

[edyvw]

Except mentioning moron, and two morons numerous times, he did not say anything new or constructive.
Yes, engineers know best what can go in engine. However, for example 2GR-FE in my Sienna is recommended for 0W20 oil, although same engine until 2011 was recommended for 5W30, and same engine in European market is recommended for HTHS 3.5 and up oils. Soooo, does that means that if I keep using 5W30 EP, I will damage engine bcs. it is too thick, but if I ship car to Europe, it will get damaged bcs. 5W30EP is too thin?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by javacontour
While I don't necessarily disagree with what he's saying, I do find it ironic he has a banner for BG in the background.

I see subtlety is not one of his strong suits, nor is being consistent. The part in the manual that says to use this viscosity and only this viscosity of this specification is correct in his mind. The line right below it that specifically prohibits any additives is meaningless to him, however.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by javacontour
Did the manufacturer call for BG products?

While I don't necessarily disagree with what he's saying, I do find it ironic he has a banner for BG in the background.


Yep,exactly! Every owner's manual I've seen says DO NOT use additives. I guess ol Pat hasn't read the Russian Honda owner's manual either where it recommends W30 (I have a pdf download of it). The only moron is Pat.



That's a fair point, but BG makes fuel injection cleaners and some of their oil additives are designed for cleaning engines that may not have been well maintained. So I don't think you can just dismiss him for that. To me BG is like Rislone, they make some fine products but their recommendations and marketing are way off promoting products that may have some value in some limited applications as every-OCI additives, which is outdated to say the least in this day and age...

 

[Shannow]

At 2:13, he started talking absolute drivel... I stopped there.

I find it funny that he called bull earlier on, thens spouts his own version of nonsense.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Pat did not even mention CAFE.

Ignorent.

Ignorant.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Pat did not even mention CAFE.


Pat is a good guy who does offer a lot of good advice. He is just out of his element on this one.



Well said. ^^^^^^^^

 

[MrWideTires]

Guys also make sure you also use the OEM recommended tires! Because the engineers carefully handpicked them and they know ABSOLUTE BEST! And always use the psi that's on the door regardless of driving conditions! ...‚

Make sure you also only repair your cars with dealer priced OEM parts!! They were carefully engineered alongside your car for most optimal functionality!!

You better also wash it with the oem branded car wash products they have at the dealer!! It's carefully formulated for the special paint in your cars!! Handpicked by paint experts that know better!

Does anybody where I can get 91 octane in Florida since it's recommended by the manufacturer?? I can only find 93 which is NOT OEM SPEC!!