Getting Geeky About Oil

[FartSquirrel]

I'm new here. Never seen this site before. Guess I've been under a wheel somewhere.

I am geeky about auto detailing. I drive the Queen nuts because I'll research and shop for tires for a couple months. And I'm getting geeky about vehicle fluids.

My 60yrs has given me the opinion that I don't think there is a "best" engine oil. Some that I would say are most likely better than others. Probably some you definitely shouldn't use in a Toy you care about.

My understanding is each mfg has their own recipie of additives they add to the base oil. Is there a website that breaks down what additives are added to which mfgs oils, and the quantities of such? As well as what an ideal range of said additives would be?

I would think each mfg, due to their additive packages, will have strengths and weakness when compared to another mfgs oil. Brand A may be better then brand B due to additive X, but brand B is better because of additive Y. And so on.

Maybe I'm overthinking it as well. But this what I want to learn.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to crawling around the forum here over the next several weeks and learning what I can about my new geeky interest.

 

[Foxtrot08]

It’s fun to be geeky about oil. Even professionally, it’s fun.

As someone who’s literally grown up in this business, is in this business in the largest way possible, and makes their entire career about it.

My advice? Don't take things too seriously. Sure. There’s differences. But see the forest, not the tree.

 

[ecotourist]

What are you driving?

 

[MolaKule]

...My understanding is each mfg has their own recipie of additives they add to the base oil. Is there a website that breaks down what additives are added to which mfgs oils, and the quantities of such? As well as what an ideal range of said additives would be?...

There is no such website since lubricant manufacturer's formulations are proprietary.

Some of the chemistry used in DI additive mixes are listed here in post #10:

Thread 'Additives XII-Multifunctional additives'

Jul 1, 2003

As a review of additives, let us do this:

Name at least one additive that functions in more than role. That is, name one or more of the Multifunctional additives.

[ July 21, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

• MolaKule
• Replies: 43
• Forum: Question of the Day

 

[kschachn]

My understanding is each mfg has their own recipie of additives they add to the base oil. Is there a website that breaks down what additives are added to which mfgs oils, and the quantities of such? As well as what an ideal range of said additives would be?

I would think each mfg, due to their additive packages, will have strengths and weakness when compared to another mfgs oil. Brand A may be better then brand B due to additive X, but brand B is better because of additive Y. And so on.

Even if there were such a thing that wouldn’t help you. Are you able to predict future performance based on additive levels? Do you understand the quantitative difference in performance (whatever that may mean) between different but atomically similar additives without a comprehensive engine test?

This question gets asked a lot on here and the answer is still no. What you do have are the licenses, certifications and approvals the oil holds or does not hold. Those give an indication of performance.

 

[FartSquirrel]

It’s fun to be geeky about oil. Even professionally, it’s fun.

As someone who’s literally grown up in this business, is in this business in the largest way possible, and makes their entire career about it.

My advice? Don't take things too seriously. Sure. There’s differences. But see the forest, not the tree.

Not too seriously. Just for fun.

Years ago I did my own unscientific scientific test.

Dunno why I got the results I did, but it was interesting. About 35yrs ago, I was driving enough I was changing the oil every 2 months. So I would get 1qt of each brand for that service, and fill up a small baby food jar with a brand. I would put the lid on, write the brand and date, and then put it in the sunshine of a window of the garage.
Most turned black as black paint within a year. Some of the "cheaper" brands turned black within weeks. Mobil 1, Castrol, and Havoline got dark, but even after a couple years, these three never did turn black like all the others.
What this means, I have no idea. But it was fun showing off the results. I eventually had enough little baby food jars of the oils, I used them all for an oil change.

What are you driving?

2015 GMC Sierra Denali with 6.2 (for now)
2023 Acura MDX ASpec
1972 Chevelle, aka The Baby

There is no such website since lubricant manufacturer's formulations are proprietary.

Some of the chemistry used in DI additive mixes are listed here in post #10:

Thread 'Additives XII-Multifunctional additives'

Jul 1, 2003

As a review of additives, let us do this:

Name at least one additive that functions in more than role. That is, name one or more of the Multifunctional additives.

[ July 21, 2003, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

• MolaKule
• Replies: 43
• Forum: Question of the Day

Thanks. I'll look thru that here in a bit.

 

[kschachn]

Dunno why I got the results I did, but it was interesting. About 35yrs ago, I was driving enough I was changing the oil every 2 months. So I would get 1qt of each brand for that service, and fill up a small baby food jar with a brand. I would put the lid on, write the brand and date, and then put it in the sunshine of a window of the garage.
Most turned black as black paint within a year. Some of the "cheaper" brands turned black within weeks. Mobil 1, Castrol, and Havoline got dark, but even after a couple years, these three never did turn black like all the others.

I’d say the conclusion is that if you keep the sun from shining inside your engine you should be okay.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Not too seriously. Just for fun.

Years ago I did my own unscientific scientific test.

Dunno why I got the results I did, but it was interesting. About 35yrs ago, I was driving enough I was changing the oil every 2 months. So I would get 1qt of each brand for that service, and fill up a small baby food jar with a brand. I would put the lid on, write the brand and date, and then put it in the sunshine of a window of the garage.
Most turned black as black paint within a year. Some of the "cheaper" brands turned black within weeks. Mobil 1, Castrol, and Havoline got dark, but even after a couple years, these three never did turn black like all the others.
What this means, I have no idea. But it was fun showing off the results. I eventually had enough little baby food jars of the oils, I used them all for an oil change.

I’m at a loss of words, maybe it’s the lack of caffeine currently. But if you’re having fun - awesome. That’s what life is about.

 

[Urshurak776]

@kschachn I spit my coffee out on your sun remark! Too early for this!

 

[Tom NJ]

Years ago I did my own unscientific scientific test.

Dunno why I got the results I did, but it was interesting. About 35yrs ago, I was driving enough I was changing the oil every 2 months. So I would get 1qt of each brand for that service, and fill up a small baby food jar with a brand. I would put the lid on, write the brand and date, and then put it in the sunshine of a window of the garage.
Most turned black as black paint within a year. Some of the "cheaper" brands turned black within weeks. Mobil 1, Castrol, and Havoline got dark, but even after a couple years, these three never did turn black like all the others.
What this means, I have no idea.

Some anti-oxidant additives, especially some aminic types, are photosensitive and change color with sunlight. It has no affect on performance.

 

[FartSquirrel]

Already have one Dew down, second one open. So it's not lack of caffeine

 

[ATex7239]

Specification as it relates to application, availability, value. I like learning new things and understanding how they operate and function. However, the above are all I can really control or should care about when making decisions… rest of it is out of my hands as a consumer.

 

[ecotourist]

My 60yrs has given me the opinion that I don't think there is a "best" engine oil. Some that I would say are most likely better than others. Probably some you definitely shouldn't use in a Toy you care about.

My understanding is each mfg has their own recipe of additives they add to the base oil. Is there a website that breaks down what additives are added to which mfgs oils, and the quantities of such? As well as what an ideal range of said additives would be?

I would think each mfg, due to their additive packages, will have strengths and weakness when compared to another mfgs oil. Brand A may be better then brand B due to additive X, but brand B is better because of additive Y.

If you're driving something fairly ordinary (most Toyotas, Hondas, GMs, etc) none of this matters very much. Buy the cheapest brand name API rated oil specified in your owners manual (SN, BMW LL-01, etc) in the recommended grade (5W-30, etc) and change it at a reasonable interval (5,000 miles/6 months probably) and you'll never have a failure due to motor oil in 250,000, probaby 500,000, and maybe 1,000,000 miles.

If you're driving a Bugatti, a Lamborghini, a Pagani, or something like that, or racing custom built stuff it might matter. Might.

 

[FartSquirrel]

I appreciate the info. I'm slowly going thru the thread @MolaKule provided. Thank you, again. Looking at each additive to see why, how and what their job is.

I guess what got me on this is I have a 2015 Sierra with a 6.2 and the annoying lifter tick. At 60k I had the left bank replaced under warranty. Now have 84k.

Whilst lurking on another forum, I came across posts saying they too had the tick, and it went away when they switched from Mobil 1 to Castrol GTX. I've ran Mobil 1 for over 30yrs. No I'm not one of the Mobil 1 only folk. Never had a reason to change. So I tried the Castrol. Sure enough, my engine was quieter. Ok. So did it really change or was it strictly psychological because I expected it.

I've gone back and forth a couple times now. Sure enough, it seems the engine was quieter. Still unsure, I had changed back to Castrol a week before my son came for a visit. We were going to go shooting and we took my truck. As soon as I started it he asked if I had gotten it fixed as it was quieter. He knew nothing of the Castrol idea nor that I had even changed my oil, or when.

Since I'm running the recommended 0w-20 in both brands, I figured it had to be an additive package in one of them that was making the difference. Thats my reason for my interest.

Am I wrong?

 

[MolaKule]

I guess what got me on this is I have a 2015 Sierra with a 6.2 and the annoying lifter tick. At 60k I had the left bank replaced under warranty. Now have 84k.

Left bank what-the head? And did that stop the tick? I am confused about your timeline.

Since I'm running the recommended 0w-20 in both brands, I figured it had to be an additive package in one of them that was making the difference. Thats my reason for my interest.

Am I wrong?

5W20 is also a 20 grade so why not use that grade? It has less VII to shear down.

 

[FartSquirrel]

Yes, left head. Tick did not stop. But was much better due to damaged parts got replaced. Otherwise tick is "normal".

5w-20 is ok though OM says 0w-20? This is why I'm wanting to learn.

Thank you.

Edit to add;
Queens '23 Acura also is 0w-20. It was nice just always having everything the same weight. Could I also use the 5w-20 in it as well?

 

[MolaKule]

Yes, left head. Tick did not stop. But was much better due to damaged parts got replaced. Otherwise tick is "normal".

So the dealer or shop did not replace the head for a new one but replaced damaged parts. Which parts?

So is the tick now coming from the other head bank?

5w-20 is ok though OM says 0w-20? This is why I'm wanting to learn.

Thank you.

Edit to add;
Queens '23 Acura also is 0w-20. It was nice just always having everything the same weight. Could I also use the 5w-20 in it as well?

Yes, since it is a 20 grade with the same 100C viscosity.

Your truck's owners manual should show the grades versus temperature range of operation.

 

[FartSquirrel]

Not the entire head. Only lifters and a couple valves were bent.

Per the mechanics. The tick is normal in GM engines with AFM

 

[MolaKule]

Not the entire head. Only lifters and a couple valves were bent.

Per the mechanics. The tick is normal in GM engines with AFM

Did you mean to say the pushrods were bent? What was the reason given for the bent pushrods?

 

[Kalle.J]

Yes, left head. Tick did not stop. But was much better due to damaged parts got replaced. Otherwise tick is "normal".

5w-20 is ok though OM says 0w-20? This is why I'm wanting to learn.

Thank you.

Edit to add;
Queens '23 Acura also is 0w-20. It was nice just always having everything the same weight. Could I also use the 5w-20 in it as well?

Ohh you still have so much to learn about owners manuals

Yes 0W/5W are interchangeable unless you live north of Canada.